New Python.org website ?

[Tim Parkin]

to what target environment? a wiki? sure. the current homebrewn solution?
probably not; way too much new technology to learn, and absolutely nothing
that I'm likely to end up using in any other context.

OK...

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=]

Fredrik Lundh wrote:



OK...

Sorry to break into this, but it seems there is not so much disagreement
after all.

I agree with /F that through-the-web editing would make it more likely
to get more people on board and get the conversion done in time. Plus it
would make maintanance easier once the beta from beta.python.org has
been removed.

If I see this correctly, Fredrik would volonteer to (help) implement
something that imports the current python.org content into a Wiki.

FWIW, I myself am also willing to contribute.

MoinMoin 1.5 sounds perfect for the wiki. It supports ReST if we want
that, and now also a JavaScript-GUI based WYSIWYG editor.

If we agree that it's worth changing the primary data source from files
to a Wiki, then either the current toolchain "pyramid" needs to be
adjusted or a replacment needs to be written.

I reckon all that's left to the building process is filling one or more
templates with the content from the Wiki, and filling in the navigation
links. Which is the main point of pyramid, I suppose?

-- Gerhard

 

[Terry Hancock]

I hope it is not counted against me that I am the first
one to point out that the logo is shaped like a cross.

[...]

Hey, looks more like a Yin-Yang symbol to me. ;-)

And why ask with any trepidation, Steve? People of
different backgrounds have dissimilar sensitivities. I
hope you agree that it would be unfair to blame people for
such deeply personal affairs. If trepidation on the part
of even the Red Cross was enough to cancel such
sensitivities, we would not have had a Red Crescent or a
cooperation between them. If not proving one's
subscription to some set of beliefs, such symbols at least
disprove the same for others.

No, I'm sorry, intolerance is bad, no matter who practices
it. And what may be forgiveable on a battlefield is not
forgiveable in my workplace. I can understand that there
were specific circumstances leading to the Red Cross/Red
Crescent schism, and that it had to do with long standing
religious intolerance on both sides. It doesn't make it an
example to follow.

But sheesh, if I objected to every picture of the moon I
see (or pictures that vaguely resemble a moon), I would be
in a very sad state. Come to think of it, I have a crescent
as a background on my company website (it's Neptune, not
Luna, but it certainly resembles a crescent moon more than
that Python thing resembles a cross). Nevertheless, I am not
Muslim.

I do realize that I have no say in the decisions affecting
Python's current and future plans. But it makes sense to
think that like any other marketed product, Python must
take into consideration the nature of its target audience.
And if it is to appeal to international users, then points
of deep contention are better avoided. Don't you agree? I
am glad the shape has no significance and I thank you for
patience.

In America, we call this attitude "politcal correctness",
and it's a dead end street, my friend.

You do realize that the visual "namespace" for highly
symmetric symbols that have no religious significance to
anyone anywhere is EXTREMELY crowded, right?

Especially if you are willing to stretch a picture of two
intertwined snakes into a "Christian" cross (Just to savor
the full irony here, let's remember that snakes are
traditionally a symbol of either Paganism or Voodoo).

The "Red Cross/Red Crescent" thing is a sad reality, IMHO. A
relief organization originally based in Europe uses a flag
which is the inverse of the Swiss flag, because the Swiss
have been (for many, many years) neutral, and that flag
happens to sport a cross, because, (guess what?) Switzerland
was traditionally a Christian country. Then someone who is
apparently incredibly intolerant of other people's religious
symbols actually goes and *TAKES OFFENSE* at this symbol of
neutrality, so that they have to go and create an alternate
one just to pander to that intolerance.

There is no "Red Yin Yang", "Red Eightfold Path", "Red Star
of David" or "Red Serpent and Rainbow" to my knowledge, and
it would be incredibly stupid for there to be any such.
Apparently, the state of religious tolerance is better in
the countries where those symbols hold sway.

At worst, the cross might be a reference to "The Spanish
Inquisition", which anyone who knows anything about Python
should know is topical. The language is European in
origin, so the use of symbol which has become broadly a
European symbol (secularly -- look at the flags of Europe,
as well as religiously).

And besides, we all know it's impossible to avoid "religious
wars" when it comes to computer languages.

In reality, though, it is accidental, and very slight
resemblance. If you can somehow manage to take offense at
that, then please go get some counseling.

Cheers,
Terry

 

[A.M. Kuchling]

If I see this correctly, Fredrik would volonteer to (help) implement
something that imports the current python.org content into a Wiki.

First question I have: which wiki? Does this go into the existing
Python wiki, or into a fresh new wiki that contains *only*
Python.org-destined content?

Second question: how do we maintain the sidebar links in a wiki?
(i.e. the list of links in the blue sidebar on the existing
www.python.org). These links vary from directory to directory on the
site. In the file-based system, there's a file in every directory
that lists the links, and an individual .ht file can supply its own
list of links that's added in on top of the directory-wide links. One
minor refinement: the link to the current page is greyed out in the
sidebar.

Are there existing Wiki-based sites that do this sort of sidebar
thing?

MoinMoin 1.5 sounds perfect for the wiki. It supports ReST if we want
that, and now also a JavaScript-GUI based WYSIWYG editor.

Ah... sounds like it's time to upgrade the wiki software on python.org.

--amk

 

[Richard Brodie]

There is no "Red Yin Yang", "Red Eightfold Path", "Red Star
of David" or "Red Serpent and Rainbow" to my knowledge, and
it would be incredibly stupid for there to be any such.

Not only is there a Red Star of David but it has been causing
great controversy for years in the ICRC. Google "Red Crystal",
or check Wikipedia for the story. At least, it had some kind of
resolution.

 

[Magnus Lycka]

- The header is too empty. Maybe "The Official Python Programming
Language Website" should be there instead of under it. (I also think
that title should be shorter, maybe something simply like "The Python
Programming Language"

I also think that grey header area is wasting screen estate.
Another option would be to place a picture there, instead of
below it. It would mean that the picture needs to be less
tall. I suggest that we simply rotate the pictures like ads,
and that we always link to http://www.pythonology.org/success
or possibly to an anchor in a local page with a summary and
a link like now. (A hardcoded link to pythonology seems like
less maintenance, but means that pics need to relate to one
of those stories...)

In that way, the picture wouldn't intrude on the available
screen estate, and we could show a picture on each page. This
means that that someone who spends some time at the web site
will be exposed to pointers to a fair number of different case
stories. We just need the pictures...

At first, I thought that would cause problems by hiding the
search box for people who use narrow browser windows, but then
I saw how cleverly the pictures are cropped when the window is
made narrower. Very clever! Just make sure that the texts in the
pics are on the left side of the picture.

By the way, I suspect that the currently used pictures on the
beta site are borrowed from some other source, and that they can't
be used without explicit approval from the copyright holder. If
you want a royalty free picture of Astra Zeneca, I guess I could
drive down there and take a snapshot, it's not far, but it's a
bit dark and grey outdoors these days...

 

[Fredrik Lundh]

I agree with /F that through-the-web editing would make it more likely
to get more people on board and get the conversion done in time. Plus it
would make maintanance easier once the beta from beta.python.org has
been removed.

If I see this correctly, Fredrik would volonteer to (help) implement
something that imports the current python.org content into a Wiki.
Exactly.

FWIW, I myself am also willing to contribute.

I'm sure we can round up some people over in moinmoin land as well.

MoinMoin 1.5 sounds perfect for the wiki. It supports ReST if we want
that, and now also a JavaScript-GUI based WYSIWYG editor.

Absolutely.

</F>

 

[Fredrik Lundh]

First question I have: which wiki? Does this go into the existing
Python wiki, or into a fresh new wiki that contains *only*
Python.org-destined content?

I'd prefer a separate wiki (at least initially). Do we have enough
admin resources to set up an 1.5 instance ?

Second question: how do we maintain the sidebar links in a wiki?
(i.e. the list of links in the blue sidebar on the existing
www.python.org). These links vary from directory to directory on the
site. In the file-based system, there's a file in every directory
that lists the links, and an individual .ht file can supply its own
list of links that's added in on top of the directory-wide links. One
minor refinement: the link to the current page is greyed out in the
sidebar.

The renderer/template engine can deal with that.

Are there existing Wiki-based sites that do this sort of sidebar
thing?

Probably; you can do a lot of stuff with plugins. But I'm not sure
that's really needed here; simply point to relevant sidebar pages
from a site map page, and let the renderer take care of the rest.

Ah... sounds like it's time to upgrade the wiki software on python.org.

That would also be nice, of course.

</F>

 

[A.M. Kuchling]

I'd prefer a separate wiki (at least initially). Do we have enough
admin resources to set up an 1.5 instance ?

I doubt it's practical to run 1.3 alongside 1.5. python.org uses
mod_python, so unless the MoinMoin developers changed their software's
package name from 'MoinMoin' to something version specific like
'MoinMoin15', I think the Apache processes would get confused.

Easier just to upgrade all the existing Wikis to 1.5, I think. I'll
raise a flag about this; maybe it can get done over the weekend.

The renderer/template engine can deal with that.

Um... yeah, but how? We can group pages into folders ('Doc/whatever',
'SuccessStories/Whatever'), and then say it'll retrieve 'Doc/Sidebar'
for the sidebar. But how could a particular page add more stuff to
the sidebar? Maybe some kind of '#sidebar-links' directive that pulls
in a third wiki page, or maybe a separate page that associates page
titles with sidebars.

--amk

 

[Terry Hancock]

Not only is there a Red Star of David but it has been
causing great controversy for years in the ICRC. Google
"Red Crystal", or check Wikipedia for the story. At least,
it had some kind of resolution.

"Like, OMG, it's a *New Age* religious symbol!"

Squares and diamonds are IIRC also religious symbols in some
Native American cultures -- at least the "four points"
concept is, as it represents the world with four cardinal
directions.

And I really bet, that if you come up with ANY reasonably
symmetric symbol, somebody somewhere can come up with a
religious significance for it.

There's an important distinction here, too. As I
understand it, the point of the official recognition of "Red
Cross/Crescent/Crystal" symbols under the Geneva convention
is so they can make rules like "It's a big no-no to bomb
buildings with this symbol on it".*

That introduces considerable new wrinkles to the problem:
the symbol most be unquestionably recognizable, even in the
heat of battle, it must be EXTREMELY neutral if people who
are otherwise blowing each other to hell are going to agree
on its use, and the stakes for error are extremely high.

None of this applies to the choice of logo for Python.

The better example was the swastika comparison to a company
logo. But that's a bit different situation. In order for
the swastika to acquire this extremity of hostility, it had
to be the symbol of what is widely regarded as one of the
most evil political movements in the history of Earth. Even
so, there are still some "innocent" uses of the symbol, such
as for shrines in Japan.

If you are validating this level of hatred for the symbols
of Christianity (or Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, or whatever),
then I assert that it is *you* who are being religiously
intolerant, not the person that used the symbol.

Let me put this a different way. Let's suppose that Python
was written by an Omanian, instead of a Dutchman. If, in
the interest of providing a unique identity, the author
incorporated a crescent moon into the logo, this would not
deter my using it, nor should it in any way reflect any
religious implication whatsoever -- the artist, would, at
most, be using imagery representative of the works' origin.

This, you understand, is an example of *intentionally* using
a religious symbol in a logo.

Now, imagine that the language was instead, say, an
astronomical data reduction tool. Now, the use of a
crescent becomes topical to the language, and the fact that
the author lives in a Muslim country or is himself Muslim
would be completely incidental to the use of a symbol which
resembles a crescent moon (but might really be a generic
illuminated planet in space).

Then some conspiracy theorist comes along and says "Hey, you
know the symbol for XYZ is a crescent, and the author is
Muslim, it's a plot!"

Oh come on.

The confusion of "cross" and "plus" sign is similarly
accidental (and I'm not even sure that the + was
intentional).

It looks cool, it's got not one Python, but two, it's nicely
iconic, and unique, and the "+" is even topical to computer
languages, and has, as someone else pointed out, a
"positive" connotation. ;-)

I still like the PyGame python better, but it's not a bad
logo. If anything, my objection would be that it's starting
to look a bit too "corporate" for my taste. A little too
clean and boxy. But I can get over that.


* The part I've never been able to relate to, though, is, if
they can agree on stuff like this, why can't they agree NOT
to blow hell out of each other? Seems like that would be
rather more constructive.

--
Terry Hancock ([email protected])
Anansi Spaceworks http://www.AnansiSpaceworks.com

 

[Fredrik Lundh]

Exactly.

I don't really have time for this tonight, and I've spent more time copying
and pasting stuff than working on the converter, but I've posted a couple
of rough auto-conversions over at the moinmoin wiki:

http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/FredrikLundh/PythonOrg
http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/FredrikLundh/PythonOrg/CommunityPage
http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/FredrikLundh/PythonOrg/DevPage

most notably, lists (UL and OL tags) are not properly rendered by the
current converter (I've fixed a few of them by hand)

the next step is to decide whether to use

<url>?action=format&mimetype=text/xml plus converter

or

<url> plus scaper plus converter

for the front-end renderer...

</F>

 

[Markus Wankus]

Nobody's expecting the *user* to navigate wiki pages. It's a tool for the content
providers. And they don't have to navigate anything either; an "edit" link (or sym-
bol) in a convenient location on each page is all you need.

</F>

Ooops. I misread the thread there. Sorry 'bout that.

I can't comment on using a Wiki as a CMS for collaborative web
development as I have never tried to use it as such.

M.

 

[Fredrik Lundh]

Um... yeah, but how? We can group pages into folders ('Doc/whatever',
'SuccessStories/Whatever'), and then say it'll retrieve 'Doc/Sidebar'
for the sidebar. But how could a particular page add more stuff to
the sidebar? Maybe some kind of '#sidebar-links' directive that pulls
in a third wiki page, or maybe a separate page that associates page
titles with sidebars.

or a simple convention (using moinmoin syntax):

SideBar: <side bar title>
* [link title]
* [link title]
* [link title]

before the rest of the content.

(this also lets you put the folder sidebar links on the folder "root" page)

</F>

 

[Dave Hansen]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:58:27 -0600 in comp.lang.python, Terry Hancock

[...]

At worst, the cross might be a reference to "The Spanish
Inquisition", which anyone who knows anything about Python
should know is topical.

Perhaps, but they wouldn't expect it...

Regards,
-=Dave

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=]

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Hash: SHA1

[Steve Holden]

| https://svn.python.org/www/trunk/beta.python.org

| but I don't know whether anonymous access is enabled. Maybe you can
let
|me know ...

Doesn't look like it. Asking me for authentication.

I've finally gotten to install pyramid and build the very small and
outdated subset of the beta pydotorg site. Obviously, I'd like to have
access to the "real" data in the python.org SVN.

Rats, thanks for letting me know. As a first step I'd like to open up
anonymous access to both the content and the site generation software,
so that people can experiment with local content generation.

Then once someone knows how to use the system they can get a login for
the SVN system and start editing site content.

I'll get back to the list with instructions ASAP. It may take a while
due to inter-continental time differences and general overwork.

Are you still on it?

I'd be happy enough with any kind of readonly access for myself for now.

Thanks,

- -- Gerhard
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[Obaid R.]

I hope it is not counted against me that I am the first
one to point out that the logo is shaped like a cross.

[...]

Hey, looks more like a Yin-Yang symbol to me. ;-)

True. But I hope you are not arguing that since it looks to you like a
Yin-Yang that it makes it therefore not look like a cross. For even
Steve did say that there is no point arguing against what appears like
a matter of fact.

No, I'm sorry, intolerance is bad, no matter who practices
it. And what may be forgiveable on a battlefield is not
forgiveable in my workplace. I can understand that there
were specific circumstances leading to the Red Cross/Red
Crescent schism, and that it had to do with long standing
religious intolerance on both sides. It doesn't make it an
example to follow.

It is apparent that you know only part of the story. Kindly allow me to
comment here. Contrary to what you might have heard there was never
organized religious intolerance of Christianity by the Muslim side. To
give just one easy to follow fact of history, consider this: to this
day there are Arabic and Aramaic speaking Christians of Catholic,
Orthodox, and Coptic origins living in the Middle East. Some say about
twenty million or so. The Muslims who lived in modern day Spain, on the
other hand, were either wiped out or forcibly made to convert to
Christianity. And their numbers were in the hundreds of thousands if
not millions. And this is just one example.

But sheesh, if I objected to every picture of the moon I
see (or pictures that vaguely resemble a moon), I would be
in a very sad state. Come to think of it, I have a crescent
as a background on my company website (it's Neptune, not
Luna, but it certainly resembles a crescent moon more than
that Python thing resembles a cross). Nevertheless, I am not
Muslim.

But you see Terry, the point is not that it is just a picture. And
let's not forget that as far as we know the moon has always been a
natural part of all human life on this earth before and after Islam,
and even for those who never heard of Islam. And so the moon is not a
Muslim monopoly.

If the crescent was dropped altogether as an identifying symbol no
Muslim will lose sleep over it. Do you know why? Because it is not an
object of worship, Terry.

Here is Almighty God's command to us concerning the sun and moon:

"Among His Signs are the Night and the Day, and the Sun and the Moon.
Do not prostrate to the sun and the moon, but prostrate to Allah, Who
created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve." (Translation, Glorious
Qur'an, 41: 37)


The crescent found its way on top of domes on Mosques only to point to
the direction of the Qibla in Mecca, where all Muslims face to pray.
When a Mosque is built the crescent on the dome is made to face
parallel to the direction of Qibla. The early Muslims could have chosen
any other symbol to point to the Qibla, but they choose the crescent
only to be different, and hence to be free from the consequences that
other symbols might bring. After all some of these symbols are more or
less worshiped. And here I am thinking of the cross.

I feel I must stress again that there is no intolerance here, brother.
It is hard to deny the fact that many people do kiss the cross, kneel
before the cross, and pray beneath the crucifix, is it not? If that is
not worship then what is? A "Muslim" who does that to the crescent is
no Muslim. Period. For a Muslim kneels to no one and worships no one
but Almighty God.

And just to point to you the significance of this in case you don't
know, the greatest sin in Islam is the worshiping of others (or things)
besides Almighty God, who has no equals.

"Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He
forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with
Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed." (Translation, Glorious
Qur'an, 4: 48)


And so to summarize: even if I invent a product and place a crescent on
it, you are (as a non-Muslim) not under any obligation or threat of
confusing your support for your faith (whatever it may be), because the
moon is not a Muslim object of worship nor is it a Muslim monopoly. You
forcing the cross on a product that Muslims might use, on the other
hand, puts them in a difficult position. After all the cross seems like
an object of worship and it seems the indispensable source of identity
for Christianity.

In America, we call this attitude "politcal correctness",
and it's a dead end street, my friend.

You do realize that the visual "namespace" for highly
symmetric symbols that have no religious significance to
anyone anywhere is EXTREMELY crowded, right?

Especially if you are willing to stretch a picture of two
intertwined snakes into a "Christian" cross (Just to savor
the full irony here, let's remember that snakes are
traditionally a symbol of either Paganism or Voodoo).

The "Red Cross/Red Crescent" thing is a sad reality, IMHO. A
relief organization originally based in Europe uses a flag
which is the inverse of the Swiss flag, because the Swiss
have been (for many, many years) neutral, and that flag
happens to sport a cross, because, (guess what?) Switzerland
was traditionally a Christian country. Then someone who is
apparently incredibly intolerant of other people's religious
symbols actually goes and *TAKES OFFENSE* at this symbol of
neutrality, so that they have to go and create an alternate
one just to pander to that intolerance.

There is no "Red Yin Yang", "Red Eightfold Path", "Red Star
of David" or "Red Serpent and Rainbow" to my knowledge, and
it would be incredibly stupid for there to be any such.
Apparently, the state of religious tolerance is better in
the countries where those symbols hold sway.

At worst, the cross might be a reference to "The Spanish
Inquisition", which anyone who knows anything about Python
should know is topical. The language is European in
origin, so the use of symbol which has become broadly a
European symbol (secularly -- look at the flags of Europe,
as well as religiously).

And besides, we all know it's impossible to avoid "religious
wars" when it comes to computer languages.

In reality, though, it is accidental, and very slight
resemblance. If you can somehow manage to take offense at
that, then please go get some counseling.

Cheers,
Terry

Please do no let my professed background lead you to false assumptions.
I do realize what "political correctness" in America is. I am not sure
I agree though that it is a dead end street. It may be for those who
think that marketing or even political "spin" contribute nothing to the
branding, and selling, and hence adoption of products and ideas. Try
telling that to those who were "convinced" of the need to go to war.
Nevertheless, the dead end theory is not in keeping with what the
literature and experts in Business, political science, and Marketing
propagate.

The point they make is more or less this: it does not matter what you
(the marketer) thinks of people's sensitivities. Your views (as a
marketer) on that matter do not count; it is the views of the target
audience and their sensitivities that do. That, of course, assumes one
wishes to push for the highest adoption rates of a given product by a
target audience given a specified budget and time frame.

And not all logos are offensive to all people or most people. There is
a dead end only if we make one. There are many great logos out there:
Sony's, IBM's, Microsoft's, Linux's, Apple's, Google's, etc. And almost
all come for a Christian background all the same. The crowded
name-space your speak of notwithstanding.

To conclude, decision makers can call others names, suggest therapy for
them all they wish, and even claim that a cross is a circle and all
shapes should mean the same thing to all people all they please. But
although easy to do, that, I put it to you, is a sure recipe for
failure for the selling of any product or idea.

And while I agree that choosing a good logo is difficult, it should not
be impossible. Others have done a fine job even when they come from
similar backgrounds as the one you claim Python came from. Now refusing
to identify people's feelings to try to avoid hurting them, even when
brought forward to one's attention in good faith, and even going to the
point of ridiculing such concerns will do nothing to hurt these people,
Terry. Customers are always right. And they will look elsewhere.


Peace

 

[Tony Meyer]

But sheesh, if I objected to every picture of the moon I

But you see Terry, the point is not that it is just a picture. And
let's not forget that as far as we know the moon has always been a
natural part of all human life on this earth before and after Islam,
and even for those who never heard of Islam. And so the moon is not a
Muslim monopoly.

Perhaps you're not aware of this, but the 'plus' shape existed before
Christianity, too.

=Tony.Meyer

 

[Tim Parkin]

Tim Golden wrote:


[Steve Holden]

| https://svn.python.org/www/trunk/beta.python.org

| but I don't know whether anonymous access is enabled. Maybe you can
let
|me know ...

Doesn't look like it. Asking me for authentication.

I've finally gotten to install pyramid and build the very small and
outdated subset of the beta pydotorg site. Obviously, I'd like to have
access to the "real" data in the python.org SVN.

Hi,

I'm hopefully catching up with Andrew Kuchling today who can set up the
anonymous access for the data repo. Thanks for installing pyramid! Can
you give me any feedback on what parts of the install process were
painful.. I'm trying my best to improve the help text and make changes
to readme's etc.

Tim

 

[Steve Holden]

I hope it is not counted against me that I am the first
one to point out that the logo is shaped like a cross.

[...]

Hey, looks more like a Yin-Yang symbol to me. ;-)

True. But I hope you are not arguing that since it looks to you like a
Yin-Yang that it makes it therefore not look like a cross. For even
Steve did say that there is no point arguing against what appears like
a matter of fact.

No, I'm sorry, intolerance is bad, no matter who practices
it. And what may be forgiveable on a battlefield is not
forgiveable in my workplace. I can understand that there
were specific circumstances leading to the Red Cross/Red
Crescent schism, and that it had to do with long standing
religious intolerance on both sides. It doesn't make it an
example to follow.

It is apparent that you know only part of the story. Kindly allow me to
comment here.

[...]

Now, this is exactly the reason for the trepidation in my original reply.

Allow me to simply state, regardless of the content of the rest of this
reply, that such discussions are completely off-topic for this list.

I have no objections to people holding or voicing religious beliefs, nor
to discussions of history. It's simply that c.l.py is a very
high-bandwidth list, and every off-topic thread reduces its usefulness
for people seeking information about and assistance with Python.

Experience shows that this kind of exchange can expand and run on for
days, so I'd be very grateful if the participants would take this
discussion to private email or some other forum.

regards
Steve

 

[Fredrik Lundh]

If I see this correctly, Fredrik would volonteer to (help) implement

I don't really have time for this tonight, and I've spent more time copying
and pasting stuff than working on the converter, but I've posted a couple
of rough auto-conversions over at the moinmoin wiki:

http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/FredrikLundh/PythonOrg
http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/FredrikLundh/PythonOrg/CommunityPage
http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/FredrikLundh/PythonOrg/DevPage

for the curious, I've found a few more spare 15-minute slots, and a more
extensive (but still rough) translation is available here:

http://effbot.org/pydotorg/

the sample site contains ~600 pages. each page has been automatically
translated from python.org sources to moinmoin markup, and then stored
in a moinmoin 1.5 instance. a separate component has then extracted the
pages from moinmoin, and converted them XHTML fragments for rendering.

(the sample pages on that page are basically the XHTML fragments as is;
the final site generator should of course use a suitable templating system
and nice CSS for the final product).

(or maybe the entire site should be a run via a web framework with good
support for caching, such as

http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/cache/

any django hackers around with some cycles to spare ? )

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