Ed's Odd scrolling issue

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Neil Gould, Feb 4, 2014.

  1. Neil Gould

    Neil Gould Guest

    Hi Ed,

    Preface: I am somewhat limited in that my newsreader doesn't display the
    original post, but the post which quoted what I think was the original
    question had a link to your page. I had mentioned that your page worked as
    expected (with regard to scrolling) in older versions of FF. Later, in a
    discussion with dorayme, I mentioned that I've written HTML pages with fixed
    headers that still scroll properly in the latest FF versions.

    OK. The reason I didn't proffer a "solution" based on my experience is that
    yours is a php page, and that, to me, has possible implications about how it
    is actually being generated and that might account for quirks in the way it
    interacts with some browser engines. One way to know if that is the source
    of the problem would be to write the same content as an HTML page and see
    whether the problem persists.
     
    Neil Gould, Feb 4, 2014
    #1
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  2. Being server-side vs static html should not be an issue at all, as far
    as the browser is concerned is only 'sees' an html document.
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Feb 4, 2014
    #2
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  3. Neil Gould

    dorayme Guest

    In the url I gave right at the start of the thread to test browsers
    for the fault perceived, there was no php. So what is your suggestion
    for avoiding the page down and click under problems in that one?

    That .php appears in the urls in a markup is, of course, nothing that
    can affect a browser's scrolling behaviour.

    As for what is generated on the server, you can see it for yourself
    from View menu in many browsers, there are no php instructions, all of
    those are carried out on the server before the browser gets to do its
    business.
     
    dorayme, Feb 4, 2014
    #3
  4. Neil Gould

    Neil Gould Guest

    I know that php processing is server-side. I also know that server-side
    instructions can affect such things as "on-click" actions, among other
    things. As I can't see the server-side code, I didn't presume that no such
    instructions exist simply because the page sent to the browser consists of
    the HTML portions.

    As I said before, I have much more complex fixed headers in some HTML pages
    that work as expected in the latest versions of FF, so something else might
    be at play here. So, making troubleshooting easier comes down writing the
    page as HTML to see if the scrolling problem persists. If it goes away, then
    you know where to start looking.
     
    Neil Gould, Feb 5, 2014
    #4
  5. Neil Gould

    Neil Gould Guest

    In my experience, it depends on what is going on in the server-side code.
    The page is not necessarily static, which may be the underlying problem.
     
    Neil Gould, Feb 5, 2014
    #5
  6. Neil Gould

    Neil Gould Guest

    My newsreader doesn't go back that far. Please give the urls again, and I'll
    take a look.
    That guarantee differs from my experience.
    I can't see the server-side code in my browser.
     
    Neil Gould, Feb 5, 2014
    #6
  7. That is server push which is a whole other story involving streaming or
    ajax...but that would not be the same as a static html.
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Feb 5, 2014
    #7
  8. I think you are mistaken on the causality of the issue.
    Of course you cannot, if you did then the server is misconfigured. As
    far as the browser is concerned it is just HTML.
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Feb 5, 2014
    #8
  9. No it cannot. The "on-click" event is handled by the browser. Client
    side JavaScript can, but PHP "knows" nothing about your client-side
    JavaScript. PHP and any server-side will know nothing baout was is done
    client-side until there is an HTTP request. Otherwise we are taking
    about Ajax, which is JavaScript and still not PHP.
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Feb 5, 2014
    #9
  10. Neil Gould

    Neil Gould Guest

    So... in your opinion, I really *do* know what's causing Ed's problem? I had
    no idea! ;-)
     
    Neil Gould, Feb 5, 2014
    #10
  11. Neil Gould

    Tim Streater Guest

    What does this mean, if anything?
     
    Tim Streater, Feb 5, 2014
    #11
  12. Neil Gould

    Neil Gould Guest

    So...when one *escapes* HTML via a PHP instruction triggered by user action,
    nothing else happens? My suggestion was to *eliminate* that possibililty and
    see how the page behaves. If you really believe this is an unreasonable
    approach, then perhaps you have a better suggestion for Ed?
     
    Neil Gould, Feb 5, 2014
    #12
  13. Neil Gould

    dorayme Guest

    ....
    You have all the resources at hand to show any PHP generated page's
    html that is the source of the web page you see. If you just have a
    browser like FF with no add-ons like the useful Web Developer (from
    which you can recover resources like the HTML and CSS more easily and
    even live-alter things just to see what would happen if you changed
    things)

    1. Get the page up in your browser and View
    Source or Page Source (the HTML that the
    browser is using to display the page at that
    moment)

    2. Select all, then copy and paste it into
    your favourite text editor, name the file
    "test.html"

    3. Inspect the head of the "test.html" for
    links to stylesheets, go to those links one
    at a time, starting with the topmost one.
    Copy and paste the CSS into the STYLE element
    in the head of "test.html".

    4. Inspect the HTML markup for links to
    images (and perhaps other things like movies)
    that are meant to display on the webpage.
    Work out the full paths to them and
    substitute those for the relative paths. This
    will get them to display. If you can't do
    this for any reason just alter the links to
    pictures of your own the same size (or sized
    in the IMG element to be the same or via CSS)
    as the ones on the live website.

    The resulting website page, if all goes well, should look and behave
    as the original. At least you can test your worries about php, it will
    have no php in it. If you are worried that you even see urls within
    your "test.html" sporting .php endings, change the endings to .html -
    actually clicking links is going to be irrelevant browser scrolling
    behaviour so it hardly matters what they are.

    Or you could short circuit all of this and look at the first URL I
    gave at the beginning of the thread that tests for browser's scrolling
    behaviour with fixed headers where you can see exactly what is
    happening, you are also welcome to change it in any way you please to
    stop unwanted scrolling behaviour. You can instead inspect Ed's later
    test url and see if your techniques can help him.

    If you are having trouble looking up things from the past in your
    newsreader, you can go to Google Groups and the thread is all there,
    you can inspect Ed's original url or *his* later test url:

    <https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/alt.html/b2_5Fv7pqMo[1
    01-125-false%5D>
     
    dorayme, Feb 5, 2014
    #13
  14. Neil Gould

    dorayme Guest

    No, that is not what is being said. What is being said is that the
    mere fact that ".php" appears in urls in the html doc behind the
    webpage has no causal bearing on the scrolling behaviour, nothing more
    and nothing less. You can test this for yourself as explained in
    another post.
     
    dorayme, Feb 5, 2014
    #14
  15. Neil Gould

    Neil Gould Guest

    "Escaping" from HTML is when an instruction in HTML page causes the next
    step in the processing to run server-side code. In PHP:

    http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.basic-syntax.phpmode.php

    The same concept applies to other scripting languages.
     
    Neil Gould, Feb 5, 2014
    #15
  16. Neil Gould

    Tim Streater Guest

    Are you trying to wind me up? By the time the html page has arrived at
    the browser there is no PHP code in it. It's already been executed in
    the server. If you think otherwise, I suggest you reread the link you
    posted, this time for comprehension.
     
    Tim Streater, Feb 5, 2014
    #16
  17. Neil Gould

    Tim Streater Guest

     
    Tim Streater, Feb 5, 2014
    #17
  18. Makes no difference what the server-side script outputs the browser only
    sees is indistinguishable from a static HTML document. It is how a
    webserver works.
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Feb 5, 2014
    #18
  19. Neil Gould

    Neil Gould Guest

    The server-side code is what is in question, and you can't see that with a
    browser. I'm just suggesting to Ed that he eliminate that variable as part
    of troubleshooting the page, and as I said to Jonathan, if you have a better
    suggestion, let Ed know.
    --
    best regards,

    Neil



    If you just have a
     
    Neil Gould, Feb 6, 2014
    #19
  20. Neil Gould

    Neil Gould Guest

    I didn't say that there was, and that isn't the point at all. It appears
    that you (and others) are under the erroneous impression that server-side
    code can't affect the way a page behaves.
    Eliminating variables is a well-established way to troubleshoot any problem,
    and that's all I've suggested. Rather than toss out insults, why not toss
    out a suggestion to help Ed?
     
    Neil Gould, Feb 6, 2014
    #20
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