Why top posting is considered wrong?

J

Jonathan N. Little

And what happens with subsequent postings that refer the things in
previous messages, not just the most adjacent? Do I post here
Of course there is a fine line between harmless and
annoying top-posting. Good judgement is key.

Or down here? Although originally the conversation may be short enough
not to cause too much confusion, but later down the road...

And how much is okay to top post > 20 words, 50 words, 100 words?
Depending on *your* viewport how much can be displayed without scrolling
can differ. Since most individuals digest conversations basically
linearly from start to finish (at least the one that tend to keep their
facts straight) and all cultures of the world read from top to bottom
(left and right is another issue) would it not make sense to be
consistent? Eh?
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

Neredbojias said:
With neither quill nor qualm, Sid Ismail quothed:


Will never happen 100%. Some guys always try to stick it to the boss,
others to the ladies.

What! You were lying when you told her that you loved her for her brains?
 
H

Harlan Messinger

192.168.0.1 said:
It doesn't make a sense to me!

When you see the subject and you've read the first post, than if, you
want to answer, my logic tells me, that instead a force users to scroll
down and find (sometimes very far from the top!) these 3 words I was
looking for, better put it on the top!

Following your logic a little further, if you're *assuming* that someone
reading your post has already read the posts preceding it, then there
isn't any reason to be quoting the preceding posts in your post, and
you'd omit them altogether.

But the reason for including [relevant portions of] previous posts in
yours is because a large part of the time people aren't following
threads from start to finish in linear fashion. People come and go from
newsgroups and may have downloaded your post after the earliest posts in
the thread have already disappeared from their news server. Or they may
have come across your post in a search, and haven't read all the
preceding posts.

So there's a good reason to included relevant preceding material in your
own posts for the sake of providing context without forcing the user to
find earlier posts that may not even be available any more. OK, now that
we've established that people may be deriving the context for your
comments entirely from the material you're quoting from earlier
messages, don't you think it's easier for them to get that context if
they can read the material in a sensible order?

The key is:

1. Trim earlier material not necessary for understanding the context
behind your response.

2. If placing your entire response after the quoted material would leave
it clear which part of the quoted material each of your points relates
to, then place it at the end.

3. Otherwise, place each of your points after the preceding material to
which it responds.

[snip]
When I see a someone posting an answer on the top, what a relief.
Don't have to scroll down!

Oh, yeah, what an arduous burden scrolling is! Sometimes I scroll so
much I have to take a nap afterwards.
Easier and faster, especially, when the previous message is long and
whole, which is wrong as well IMHO.

If you are going to assume that the user isn't going to read all that
text, then why are you wasting space including it? Leave it out. That's
another problem with Usenet responses--people who don't trim previous
posts, polluting every message with the entirety of the thread, taking
up space, and obscuring the message.
When I see someone top posting, I do appreciate because I know, that
under his (her) post is nothing I didn't read before. When someone is
answering on certain elements of the post, that's entire different story.

In addition to what I said above, you're not thinking ahead. You're
ignoring what happens when other people respond to you, and other people
respond to them. What if *they* are answering certain elements of your
posts and subsequent ones? In that case, *they* will place their
responses after the relevant portions. So your contribution is above the
preceding material, and their contributions are below the material to
which they relate. The result is a post that isn't in any order at all.
I think I will top post regardless opinions of others because... I like
that way!

Are you posting for your own comprehension or for the comprehension of
others?
 
G

Greg N.

Els said:
You're avoiding the question

Not at all. I said, good judgement is key. You need that remark
explained in detail? Ok.

I have no sympathy for pedantic boneheads. A top-posted sentence or two
in response to a sentence or two of a [well snipped] question is
certainly nothing that justifies a discomposed "don't top post" dunning.

But, if you're replying to a lengthy, probably nested, quote, top
posting is a bad idea.

Sorry, I can't clearly define the border line between the two.
As I said, it's a matter of good judgement.
 
D

David Dorward

Els said:
Like so? All of this message is in one view on my monitor.
You reckon it makes sense?

It isn't on my newsreader window ... and I don't notice the top posted
section anyway, I'm used to looking for the first black text under the
green[1] quoted material (since black text above quoted material is, 99
times in 100, just the "So and so said" line). Then when I get to the end,
discover that there isn't any new text, I have to actively look for it
before finding it at the top.


[1] my news reader does syntax highlighting
 
E

Els

Greg said:
I have no sympathy for pedantic boneheads. A top-posted sentence or two
in response to a sentence or two of a [well snipped] question is
certainly nothing that justifies a discomposed "don't top post" dunning.

It's stopping them before they start - condone 2 lines, and the next
time they top post on a lengthy post they'll point to the others that
are all toppposting: "I thought it was the convention here".
But, if you're replying to a lengthy, probably nested, quote, top
posting is a bad idea.

Sorry, I can't clearly define the border line between the two.
As I said, it's a matter of good judgement.

And you are gonna teach that judgement to every newbie? While you
can't even pinpoint the border? It must be much easier to just always
bottom post. There is no excuse for top posting.
 
E

Els

David said:
It isn't on my newsreader window

Yup, I figured there'd be plenty of people who use smaller window
panes on their newsreaders. Just another motive for bottom posting
always and all the time :)
... and I don't notice the top posted
section anyway, I'm used to looking for the first black text under the
green[1] quoted material (since black text above quoted material is, 99
times in 100, just the "So and so said" line). Then when I get to the end,
discover that there isn't any new text, I have to actively look for it
before finding it at the top.
Indeed.

[1] my news reader does syntax highlighting

Mine too, but it's pink, not green ;-)
 
T

Toby Inkster

Jonathan said:
all cultures of the world read from top to bottom

There are a few scripts -- e.g. for some Berber languages -- that read
bottom to top, but they've always been rare, and with the advent of
electronic communications, are becoming even rarer, as very little
software allows for bottom-to-top scripts.
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

Toby said:
There are a few scripts -- e.g. for some Berber languages -- that read
bottom to top, but they've always been rare, and with the advent of
electronic communications, are becoming even rarer, as very little
software allows for bottom-to-top scripts.

Dammit Toby! You had to find one exception to blur the point! :-D Even
on of the first written languages cuneiform of ancient Sumerians ran top
to bottom...
 
D

dorayme

Jonathan N. Little said:
Cannot help your shortcomings! An ya, most people read from top to
bottom on planet Earth.

Q1:...
A1:...

Q2:...
A2:...

Q3:...
A3:...

Jonathan! I would have expected you to lie low on this thread
after your recent personal admissions about dyslexia... But.
come to think of it, you perhaps justifiably feel more confident
with the vertical...

:)
 
N

Neredbojias

With neither quill nor qualm, Jonathan N. Little quothed:
What! You were lying when you told her that you loved her for her brains?

Not really. Smart girls are harder to fool.
 
D

dorayme

Greg N. said:
If a post and a quote are so short that they can both be grasped without
even rolling your eyeballs (normal reading comprehension assumed), top
posting is fine with me.

It is refreshing to see hard plain common sense.

But, in drafting advice to people in general, "Don't top post!"
is simpler than "Don't top post unless...."
 
D

dorayme

Els said:
Greg said:
I have no sympathy for pedantic boneheads. A top-posted sentence or two
in response to a sentence or two of a [well snipped] question is
certainly nothing that justifies a discomposed "don't top post" dunning. ....
Sorry, I can't clearly define the border line between the two.
As I said, it's a matter of good judgement.

And you are gonna teach that judgement to every newbie? While you
can't even pinpoint the border? It must be much easier to just always
bottom post. There is no excuse for top posting.

You are right about the teaching, about the soundness of the
policy but it is a stretch to say there is never an excuse for
top posting, surely Greg N is right about there being a
reasonable excuse sometimes. It may be unwise, but not without
excuse.
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

dorayme said:
Jonathan! I would have expected you to lie low on this thread
after your recent personal admissions about dyslexia... But.
come to think of it, you perhaps justifiably feel more confident
with the vertical...

:)

I see I miss the 'd' in "and' but what else did I miss?
 
N

Nik Coughlin

192.168.0.1 said:
It doesn't make a sense to me!

When you see the subject and you've read the first post, than if, you
want to answer, my logic tells me, that instead a force users to
scroll down and find (sometimes very far from the top!) these 3 words
I was looking for, better put it on the top!
<snip>

Why is driving on the other side of the road considered wrong?

It doesn't make sense to me!

Sometimes my side of the road is full, yet the other side, it's completely
clear!
 
D

dorayme

Jonathan! I would have expected you to lie low on this thread
after your recent personal admissions about dyslexia... But.
come to think of it, you perhaps justifiably feel more confident
with the vertical...

:)

I see I miss the 'd' in "and' but what else did I miss?[/QUOTE]

I don't think anything? Except perhaps the idea of a top/bottom
type of dyslexia. But come to think of it, I suppose in languages
that do not write across the page but up and down them, there
could be such a condition.
 
N

Neredbojias

With neither quill nor qualm, Nik Coughlin quothed:
<snip>

Why is driving on the other side of the road considered wrong?

It doesn't make sense to me!

Sometimes my side of the road is full, yet the other side, it's completely
clear!

Move to England.
 

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