Xhtml Strict

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Ganesh, Oct 26, 2006.

  1. Ganesh

    Ganesh Guest

    I want to start designing a website using XHTML strict.

    How should I start? I want to save time and get a good design as well.

    Ganesh
     
    Ganesh, Oct 26, 2006
    #1
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  2. Ganesh

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    "Ganesh" <> wrote:

    > I want to start designing a website using XHTML strict.
    >


    Are you sure this is a good idea?

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Oct 26, 2006
    #2
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  3. Ganesh

    Ganesh Guest

    dorayme wrote:
    > In article
    > <>,
    > "Ganesh" <> wrote:
    >
    > > I want to start designing a website using XHTML strict.
    > >

    >
    > Are you sure this is a good idea?
    >
    > --
    > dorayme


    Ofcourse... do you know any alternates.. keeping the w3c rules intact
     
    Ganesh, Oct 26, 2006
    #3
  4. Ganesh

    patrick j Guest

    On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 01:57:06 +0100, Ganesh wrote
    (in article <>):

    > I want to start designing a website using XHTML strict.
    >
    > How should I start? I want to save time and get a good design as well.


    Hi

    I returned to doing web-sites in the last few months having not done
    any at all for about five years.

    Initially I thought that XHTML was "the way to go" so I embarked upon
    doing everything with XHTML.

    However there are problems with XHTML, one of which I've encountered
    and there are lots of people in this forum who will describe in much
    more detail why XHTML may not be a good idea.

    The problem I've encountered is that the XHTML declaration at the very
    top:

    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?>

    seems to put IE 6 into "quirks mode". It might very well do this with
    other browsers as well I've only observed this with IE 6.

    The problem (I guess) is that the browser doesn't understand this very
    first statement and then says to itself "I must be dealing with a jolly
    bad HTML site here" and goes into a mode of operation which is
    anticipating problems.

    The reality seems to be that the browser's behaviour becomes
    unpredictable in some situations.

    So I have started doing everything in HTML 4.01.

    I think that it would be easy to change the XHTML in the future if I
    wanted to, if it did indeed become "the next big thing" because in fact
    all I think I need to do is change the headers at the top and do a
    find/replace on the ends some of the tags and that kind of thing.
    However XHTML demands that all tags are closed, it is very fussy in
    that respect, so I think that for me the thing I'm doing is just making
    sure all my tags in HTML 4.01 are closed and by this simple measure
    than I know that conversion to XHTML (if I wished) would be fairly
    simple.

    The most exciting thing about the writing HTML today is CSS. This is
    the massive change which has taken place in the period I have spent
    away from HTML. I feel that concentrating on CSS is very much the "way
    to go". If you are not familiar with CSS then you will find it great
    fun to explore :)

    --
    Patrick
    Brighton, UK

    <http://www.patrickjames.me.uk>
     
    patrick j, Oct 26, 2006
    #4
  5. Ganesh

    dp Guest

    Ganesh wrote:
    > I want to start designing a website using XHTML strict.
    >

    Why?

    --
    dp
     
    dp, Oct 26, 2006
    #5
  6. Ganesh

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    "Ganesh" <> wrote:

    > dorayme wrote:
    > > In article
    > > <>,
    > > "Ganesh" <> wrote:
    > >
    > > > I want to start designing a website using XHTML strict.
    > > >

    > >
    > > Are you sure this is a good idea?
    > >
    > > --
    > > dorayme

    >
    > Ofcourse... do you know any alternates.. keeping the w3c rules intact


    Read

    http://www.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie/no-xhtml.htm

    by Spartanicus (God)

    If you want to adopt a reasonably good practice for a while,
    start your HTML docs with:

    <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

    <html>

    <head>

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Oct 26, 2006
    #6
  7. Ganesh

    Rik Guest

    dorayme wrote:
    > "Ganesh" <> wrote:
    >> dorayme wrote:
    >>> "Ganesh" <> wrote:
    >>>> I want to start designing a website using XHTML strict.
    >>>
    >>> Are you sure this is a good idea?

    >>
    >> Ofcourse... do you know any alternates.. keeping the w3c rules intact

    >
    > Read
    > http://www.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie/no-xhtml.htm


    Well, there ARE good uses of XHTML strict, it's sadly not yet widely
    supported. At the moment, it's not really a big pay off to code correct
    XHTML. For controllable intranets it might be usefull, and I usually serve
    XHTML to UA's that claim application/xhtml+xml support in their headers,
    but indeed HTML 4.01 Strict to the rest.
    --
    Rik Wasmus
     
    Rik, Oct 26, 2006
    #7
  8. Ganesh

    Chaddy2222 Guest

    patrick j wrote:
    > On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 01:57:06 +0100, Ganesh wrote
    > (in article <>):
    >
    > > I want to start designing a website using XHTML strict.
    > >
    > > How should I start? I want to save time and get a good design as well.

    >
    > Hi
    >
    > I returned to doing web-sites in the last few months having not done
    > any at all for about five years.
    >
    > Initially I thought that XHTML was "the way to go" so I embarked upon
    > doing everything with XHTML.
    >
    > However there are problems with XHTML, one of which I've encountered
    > and there are lots of people in this forum who will describe in much
    > more detail why XHTML may not be a good idea.
    >
    > The problem I've encountered is that the XHTML declaration at the very
    > top:
    >
    > <?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?>
    >
    > seems to put IE 6 into "quirks mode". It might very well do this with
    > other browsers as well I've only observed this with IE 6.
    >
    > The problem (I guess) is that the browser doesn't understand this very
    > first statement and then says to itself "I must be dealing with a jolly
    > bad HTML site here" and goes into a mode of operation which is
    > anticipating problems.
    >
    > The reality seems to be that the browser's behaviour becomes
    > unpredictable in some situations.
    >
    > So I have started doing everything in HTML 4.01.
    >
    > I think that it would be easy to change the XHTML in the future if I
    > wanted to, if it did indeed become "the next big thing" because in fact
    > all I think I need to do is change the headers at the top and do a
    > find/replace on the ends some of the tags and that kind of thing.
    > However XHTML demands that all tags are closed, it is very fussy in
    > that respect, so I think that for me the thing I'm doing is just making
    > sure all my tags in HTML 4.01 are closed and by this simple measure
    > than I know that conversion to XHTML (if I wished) would be fairly
    > simple.
    >

    Yes, that is why I think XHTML is good to use.
    Also, it is not hard to get it to work in IE, you just need to serve it
    incorrectly as text/html.
    I personally don't mind throwing IE in to quirks mode eather, as the
    majority of standards compliant browsers do serve XHTML 1.0 strict
    served as text/html in standards compliant mode.
    However, you can only do this with 1.0, it's not recomended to serve
    1.1 as text/html, and frankly, I don't see a need to do that anyway.

    > The most exciting thing about the writing HTML today is CSS. This is
    > the massive change which has taken place in the period I have spent
    > away from HTML. I feel that concentrating on CSS is very much the "way
    > to go". If you are not familiar with CSS then you will find it great
    > fun to explore :)
    >

    Yes, I agree totally with that.
    --
    Regards Chad. http://freewebdesign.cjb.cc
     
    Chaddy2222, Oct 26, 2006
    #8
  9. Ganesh

    Ganesh Guest

    HTML 4.01 strict.

    Rik wrote:
    > dorayme wrote:
    > > "Ganesh" <> wrote:
    > >> dorayme wrote:
    > >>> "Ganesh" <> wrote:
    > >>>> I want to start designing a website using XHTML strict.
    > >>>
    > >>> Are you sure this is a good idea?
    > >>
    > >> Ofcourse... do you know any alternates.. keeping the w3c rules intact

    > >
    > > Read
    > > http://www.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie/no-xhtml.htm

    >
    > Well, there ARE good uses of XHTML strict, it's sadly not yet widely
    > supported. At the moment, it's not really a big pay off to code correct
    > XHTML. For controllable intranets it might be usefull, and I usually serve
    > XHTML to UA's that claim application/xhtml+xml support in their headers,
    > but indeed HTML 4.01 Strict to the rest.
    > --
    > Rik Wasmus

    Forewarned is ForeArmed...

    I want to start designing a website using HTML 4.01 strict.

    How should I start? I want to save time and get a good design as well.

    Ganesh
     
    Ganesh, Oct 26, 2006
    #9
  10. Ganesh

    Chaddy2222 Guest

    Re: HTML 4.01 strict.

    Ganesh wrote:
    > Rik wrote:
    > > dorayme wrote:
    > > > "Ganesh" <> wrote:
    > > >> dorayme wrote:
    > > >>> "Ganesh" <> wrote:
    > > >>>> I want to start designing a website using XHTML strict.
    > > >>>
    > > >>> Are you sure this is a good idea?
    > > >>
    > > >> Ofcourse... do you know any alternates.. keeping the w3c rules intact
    > > >
    > > > Read
    > > > http://www.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie/no-xhtml.htm

    > >
    > > Well, there ARE good uses of XHTML strict, it's sadly not yet widely
    > > supported. At the moment, it's not really a big pay off to code correct
    > > XHTML. For controllable intranets it might be usefull, and I usually serve
    > > XHTML to UA's that claim application/xhtml+xml support in their headers,
    > > but indeed HTML 4.01 Strict to the rest.
    > > Forewarned is ForeArmed...

    >
    > I want to start designing a website using HTML 4.01 strict.
    >
    > How should I start? I want to save time and get a good design as well.
    >
    > Ganesh

    Grab a template from http://www.oswd.org/
    --
    Regards Chad. http://freewebdesign.cjb.cc
     
    Chaddy2222, Oct 26, 2006
    #10
  11. Ganesh

    patrick j Guest

    Re: HTML 4.01 strict.

    On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:20:40 +0100, Ganesh wrote
    (in article <>):

    > I want to start designing a website using HTML 4.01 strict.


    A book might be of interest.

    I think a good one for people that haven't done any HTML/CSS before is:
    "Head First - HTML with CSS & XHTML"

    by Elisabeth Freeman & Eric Freeman

    ISBN is 059610197X

    --
    Patrick
    Brighton, UK

    <http://www.patrickjames.me.uk>
     
    patrick j, Oct 26, 2006
    #11
  12. Ganesh

    dorayme Guest

    Re: HTML 4.01 strict.

    In article
    <>,
    "Ganesh" <> wrote:

    > Forewarned is ForeArmed...
    >
    > I want to start designing a website using HTML 4.01 strict.
    >


    <g>

    > How should I start? I want to save time and get a good design as well.
    >


    Following Chaddy is not a bad idea - "Grab a template from
    http://www.oswd.org/" - just convert the doc type and if you run
    into problems ask here...

    As to why they use xhtml doctype, the answer is that the authors
    have not had the benefit of being here or reading Spartanicus
    (God) or AD or Korpela (a sort of god but a plain clothes one,
    higher than the highest uniformed ones)

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Oct 26, 2006
    #12
  13. Ganesh

    Ganesh Guest

    Re: HTML 4.01 strict.

    dorayme wrote:
    > Following Chaddy is not a bad idea - "Grab a template from
    > http://www.oswd.org/" - just convert the doc type and if you run
    > into problems ask here...


    I've been already doing that for a long time. I'd like to start with a
    new design from the scratch.

    I personally thought of the following steps.

    1.) Create a simple HTML page with all the HTML elements.
    2.) Write a css file with all the HTML elements present in it.

    So, is this a good idea?

    Ganesh
     
    Ganesh, Oct 27, 2006
    #13
  14. Ganesh

    dorayme Guest

    Re: HTML 4.01 strict.

    In article
    <>,
    "Ganesh" <> wrote:

    > dorayme wrote:
    > > Following Chaddy is not a bad idea - "Grab a template from
    > > http://www.oswd.org/" - just convert the doc type and if you run
    > > into problems ask here...

    >
    > I've been already doing that for a long time. I'd like to start with a
    > new design from the scratch.
    >
    > I personally thought of the following steps.
    >
    > 1.) Create a simple HTML page with all the HTML elements.
    > 2.) Write a css file with all the HTML elements present in it.
    >
    > So, is this a good idea?
    >


    It is an excellent idea (and one of its times, very modern) to at
    least write an html page first. Don't use all the elements as
    this will create a big headache for you. There are too many and
    you should just use the ones you need to get the content of what
    you want to put before the user.

    For example, if all you want to say is a couple of things about
    one main thing, an <h1>and a couple of <p>s should do you. If you
    want to say a couple of things about a couple of things to do
    with some one main thing, an <h1> and a couple of <h2>s and about
    4 <p>s might suit.

    As for what it will look like, yes, then write out a css sheet
    and address the features you have in the html. For example, you
    might want most people to see the main heading in the middle
    somewhere, the subheadings somewhere left and the paragraphs with
    some sort of font you fancy... all for the css.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Oct 27, 2006
    #14
  15. Ganesh

    patrick j Guest

    Re: HTML 4.01 strict.

    On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 02:43:51 +0100, Ganesh wrote
    (in article <>):

    > I personally thought of the following steps.
    >
    > 1.) Create a simple HTML page with all the HTML elements.
    > 2.) Write a css file with all the HTML elements present in it.
    >
    > So, is this a good idea?


    Very soon you will find out how easy it is. Remember not to tell
    anyone.


    --
    Patrick
    Brighton, UK

    <http://www.patrickjames.me.uk>
     
    patrick j, Oct 27, 2006
    #15
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