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Message: [QUOTE="Tom Anderson, post: 3617102"] There's also Roger Bacon, who experimented so hard he died of it - and that was in 1294, some while before Dr Newton. There's also one of my favourite quotes, from St Augustine of Hippo, who was writing so long ago that they only had three digits in the year: "It not infrequently happens that something about the earth, about the sky, about other elements of this world, about the motion and rotation or even the magnitude and distances of the stars, about definite eclipses of the sun and moon, about the passage of years and seasons, about the nature of animals, of fruits, of stones, and of other such things, may be known with the greatest certainty by reasoning or by experience." Here's a highly entertaining and interesting talk given by an old tutor of mine, on why he thinks science got started in the 17th century: [URL]http://www.gresham.ac.uk/event.asp?PageId=108&EventId=251[/URL] tom [/QUOTE]