Who uses Java?

Discussion in 'Java' started by Jon Harrop, Mar 9, 2008.

  1. Jon Harrop

    Jon Harrop Guest

    I have heard many times before that Java is the world's most common
    programming language. I checked this out and it certainly seems to be true:
    there are a huge number of Java programmers out there. However, I have no
    idea what exactly they build with Java. The only software I have ever used
    that is written in Java is (to the best of my knowledge) OpenOffice, Tribal
    Trouble and Eclipse. And I only used Eclipse to develop Java code...

    I have one friend who is a bioinformatician and uses Java exclusively. I met
    another friend recently and he corroborated my view, saying that he didn't
    know anyone who used Java and had never come across an employer who wanted
    a Java programmer (he is currently looking at jobs in quantitative finance
    but his recent background is in web analytics).

    So where is Java used in industry?

    --
    Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd.
    http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/?u
     
    Jon Harrop, Mar 9, 2008
    #1
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  2. Jon Harrop

    Peter Duniho Guest

    On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 15:54:39 -0700, Jon Harrop <>
    wrote:

    > [...]
    > So where is Java used in industry?


    Just a warning to would-be respondents to this post:

    My impression of Harrop is one of a religious follower of the F# language
    and borderline troll. Any regular in this newsgroup already knows the
    widespread use of Java, and it's my opinion, based on observation of
    Harrop's behavior in the C# newsgroup, that he's not genuinely interested
    in any true answer to his question. Instead, this will likely devolve
    into some attempt to indict Java as not being appropriate or useful,
    proposing F# as the "right" language.

    I recommend spending at least a little time with Google Groups reviewing
    his past posts before you jump in to answer his question here. If after
    that, you still feel he's got a serious, worthwhile question, by all means
    reply in kind.

    Pete
     
    Peter Duniho, Mar 9, 2008
    #2
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  3. Jon Harrop

    Jeff Higgins Guest

    Jon Harrop wrote:
    >
    > I have heard many times before that Java is the world's most common
    > programming language. I checked this out and it certainly seems to be
    > true:
    > there are a huge number of Java programmers out there. However, I have no
    > idea what exactly they build with Java. The only software I have ever used
    > that is written in Java is (to the best of my knowledge) OpenOffice,
    > Tribal
    > Trouble and Eclipse. And I only used Eclipse to develop Java code...
    >
    > I have one friend who is a bioinformatician and uses Java exclusively. I
    > met
    > another friend recently and he corroborated my view, saying that he didn't
    > know anyone who used Java and had never come across an employer who wanted
    > a Java programmer (he is currently looking at jobs in quantitative finance
    > but his recent background is in web analytics).
    >
    > So where is Java used in industry?
    >


    Will you reiterate your academic credentials?
     
    Jeff Higgins, Mar 9, 2008
    #3
  4. Jon Harrop

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    Jon Harrop wrote:
    > I have heard many times before that Java is the world's most common
    > programming language. I checked this out and it certainly seems to be true:
    > there are a huge number of Java programmers out there. However, I have no
    > idea what exactly they build with Java. The only software I have ever used
    > that is written in Java is (to the best of my knowledge) OpenOffice, Tribal
    > Trouble and Eclipse. And I only used Eclipse to develop Java code...
    >
    > I have one friend who is a bioinformatician and uses Java exclusively. I met
    > another friend recently and he corroborated my view, saying that he didn't
    > know anyone who used Java and had never come across an employer who wanted
    > a Java programmer (he is currently looking at jobs in quantitative finance
    > but his recent background is in web analytics).
    >
    > So where is Java used in industry?


    www.dice.com

    search on Java and start reading !

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, Mar 9, 2008
    #4
  5. Jon Harrop

    Jon Harrop Guest

    Jeff Higgins wrote:
    > Will you reiterate your academic credentials?


    BA, MA, MSci, PhD in natural sciences (physics and chemistry) from the
    University of Cambridge.

    --
    Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd.
    http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/?u
     
    Jon Harrop, Mar 10, 2008
    #5
  6. Jon Harrop

    Jon Harrop Guest

    Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    > www.dice.com
    >
    > search on Java and start reading !


    Thanks for the link.

    Just ploughing through a few of these they all seem to be in the US. Is that
    representative of Java or just of this website? Does Java have a higher
    market share of languages in the US than it does in Europe?

    There are lots of foreign keywords: JSF, EJB, Struts, JSP, RDBMS, ESRI
    GIS/ArcIMS, ArcSDE, JDBC, Spring, Hibernate, iSeries...

    I get the impression that many are database and XML related and few are GUI
    related. That surprises me: I thought cross-platform GUIs were a major
    selling point of Java.

    Has anyone collated overall demographics on who programs in Java, where and
    what sorts of programs they write?

    --
    Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd.
    http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/?u
     
    Jon Harrop, Mar 10, 2008
    #6
  7. Jon Harrop

    Karl Guest

    "Peter Duniho" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    > On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 15:54:39 -0700, Jon Harrop <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> [...]
    >> So where is Java used in industry?

    >
    > Just a warning to would-be respondents to this post:
    >
    > My impression of Harrop is one of a religious follower of the F# language
    > and borderline troll. Any regular in this newsgroup already knows the
    > widespread use of Java, and it's my opinion, based on observation of
    > Harrop's behavior in the C# newsgroup, that he's not genuinely interested
    > in any true answer to his question. Instead, this will likely devolve
    > into some attempt to indict Java as not being appropriate or useful,
    > proposing F# as the "right" language.
    >
    > I recommend spending at least a little time with Google Groups reviewing
    > his past posts before you jump in to answer his question here. If after
    > that, you still feel he's got a serious, worthwhile question, by all means
    > reply in kind.


    F#? Now that's a new one on me. We certainly have a plethora of ways to
    program computers, eh? Having professionally developed in ASM, C, C++, Java
    and C#, I must say Java is my personal favorite, but that's just me. I have
    my reasons, but they might not be appropriate for all applications.

    One language seems to become dominant every few years, but it really doesn't
    matter what anyone says. It usually happens organically, and there isn't
    anything anyone can do about it.
     
    Karl, Mar 10, 2008
    #7
  8. Jon Harrop wrote:
    > So where is Java used in industry?


    Matlab uses it. Mathematic uses it. I think Maple may be using it as
    well. Between the three of them, that's an awful lot of usage of Java.

    Google uses it in part (along with a bajillion other languages).

    All applets use Java; therefore, many online games use Java.

    The IDA group at NRL uses it exclusively. I believe the U.S. government
    and military use it heavily.

    In summary: more or less in all fields.

    --
    Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not
    tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth
     
    Joshua Cranmer, Mar 10, 2008
    #8
  9. Jon Harrop wrote:
    > There are lots of foreign keywords: JSF, EJB, Struts, JSP, RDBMS, ESRI
    > GIS/ArcIMS, ArcSDE, JDBC, Spring, Hibernate, iSeries...


    Wow. You really don't know anything about Java, do you?

    > I get the impression that many are database and XML related and few are GUI
    > related. That surprises me: I thought cross-platform GUIs were a major
    > selling point of Java.


    Try calling ESRI GIS not GUI related. If you don't know, GIS software is
    heavily used in... just about every environmental science field and
    every civil planner's office?

    --
    Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not
    tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth
     
    Joshua Cranmer, Mar 10, 2008
    #9
  10. Jon Harrop

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    Jon Harrop wrote:
    > Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    >> www.dice.com
    >>
    >> search on Java and start reading !

    >
    > Thanks for the link.
    >
    > Just ploughing through a few of these they all seem to be in the US. Is that
    > representative of Java or just of this website?


    It is a US job site, so surprisingly it has only US jobs.

    You will need to find the similar job sites for other countries.

    I can give you one for Denmark www.itjobworld.dk - but it need someone
    that knows the country to know what the right web site for IT jobs
    are.

    > Does Java have a higher
    > market share of languages in the US than it does in Europe?


    I don't think so.

    I would expect countries with many small companies to use a bit less
    Java than countries with fewer big companies though.

    > There are lots of foreign keywords: JSF, EJB, Struts, JSP, RDBMS, ESRI
    > GIS/ArcIMS, ArcSDE, JDBC, Spring, Hibernate, iSeries...


    You can look them up in Wikipedia. It is basically either standards
    or products with some relevance to the Java world.

    > I get the impression that many are database and XML related and few are GUI
    > related. That surprises me: I thought cross-platform GUIs were a major
    > selling point of Java.


    Most Java GUI's are web GUI's.

    Desktop GUI apps are made (the keywords are: AWT, Swing and SWT), but
    web GUI's are more used.

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, Mar 10, 2008
    #10
  11. Jon Harrop

    Mark Space Guest

    Joshua Cranmer wrote:

    > All applets use Java; therefore, many online games use Java.


    Most web games seem to be written in Flash these days, and generally
    Flash seems to be displacing Java Applets as the "web desktop"
    programming language of choice. I wish this were not true, but that
    appears to be the case.
     
    Mark Space, Mar 10, 2008
    #11
  12. Jon Harrop

    Jon Harrop Guest

    Karl wrote:
    > F#? Now that's a new one on me. We certainly have a plethora of ways to
    > program computers, eh? Having professionally developed in ASM, C, C++,
    > Java and C#, I must say Java is my personal favorite, but that's just me.
    > I have my reasons, but they might not be appropriate for all applications.
    >
    > One language seems to become dominant every few years, but it really
    > doesn't matter what anyone says. It usually happens organically, and there
    > isn't anything anyone can do about it.


    F# is largely about interactive programming (like MATLAB), native interop to
    Microsoft products via .NET (like Excel) and a very high-level programming
    language (first-class lexical closures, pattern matching over algebraic
    datatypes and so on). Technical users are a primary market and they
    conventionally use Fortran/C and MATLAB/Mathematica rather than Java.

    I used to use C++ and Mathematica for technical computing. Now I'm writing
    software for technical users in OCaml, C# and F#. I keep toying with the
    idea of diversifying into Java.

    My only direct exposure to Java has been writing OCaml code to generate
    100kLOC of (unidiomatic) Java bindings to XenServer a couple of years ago,
    so that Java programmers could use the product. I did try to get into Java
    programming then but found it extremely difficult.

    --
    Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd.
    http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/?u
     
    Jon Harrop, Mar 10, 2008
    #12
  13. Jon Harrop

    Jon Harrop Guest

    Joshua Cranmer wrote:
    > Jon Harrop wrote:
    >> So where is Java used in industry?

    >
    > Matlab uses it. Mathematic uses it. I think Maple may be using it as
    > well. Between the three of them, that's an awful lot of usage of Java.


    Ah yes, of course. I worked at Wolfram Research when they were building
    their Java stuff and saw some demos of it but never saw the final thing. I
    believe they have some kind of GUI builder that targets either Java or the
    JVM directly?

    The MathWorks were kind enough to give me a free copy of MATLAB because I am
    a book author. Where is the Java in MATLAB? They seem to have a MATLAB to
    Java compiler:

    http://www.mathworks.com/products/javabuilder/

    Is there a more integral part of MATLAB that is written in Java?

    > Google uses it in part (along with a bajillion other languages).


    Is it all behind the scenes?

    > The IDA group at NRL uses it exclusively.


    I don't know who they are, sorry.

    > I believe the U.S. government and military use it heavily.


    Do you know what they use it for?

    --
    Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd.
    http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/?u
     
    Jon Harrop, Mar 10, 2008
    #13
  14. Jon Harrop

    Jeff Higgins Guest

    Jon Harrop wrote:
    >
    >
    > So where is Java used in industry?
    >


    Ask Ms. Ann
    <www.trinityconsultancy.com>
     
    Jeff Higgins, Mar 10, 2008
    #14
  15. Jon Harrop <> writes:

    > I get the impression that many are database and XML related and few are GUI
    > related. That surprises me: I thought cross-platform GUIs were a major
    > selling point of Java.


    I won't pretend to know what everybody is doing, but from where I sit,
    the primary advantage of Java is cross-platform *server* software (i.e.
    J2EE servers or web containers) running on anything from low-end PC's
    to heavy server iron.

    You then make rich clients for your server application, but they are
    typically for a specific customer who are happy to specify, e.g.,
    clients to run on Windows with a screen size of 1024x768.

    /L
    --
    Lasse Reichstein Nielsen -
    DHTML Death Colors: <URL:http://www.infimum.dk/HTML/rasterTriangleDOM.html>
    'Faith without judgement merely degrades the spirit divine.'
     
    Lasse Reichstein Nielsen, Mar 10, 2008
    #15
  16. Jon Harrop

    Jon Harrop Guest

    Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    > Jon Harrop wrote:
    >> Just ploughing through a few of these they all seem to be in the US. Is
    >> that representative of Java or just of this website?

    >
    > It is a US job site, so surprisingly it has only US jobs.


    Ah, ok.

    >> Does Java have a higher
    >> market share of languages in the US than it does in Europe?

    >
    > I don't think so.
    >
    > I would expect countries with many small companies to use a bit less
    > Java than countries with fewer big companies though.


    I see. So Java is used predominantly in large companies for database work
    and (guessing) intranet web services. Presumably that might be anything
    from software to run vets practices to airline ticket reservation systems
    and so forth?

    >> There are lots of foreign keywords: JSF, EJB, Struts, JSP, RDBMS, ESRI
    >> GIS/ArcIMS, ArcSDE, JDBC, Spring, Hibernate, iSeries...

    >
    > You can look them up in Wikipedia. It is basically either standards
    > or products with some relevance to the Java world.


    Ok.

    >> I get the impression that many are database and XML related and few are
    >> GUI related. That surprises me: I thought cross-platform GUIs were a
    >> major selling point of Java.

    >
    > Most Java GUI's are web GUI's.


    I see.

    > Desktop GUI apps are made (the keywords are: AWT, Swing and SWT), but
    > web GUI's are more used.


    What are the relevant keywords for web GUIs?

    Many thanks,
    --
    Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd.
    http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/?u
     
    Jon Harrop, Mar 10, 2008
    #16
  17. Jon Harrop

    Lew Guest

    Jon Harrop wrote:
    >> I believe the U.S. government and military use it heavily.

    >
    > Do you know what they use it for?


    Typical non-military uses are to drive web sites for the public to submit
    forms such as mandatory filings or applications for benefits, and to provide
    the middleware to interact with big-iron COBOL systems. There is quite a bit
    of activity in web services, also, much of which is on Java Enterprise Edition
    platforms. Typical uses include interagency communication of shared case
    information.

    Sniffing around the Web I've also found major corporations that use Java for
    their web applications. IBM comes to mind.

    Just searching now for Java-based web sites, I found www.nyc.gov
    <http://www.nyc.gov/portal/site/nycgov/?front_door=true>

    --
    Lew
     
    Lew, Mar 10, 2008
    #17
  18. Jon Harrop wrote:
    > I have heard many times before that Java is the world's most common
    > programming language. I checked this out and it certainly seems to be true:
    > there are a huge number of Java programmers out there. However, I have no
    > idea what exactly they build with Java. The only software I have ever used
    > that is written in Java is (to the best of my knowledge) OpenOffice, Tribal
    > Trouble and Eclipse. And I only used Eclipse to develop Java code...
    >
    > I have one friend who is a bioinformatician and uses Java exclusively. I met
    > another friend recently and he corroborated my view, saying that he didn't
    > know anyone who used Java and had never come across an employer who wanted
    > a Java programmer (he is currently looking at jobs in quantitative finance
    > but his recent background is in web analytics).
    >
    > So where is Java used in industry?
    >


    My company (http://www.optrak.co.uk) produces vehicle routing software
    which is written largely in Java. The bits which aren't in Java are for
    historical reasons and will eventually disappear.

    Mark Thornton
     
    Mark Thornton, Mar 10, 2008
    #18
  19. Jon Harrop

    motosauro Guest


    > > Desktop GUI apps are made (the keywords are: AWT, Swing and SWT), but
    > > web GUI's are more used.

    >
    > What are the relevant keywords for web GUIs?
    >
    > Many thanks,
    > --
    > Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd.http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/?u


    jsp, jsf
     
    motosauro, Mar 10, 2008
    #19
  20. Jon Harrop

    Jon Harrop Guest

    Lasse Reichstein Nielsen wrote:
    > Jon Harrop <> writes:
    >> I get the impression that many are database and XML related and few are
    >> GUI related. That surprises me: I thought cross-platform GUIs were a
    >> major selling point of Java.

    >
    > I won't pretend to know what everybody is doing, but from where I sit,
    > the primary advantage of Java is cross-platform *server* software (i.e.
    > J2EE servers or web containers) running on anything from low-end PC's
    > to heavy server iron.


    That's interesting. I hadn't thought that being cross-platform would be an
    advantage for servers. Is that because you don't want to be tied to MS? Are
    there any Linux-only competitors?

    --
    Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd.
    http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/?u
     
    Jon Harrop, Mar 10, 2008
    #20
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