xhtml: <image alt="blah blah" ... /> - what should it look like?

Discussion in 'XML' started by mark4asp, Jan 8, 2008.

  1. mark4asp

    mark4asp Guest

    <image alt="blah blah" ... /> - what should it look like?

    When I use <image alt="blah blah" ... />

    The alt value of an image tag is rendered inconsistently:
    * In Safari I see nothing. The alt value is ignored.
    * In IE6 I see a tooltip
    * In Firefox the alt attribute value is displayed on top of the image.
    With a small image the text overflows to the rhs.
    * In Opera the actual the alt attribute value is displayed on top of
    the image. With a small image the text is trucated within the width
    specified for the image.

    What's going on here? Do 3/4 of these browsers have bugs or is the
    xhtml specification missing something?

    The only sensible solution to this is for me to use blank alt tags
    <image alt="" ... /> and to use a title attribute instead.

    The empty alt tag is still needed because I want to use xhtml markup.
    However now my <asp:Image> [asp.net] tags are broke because when I when
    I specify them as <asp:Image AlternateText ="" ... /> they are rendered
    as <asp:Image ... /> i.e. with no alt tag at all.


    [FireFox 2.0.0.11, Opera 9.25, Build 8827, Safari 3.0.4 (523.13), IE 6
    sp6 (with latest updates) all running on WinXP sp2 with latest updates
    on asp.net 2 site using ms ajax.]
    mark4asp, Jan 8, 2008
    #1
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  2. mark4asp schrieb:
    > <image alt="blah blah" ... /> - what should it look like?


    Don't know. In XHTML there is no image element, it's called img. The img
    element's alt attribute is an _alternative_ for the image, to be
    rendered if the image itself is not rendered (e.g. in a text browser, a
    screen reader or voice browser, or when image rendereing is disabled in
    a graphical browser). If you want a tooltip, you may get it when adding
    a title attribute to the img element.

    --
    Johannes Koch
    In te domine speravi; non confundar in aeternum.
    (Te Deum, 4th cent.)
    Johannes Koch, Jan 8, 2008
    #2
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  3. mark4asp

    Pavel Lepin Guest

    Follow-ups to comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html

    mark4asp <> wrote in
    <4783548b$0$20530$>:
    > <image alt="blah blah" ... /> - what should it look like?


    The Recommendation doesn't specify what should it look like
    because alt attribute represents an alternate textual
    description for non-textual content in question, to be
    provided in environments where rendering of original
    content is impossible or undesirable (see HTML 4.01, 13.8).

    > The only sensible solution to this is for me to use blank
    > alt tags <image alt="" ... />...


    It's a Very Bad Practice.

    > ...and to use a title attribute instead.


    Note that 'instead' is not appropriate. Those attributes
    have different semantics (see 7.4.3) and therefore serve
    different purposes. title is purely optional, but alt is
    mandatory and should always be helpful. Note that the spec
    doesn't say what UA's must or even should do with the title
    attribute either.

    --
    ....also, I submit that we all must honourably commit seppuku
    right now rather than serve the Dark Side by producing the
    HTML 5 spec.
    Pavel Lepin, Jan 8, 2008
    #3
  4. mark4asp

    mark4asp Guest

    mark4asp wrote:

    > The empty alt tag is still needed because I want to use xhtml markup.
    > However now my <asp:Image> [asp.net] tags are broke because when I
    > when I specify them as <asp:Image AlternateText ="" ... /> they are
    > rendered as <asp:Image ... /> i.e. with no alt tag at all.
    >

    Sorry I meant to say:

    they are rendered as <img ... /> i.e. with no alt tag at all.
    mark4asp, Jan 8, 2008
    #4
  5. mark4asp

    mark4asp Guest

    Johannes Koch wrote:

    > mark4asp schrieb:
    > ><image alt="blah blah" ... /> - what should it look like?

    >
    > Don't know. In XHTML there is no image element, it's called img. The
    > img element's alt attribute is an alternative for the image, to be
    > rendered if the image itself is not rendered (e.g. in a text browser,
    > a screen reader or voice browser, or when image rendereing is
    > disabled in a graphical browser). If you want a tooltip, you may get
    > it when adding a title attribute to the img element.


    So you're saying that this is not fully dealt with in the xhtml
    specification? So that the various browser vendors can handle the alt
    value as they wish to? But in that case why does an <img> tag have to
    include an alt attribute - given that xhtml does care how (or even)
    whether the alt value rendered. That just seems daft to me.
    mark4asp, Jan 8, 2008
    #5
  6. Xpost and F'up comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html

    mark4asp schrieb:
    > Johannes Koch wrote:
    >
    >> mark4asp schrieb:
    >>> <image alt="blah blah" ... /> - what should it look like?

    >> Don't know. In XHTML there is no image element, it's called img. The
    >> img element's alt attribute is an alternative for the image, to be
    >> rendered if the image itself is not rendered (e.g. in a text browser,
    >> a screen reader or voice browser, or when image rendereing is
    >> disabled in a graphical browser). If you want a tooltip, you may get
    >> it when adding a title attribute to the img element.

    >
    > So you're saying that this is not fully dealt with in the xhtml
    > specification? So that the various browser vendors can handle the alt
    > value as they wish to?


    <http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/objects.html#adef-alt>:
    alt = text [CS]
    For user agents that cannot display images, forms, or applets, this
    attribute specifies alternate text. The language of the alternate text
    is specified by the lang attribute.

    > But in that case why does an <img> tag have to
    > include an alt attribute -


    Because not every browser can or will render the image itself. So a
    textual alternative is needed to be rendered instead.

    --
    Johannes Koch
    In te domine speravi; non confundar in aeternum.
    (Te Deum, 4th cent.)
    Johannes Koch, Jan 8, 2008
    #6
  7. According to HTML specs alt tag is used to show the picture's place when
    picture is not available (yet).

    So while browser still loading picture from the server the alt content will
    be shown to user so people with slow internet connection can get an idea
    what they are going to be looking at soon :)

    PS: First time I hear that firefox shows alt on top of the image. May be
    it's a setting in Firefox and you have it turned on because it's not the
    case usually.

    PPS: IE support tooltip attribute I believe. And I guess when it's not
    available it shows alt as a tool tip.

    George.

    "mark4asp" <> wrote in message
    news:4783548b$0$20530$...
    > <image alt="blah blah" ... /> - what should it look like?
    >
    > When I use <image alt="blah blah" ... />
    >
    > The alt value of an image tag is rendered inconsistently:
    > * In Safari I see nothing. The alt value is ignored.
    > * In IE6 I see a tooltip
    > * In Firefox the alt attribute value is displayed on top of the image.
    > With a small image the text overflows to the rhs.
    > * In Opera the actual the alt attribute value is displayed on top of
    > the image. With a small image the text is trucated within the width
    > specified for the image.
    >
    > What's going on here? Do 3/4 of these browsers have bugs or is the
    > xhtml specification missing something?
    >
    > The only sensible solution to this is for me to use blank alt tags
    > <image alt="" ... /> and to use a title attribute instead.
    >
    > The empty alt tag is still needed because I want to use xhtml markup.
    > However now my <asp:Image> [asp.net] tags are broke because when I when
    > I specify them as <asp:Image AlternateText ="" ... /> they are rendered
    > as <asp:Image ... /> i.e. with no alt tag at all.
    >
    >
    > [FireFox 2.0.0.11, Opera 9.25, Build 8827, Safari 3.0.4 (523.13), IE 6
    > sp6 (with latest updates) all running on WinXP sp2 with latest updates
    > on asp.net 2 site using ms ajax.]
    >
    George Ter-Saakov, Jan 8, 2008
    #7
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