JS framework

I

Ivan S

What JS framework would you guys recommend to me?



I'll build web application which is "portlet-like" ... I like JQuery,
but I'm opened to new or better solutions.



What do you think about Dojo?




Thanks in advance.






Ivan
 
I

Ivan S

Notepad.

Start typing...

I don't think that a good idea. Notepad++ is much better. :)



Just kidding ... I don't want to code all by my self, it would take me
a lot of time to develop things that I need (and some frameworks have
it all done).
 
T

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn

Ivan said:
What JS framework would you guys recommend to me?

Yours. It's not that hard to do. In fact, without being presumptuous, I
don't think one can do worse than what is on the advertised market right
now. If only I had the time ...


HTH

PointedEars
 
R

Ricardo

Yours.  It's not that hard to do.  In fact, without being presumptuous, I
don't think one can do worse than what is on the advertised market right
now.  If only I had the time ...

lol
 
D

David Mark


Oh, it's the guy who thinks all of the bugs, memory leaks and other
incompetence in jQuery is an evil bias against jQuery and other
"frameworks" by this newsgroup. Weren't you just in here whining
about some bug report? The "attr" method I think. Was explained to
you in painful detail, but you just scuttled off and did nothing.

Your whole professional future relies on the kindness of other hacks
and you are too inept to relay a simple bug report. Ironic,
considering that community is supposed to be a selling point. I don't
think a community of inept imbeciles is what the browser scripting
world needs right now.
 
D

David Mark

I don't think that a good idea. Notepad++ is much better. :)

Just kidding ... I don't want to code all by my self, it would take me
a lot of time to develop things that I need (and some frameworks have
it all done).

No they do not. Not by a long shot and there aren't enough man-hours
in the year for them to catch up. Search the archive for more
information.
 
D

David Mark

What JS framework would you guys recommend to me?

I'll build web application which is "portlet-like" ... I like JQuery,
but I'm opened to new or better solutions.

What do you think about Dojo?

I think that, unlike jQuery and the rest, it has a bright future.
There are some very smart people involved. I am personally tying some
things down for them so that even the most grizzled Javascript
veterans will approve. The next version will leave all of the rest
behind. You can put that in the bank.

In a sentence, they are *listening*, which does not describe the other
efforts at all.
 
G

Garrett Smith

Conrad said:
...
I don't want to code all by my self, it would take me a lot of time
to develop things that I need (and some frameworks have it all done).

You're not likely to get any recommendations for libraries or frameworks
in cljs. From the FAQ [1]: "No javascript libraries are endorsed by this
group.

Should links to reviews be in the FAQ? If so, only the best reviews
should be linked. Best=highest s/n, least rudeness.

If you agree, find a link and post up. Maybe it goes in the FAQ.

Garrett
 
D

David Mark

You're not likely to get any recommendations for libraries or frameworks
in cljs. From the FAQ [1]: "No javascript libraries are endorsed by this
group.

Should links to reviews be in the FAQ? If so, only the best reviews
should be linked. Best=highest s/n, least rudeness.

Yes, but never mind judging "rudeness." Replies can be rude (like
Resig's various lame attempts to head off criticism), but reviews are
not replies to anyone, just the expression of opinions, hopefully
buttressed with facts. Are movie critics rude when they savage the
latest Hollywood monstrosity?

Nest = more controversy = more readers = more enlightenment. If
people can't deal with harsh criticism, they should seek careers out
of the spotlight. I am sick and tired of hearing that outrageous
incompetence and waste - not to mention outright fraud - is justified
and criticism is socially unacceptable. As for harshness, it is
required as nobody seems to hear whispers of mild encouragement.
If you agree, find a link and post up. Maybe it goes in the FAQ.

Ah, you know where the significant ones are. I believe jQuery,
MooTools and Cappuccino have been sufficiently debunked in the last
year or so. Not just reviewed, but dissected to show that there's
nothing proficient or maintainable inside. Is it rude to say
Cappuccino is worthless? Perhaps those who worked on it may think so,
but it's a nice gesture for all of the people who will save time by
avoiding it. I hear from those people occasionally. It makes it all
worthwhile. Well, that and all the publicity. :)
 
D

David Mark

Conrad said:
On 27/05/09 17:27, Ivan S wrote:
Ivan S wrote:
What JS framework would you guys recommend to me?
Notepad.
...
I don't want to code all by my self, it would take me a lot of time
to develop things that I need (and some frameworks have it all done)..
You're not likely to get any recommendations for libraries or frameworks
in cljs. From the FAQ [1]: "No javascript libraries are endorsed by this
group.
Should links to reviews be in the FAQ? If so, only the best reviews
should be linked. Best=highest s/n, least rudeness.

Yes, but never mind judging "rudeness."  Replies can be rude (like
Resig's various lame attempts to head off criticism), but reviews are
not replies to anyone, just the expression of opinions, hopefully
buttressed with facts.  Are movie critics rude when they savage the
latest Hollywood monstrosity?

Nest = more controversy = more readers = more enlightenment.  If
^^^^

"Best" was intended.
 
I

Ivan S

I think that, unlike jQuery and the rest, it has a bright future.
There are some very smart people involved.  I am personally tying some
things down for them so that even the most grizzled Javascript
veterans will approve.  The next version will leave all of the rest
behind.  You can put that in the bank.

In a sentence, they are *listening*, which does not describe the other
efforts at all.

Thanks.
 
S

stephen.young

I think that, unlike jQuery and the rest, it has a bright future.
There are some very smart people involved. I am personally tying some
things down for them so that even the most grizzled Javascript
veterans will approve. The next version will leave all of the rest
behind. You can put that in the bank.

In a sentence, they are *listening*, which does not describe the other
efforts at all.
 
D

David Mark

Dojo is interesting, but I'm surprised to read what almost sounds like
an endorsement from you. The current version of Dojo still relies
heavily on browser sniffing via navigator.userAgent. Will all that be
gone in the next release?

Dojo is *very* interesting. Yes, like virtually every script (scripts
in this case) written since 2005, it relies on the UA string. I said
it had a bright *future* because:

- The browser detection is going away (of course.)
- High degree of modularity and flexibility
- Fastest by far
- Well documented and supported
- Adding state of the art feature testing throughout
- Lots of ready-made widgets with consistent UI
- Active community creating add-ons
- Intelligent and thoughtful people involved
- Backed by major players and an established foundation

It's got a bit of a bad rap for being too large, but that's a myth.
It is certainly expansive, but there is no requirement to use *all* of
it. Same for the perception that toys like jQuery are easier to use.
I was surprised to find out that there is a ready-made single file
version, served via AOL's CDN that can easily replace the toy
monoliths.

As for speed, see the TaskSpeed results, which runs tests supplied by
the each script's author(s). It's not even a horse race. Appears
jQuery broke down and will have to be destroyed. :)

If you are going to bet on a horse, I'd definitely pick this one. I'm
now involved and as for the other contenders:

- Who would put a penny on John Resig at this point?
- Prototype is dying, despite the best efforts of Kangax.
- YUI is nothing but an ongoing public Beta for Yahoo. I find their
marketing to be disgustingly disingenuous.

What else is there for those who want/need a toolkit? I don't even
consider things like jQuery to be toolkits, more like random
collections of related scripts ranging in "quality" from very bad to
completely unusable (e.g. jQuery UI, which is only for those bent on
career suicide.)

I'm not saying it is perfect for everyone. But it seems virtually
everyone wants something in this mold. The powers that be at Dojo
have asked me to help out, which is certainly a credit to them and
will result in lots of improvements over the next few months. Seems
like that is what the jQuery proponents have been begging me to do for
years (except with *their* script.) They should have asked in a more
*polite* manner. :)

And, of course, you should learn Javascript and basic browser
scripting techniques, regardless of what is out there.
 
M

Matt Kruse

Dojo is *very* interesting.

After years of you saying no one should ever use a general-purpose
library and that the entire concept is flawed, you were asked to help
with one (ego stroke) and suddenly it's not such a bad idea anymore.
You have been critical of including a script on every page even if you
aren't going to use most of it, but now it's fine with Dojo because
its large size "is a myth". You've pointed out the stupidity of
framework speed comparisons, and now you're pointing to them as
evidence. You tear apart jQuery and repeatedly point out how bad it is
because it features browser-sniffing, but can overlook that in your
script of choice because they are "working on it".

I would call you a hypocrite, but I'm actually kind of glad that
you're catching up with the rest of the scripting community and
realizing the importance of scripting frameworks. I hope you don't
"search the archives" and read your own posts and convince yourself
what a bad idea it is again.

Matt Kruse
 
M

marketing

What JS framework would you guys recommend to me?

I'll build web application which is "portlet-like" ... I like JQuery,
but I'm opened to new or better solutions.

What do you think about Dojo?

Thanks in advance.

Ivan

Yahoo's YUI is also an option. Just do a google search for YUI. It has
good documentation and examples to get you going.
 
D

David Mark

After years of you saying no one should ever use a general-purpose
library and that the entire concept is flawed, you were asked to help
with one (ego stroke) and suddenly it's not such a bad idea anymore.

And, when did I tell you to use a library? Any library?
You have been critical of including a script on every page even if you
aren't going to use most of it, but now it's fine with Dojo because
its large size "is a myth".

It's modular, stupid. You know, like mine. Did you read my post?
You've pointed out the stupidity of
framework speed comparisons, and now you're pointing to them as
evidence.

I never said anything about TaskSpeed as it did not exist at the
time. It's a much better test than the query comparisons.
You tear apart jQuery and repeatedly point out how bad it is
because it features browser-sniffing, but can overlook that in your
script of choice because they are "working on it".

Again, did you read my post at all? *I* am working on it and it will
be gone in the next release.
I would call you a hypocrite, but I'm actually kind of glad that
you're catching up with the rest of the scripting community and
realizing the importance of scripting frameworks. I hope you don't
"search the archives" and read your own posts and convince yourself
what a bad idea it is again.

I just don't think you can read for comprehension at all.
 

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