"game programming"

K

Knut Krueger

Hi to all,
it not the right headline an not the right group, but maybe it describes
the question, and I do not know where to start asking :-(

What's the best way if I would like to show f.e a soccer field in the
background and moving players. There should be different movements,
depending on f.e a parameter of the url like ?movement=one ?movement=two
and so on.

The goal is to use the simplest and fastest (bandwidth) way.



Kind regards Knut
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

Knut said:
Hi to all,
it not the right headline an not the right group, but maybe it describes
the question, and I do not know where to start asking :-(

What's the best way if I would like to show f.e a soccer field in the
background and moving players. There should be different movements,
depending on f.e a parameter of the url like ?movement=one ?movement=two
and so on.

The goal is to use the simplest and fastest (bandwidth) way.

Flash
 
D

dorayme

Knut Krueger said:
Hi to all,
it not the right headline an not the right group, but maybe it describes
the question, and I do not know where to start asking :-(

What's the best way if I would like to show f.e a soccer field in the
background and moving players. There should be different movements,
depending on f.e a parameter of the url like ?movement=one ?movement=two
and so on.

The goal is to use the simplest and fastest (bandwidth) way.

Depending on how you would be happy to represent the soccer, a
bit abstract and sketchy, a gif might be possible. How good are
you at making animations? If you know Flash, you can do the whole
page in this. Same thing of getting up to speed on handling Flash.

If you are to use a background-image and say an animated.gif, and
a different one for each URL, consider some php to manage which
image to address in the CSS background-image property ...
url(bobbyCharltonsLeavesTheGoalKeeperNonplussed.gif)
 
K

Knut Krueger

Am 11.10.2010 23:48, schrieb dorayme:
Depending on how you would be happy to represent the soccer, a
bit abstract and sketchy,
I need something like a ball and some runners not more than 4 at one
time (its not soccer but the best thing to explain was soccer ;-)
a gif might be possible. How good are
you at making animations?
Doing gif animations is no problem, and it was my first idea.
I will get the data (which image and when there must be a new one) from
a database with php in both cases (GIF and Flash Player)
If you know Flash, you can do the whole
page in this. Same thing of getting up to speed on handling Flash.
I tried a little bit with it but I have no experience. A frined of mine
has the Adobe CS5 package (I think -Flash Professional or Flash builder
or both), maybe its helpful..
If you are to use a background-image and say an animated.gif, and
a different one for each URL, consider some php to manage which
image to address in the CSS background-image property ...

I think the most problem with gif is that there must be any frequent
refresh, not depending whether there are changes or not.
I am not familar with flash player but maybe there could be any funktion
to wait for a new event without rebuilding the background.
On the other hand nobody needs to load a flash player with animated
gifs. The biggest image would be the background, but this would be
available in the cache.
 
D

dorayme

Knut Krueger said:
I think the most problem with gif is that there must be any frequent
refresh, not depending whether there are changes or not.

Gif animations loop, you can set how many times when making the
gif from 1 loop to infinite. But remember that the user also can
set limits to the looping in some browser.

If this background is a decoration, make it so it looks nice even
if it is not moving. You might have to think a little out of the
square to make it a bit abstract and faint (with few colours) to
reduce the size of it.
 
N

Nik Coughlin

What's the best way if I would like to show f.e a soccer field in the
background and moving players. There should be different movements,
depending on f.e a parameter of the url like ?movement=one ?movement=two
and so on.

Can you describe what you want to do in a little more detail please?

Do you want to make a one player soccer game where the person browsing
your site can play some kind of soccer game?

In real time (eg they move the player around with the arrow keys or
something) or turn by turn (eg you give them some options and they
click the option they want to do, the game updates, you give them some
options etc.)
 
B

Brian Cryer

Jonathan N. Little said:

Whilst Flash probably is the way to go, Silverlight might be an alternative.
Don't consider SVG, as that technology is dying a slow death.
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

Brian said:
Whilst Flash probably is the way to go, Silverlight might be an
alternative. Don't consider SVG, as that technology is dying a slow death.

Why Silverlight? Silverlight is exclusive to Windows, the Internet is
*not* exclusive to Windows. Netfix's is catching flack for using
Silverlight for their streaming, even though *nix desktops may be in the
single digit percentile that still is a significant number of eyes that
you will exclude from your website...

SVG is a technology for defining a static image, not programmable API
for animation AFAIK
 
N

Neredbojias

fascinating exchange.

Yeah. said:
I haven't found any need for Flash, Silverlight (never installed the
plugins and haven't ever missed anything on the Web) or SVG.

Really? Yahoo News is full of videos so how do you watch them without
Flash, etc.?
But. If SVG is so good what are the tools for creating SVG graphics?
Especially as compared to Flash and Silverlight?

Agreed. The "secret" to svg's success is in how easy they may or may
not become to make.
Who's gonna use a format for which there is not a wealth of creation
tools?

Yep. If there was only one penis in the world, heterosexuality would
be an oddity.
 
N

Neredbojias

Ah, sorry. I meant on the developer side. Yes, I use the Flash
plugin.
No, I refuse to install Silverlight and have never missed it.

I read somewhere recently that some big outfit (-Google??) is planning
to stream all its videos using Silverlight. -Just skimmed the article,
was looking for something else. That ought to be interesting, though.
If the idea behind it is exclusivity, they're making the same stupid
mistakes all the other morons have been making to date.
That was (perhaps obtusely) my point.

I was reiterating your point as implicit agreement but I'm not fat.
Well, not too fat.
 
C

cwdjrxyz

You can write programs to animate things using the DOM to change
positions etc. on SVG nodes.

Or, you can use SMIL, which is part of SVG, to tell things to move along
paths in various ways, speeding up and slowing down and so on, or to
interpolate between key positions.

Or both-- use DOM to write SMIL elements and change their attributes. If
it was just a football game minding its own business in the background
repeating on a loop, SMIL with no script would be a very concise way to
do it. If it needs to react to things, DOM + SMIL would save having to
have a JavaScript interval for every single frame of the animation.

With enough artistic skill you could make something that looked like a
proper animated cartoon.

I did a few smil pages a few years ago. The w3c has a smil2 validator
at http://validator.w3.org/ . Smil is an XML language. Although
various browsers claim to support some smil, I have yet to find one
that will support a complex smil2 page. As for many other xml things,
you need a player to view it. Real has long contained a smil player
that supports most of smil2. For your own use, that is no problem
since the Real player is a free download. For use on a web page by
others, many would have to download the Real player first, because
Real is not as popular for media as it once was. There were/are pay
smil players, but very few are likely to have these installed.

If you have a fairly recent Real player installed, see
http://www.cwdjr.net/smil2/SMILshow.smil . If offered to play, select
the Real player only. Or you often will be offered to download the
page which you can open in the Real player. When on Real, select view
zoom > Original Size for best response . If you want to view the
smil2 code, right click when on the Real player and select to view
source. Or you can go to the w3c validator, and select to show source
code when you validate. Do not try to open the page on the QT player.
QT supports a limited part of smil1, and apparently thinks it should
be able to open the page. It displays one static image, outputs
digital noise at full volume, and crashes- a bit of a jolt to the ears
and might burn out speakers driven by high power amplifiers. In the
unlikely event you have a pay smil player, some of the smil code may
need to be changed. You will notice some of the media urls start with
chtml instead of html. The c tells Real to cache the media in a
special Real cache. Thus the "c" should be removed for smil players
other than Real or they may not be able to find the url page. You will
notice that smil can include both audio and video. In the case of
video, you may have to convert your video files to Real format ones.
Although I do not think Real will accept flash movies directly, for a
modern flv/swf movie there likely are converters to convert the flv to
a Real video format. Thus you could use both smil and flash video on
the same page, which might be a powerful combination.

In addition, if you have access to the server, one with Apache on it
often will have a graphics php extension that can be used for many
types of visual effects.
 
B

Brian Cryer

Jonathan N. Little said:
Why Silverlight? Silverlight is exclusive to Windows, the Internet is
*not* exclusive to Windows. Netfix's is catching flack for using
Silverlight for their streaming, even though *nix desktops may be in the
single digit percentile that still is a significant number of eyes that
you will exclude from your website...

Silverlight is an alternative (rival) to Flash, just a long way behind. It
is not exclusive to Windows, but like Flash requires a plug-in. Unlike Flash
you can't assume that the visitor will have the plug-in. I think almost all
browsers have the Flash plug-in, but heard recently that its only about 25%
that have the silverlight plugin.
SVG is a technology for defining a static image, not programmable API for
animation AFAIK

No. It can do both. I worked on a project which used used SVG for animation.
Adobe were very keen on SVG hoping it would be a Flash killer, but it never
worked out so Adobe bought Flash instead and stopped backing SVG.
 
B

Brian Cryer

Ben C said:
On what do you base that claim?

Only on my own experiences - your experiences may differ. I used to use SVG
but then made the call to migrate to Flash. I'm now considering migrating
from Flash to Silverlight as the developer tools for Silverlight are so much
better (IMO).

FireFox for example does support SVG, so I'm sure there is a vibrant
community out there, but IE doesn't without a plug-in. The most commonly
used plug-in for SVG seems to be the Adobe one but Adobe stopped backing SVG
years ago. Don't know the situation with other browsers.
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

Brian said:
Silverlight is an alternative (rival) to Flash, just a long way behind.
It is not exclusive to Windows, but like Flash requires a plug-in.

Okay, so for my Ubuntu desktops, or dorayme's Mac we just... As I said,
exclusive to Windows. If MS gets it wish and *every* computer will be a
Windows computer, then maybe Silverlight is an alternative (rival) to
Flash. That nightmare has not been realized.
 
B

Brian Cryer

Jonathan N. Little said:
Okay, so for my Ubuntu desktops, or dorayme's Mac we just... As I said,
exclusive to Windows. If MS gets it wish and *every* computer will be a
Windows computer, then maybe Silverlight is an alternative (rival) to
Flash. That nightmare has not been realized.

Er ... like I said and you quoted: "It is not exclusive to Windows, but like
Flash requires a plug-in.". It is available on macs, and google indicates
that its available for ubuntu desktops too (via mono-moonlight). On
http://www.microsoft.com/silverlight/faq/#sys-req under "What are the system
requirements for Silverlight 3" it lists Windows, Mac OS and Linux.

How effective it is at rivaling Flash only time will tell. The developer
tools are certainly better, but there are (understandably) some areas where
silverlight is playing catch-up.
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

Brian said:
Er ... like I said and you quoted: "It is not exclusive to Windows, but
like Flash requires a plug-in.". It is available on macs, and google
indicates that its available for ubuntu desktops too (via
mono-moonlight).

Ah yes, Moonlight. As much as MS would like you to believe
Moonlight==Silverlight* there is always an asterisk when MS "embraces"
Open Source...ODF & MS Word comes to mind. If you don't believe me, fire
up your Moonlight-plugin enabled Firefox on Ubuntu are try to start
streaming Netfix.
On http://www.microsoft.com/silverlight/faq/#sys-req
under "What are the system requirements for Silverlight 3" it lists
Windows, Mac OS and Linux.

Yes I have confidence that some enterprising engineer will successfully
reverse-engineer the latest Silverlight to get Moonlight to support more
sites but do you really believe MS is going to assist? And won't just
add some new feature promptly to Silverlight to render the latest
Moonlight obsolete?
 
L

Lewis

In message said:
Silverlight is an alternative (rival) to Flash, just a long way behind. It
is not exclusive to Windows, but like Flash requires a plug-in. Unlike Flash
you can't assume that the visitor will have the plug-in. I think almost all
browsers have the Flash plug-in, but heard recently that its only about 25%
that have the silverlight plugin.

What non-windows platforms does Silverlight work on (not what platforms
does the extension exist for, which ones does it WORK on?)

I seem to recall having to watch some NBC olympic coverage on a Windows
Machine because that was the only thing that worked.


--
'You know what the greatest tragedy is in the whole world?' said Ginger,
not paying him the least attention. 'It's all the people who never find
out what it is they really want to do or what it is they're really good
at. It's all the sons who become blacksmiths because their fathers were
blacksmiths. It's all the people who could be really fantastic flute
players who grow old and die without ever seeing a musical instrument,
so they become bad ploughmen instead. It's all the people with talents
who never even find out. Maybe they are never born in a time when it is
possible to find out.'
 

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