Poor NG Support....

[Jon Paal]

It's a fact that learning languages that will never be used is a waste of time.

Trying to argue otherwise is just stupid, so don't go away mad, just go away .

 

[John Timney \(MVP\)]

lol.....now thats funny.

 

[John Timney \(MVP\)]

I have to side with Marina on this one!

Given I work for a living, and I dont get paid for this, I tend to answer
the questions that are concise enough to merit a little of my time, rather
than a full blown research project that I would normally expect to be paid
for - and I only usually answer questions that are clear enough to have
shown the poster has considered the best way to get an answer by thinking
carefully about the question being posted. Its a two way street - no one is
employed in these groups but the regulars actually give a lot of time, and
many questions do actually get answered, even if not immediately.

You should also consider that if people expect in-depth help on what are
often some highly complex topics, with extensive debugging often required
and don't get it they can always hire professionals to solve it for them.

--
Regards

John Timney (MVP)
http://www.johntimney.com

 

[John Timney \(MVP\)]

Thats not entirely true, I've learned about languages and tools I would
never use so I could balance design choices and justify/rationalise my
technical decisions. I have learned to program in VB, LISP, C#, VB.NET,
Java, can turn my hand to C/C++ and know PHP, but the only one I ever really
use is C#. It is good to know in what circumstance I might choose one of
the others though so its never a waste of time if you have a reason for
learning it, even if you might never use it! The more I know the more
chocies I have!

Regards

John Timney (MVP)
http://www.johntimney.com

 

[Jon Paal]

"balance design choices and justify/rationalise my technical decisions"

That's silly talk.

What does spending time learning unused multiple languages have to do with design choices ?

Are you going to build your ASP.net application in multiple languages ?

Are you saying one language has better utilization in ASP.net than another ?

 

[John Timney \(MVP\)]

"balance design choices and justify/rationalise my technical decisions"

That's silly talk.

Only to you I expect! A significant number of experienced developers and
architects I know and many people who frequent these groups will almost
certainly know more than one development language, multiple tools, and
understand about platforms and technologies they rarely utilise.

What does spending time learning unused multiple languages have to do with
design choices ?

Asp.net is not the only framework for building applications in. As an
architect I have to understand the scope and limitations of my technical
choices, tyeing that to resource/skills availability, platform, budget
constraints etc. can make a significant difference in choosing a technology.
If I only know one technology, I cant balance a decision correctly and could
make the wrong decision, or make one biased on only knowing one thing and
limiting my choices.

Are you going to build your ASP.net application in multiple languages ?

Yes, if its appropriate! Why wouldn't I use a DLL developed in VB.NET in a
primarily C# ASP.NET application if it saved time and effort, and had a
multi skilled team. Re-writing that functionality costs money, takes time.
If its easy to support it even though its in another langauge its not a
problem.

Are you saying one language has better utilization in ASP.net than another
?

No, but then if you knew more than one language you shouldn't have to ask
that question!

--
Regards

John Timney (MVP)
http://www.johntimney.com

 

[Jon Davis]

I agree, but the problem is that Microsoft has a publicly stated policy of a
48-hour guaranteed peer response to any question or else they will step in.
That never happens.

Jon

 

[Juan T. Llibre]

re:

the problem is that Microsoft has a publicly stated policy of a 48-hour guaranteed peer response
to any question

Not so.

The publicly stated policy is that a 48-hour response *by Microsoft Support personnel*
is guaranteed to any MSDN subscriber who has associated a no-spam alias with his
Passport at the MSDN Subscriptions site, who asks a question.

There is no guarantee that peers will respond to any/all questions asked,
given that peer-to-peer contributions are voluntary.

We all contribute what we can, when we can.
A peer-to-peer community is what we and our peers make of it.

 

[Jon Paal]

Only to you I expect! A significant number of experienced developers and architects I know and many people who frequent these
groups will almost certainly know more than one development language, multiple tools, and understand about platforms and
technologies they rarely utilise.

Anything learned that doesn't generate revenue is just a hobby...

Asp.net is not the only framework for building applications in. As an architect I have to understand the scope and limitations of
my technical choices, tyeing that to resource/skills availability, platform, budget constraints etc. can make a significant
difference in choosing a technology. If I only know one technology, I cant balance a decision correctly and could make the wrong
decision, or make one biased on only knowing one thing and limiting my choices.

name one example where another platform/framework would be chosen over ASP.net for usage and why it would be better

Yes, if its appropriate! Why wouldn't I use a DLL developed in VB.NET in a primarily C# ASP.NET application if it saved time and
effort, and had a multi skilled team. Re-writing that functionality costs money, takes time. If its easy to support it even
though its in another langauge its not a problem.

DLL's are compiled and language neutral.....

No, but then if you knew more than one language you shouldn't have to ask that question!

Then there is no reason to have multiple languages...

 

[RAB]

When you don't get a response try posting your question on
htt[://www.expert-exchange.com I have always had my questions answered
there.

RABMissouri

 

[Kevin Spencer]

Anything learned that doesn't generate revenue is just a hobby...

How do you define "generate revenue?" Obviously, you are a young man. You'd
be surprised how many things I have learned in the past that did not
generate revenue directly, but have been useful to me in later years.
Therefore, it is impossible to tell whether anything learned will or will
not generate revenue. It is only possible to tell if it will generate
revenue immediately. To make an assumption that one will never make use of
information is short-sighted.

I would therefore say "Anything learned that doesn't generate revenue
*immediately* is research."

--
;-),

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Chicken Salad Surgery

What You Seek Is What You Get.

 

[Mike Lowery]

The publicly stated policy is that a 48-hour response *by Microsoft Support
personnel*
is guaranteed to any MSDN subscriber who has associated a no-spam alias with
his
Passport at the MSDN Subscriptions site, who asks a question.

You have a link to where one can set this information? I'm not seeing it.

 

[Mike Lowery]

How do you define "generate revenue?" Obviously, you are a young man. You'd be
surprised how many things I have learned in the past that did not generate
revenue directly, but have been useful to me in later years.

I second that sentiment.

Therefore, it is impossible to tell whether anything learned will or will not
generate revenue. It is only possible to tell if it will generate revenue
immediately. To make an assumption that one will never make use of information
is short-sighted.

I would therefore say "Anything learned that doesn't generate revenue
*immediately* is research."

And if learning something that doesn't generate revenue is just a hobby, I guess
going to college and getting an education is just a hobby! Many things you
learn there you'll likely never use to generate revenue.

 

[Juan T. Llibre]

Login to :
http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions
and click on the "Configure" link under "Managed Newsgroups".

You can also read the rules without logging in to your subscription at :
http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/faq/default.aspx

See the question : What are MSDN managed newsgroups?

Answer :

"Managed newsgroups are for current MSDN Premium, Enterprise, Professional,
or Operating System subscribers. These subscribers can post a message and receive
a response from the community or a Microsoft Support Engineer within 2 business days."

 

[Jon Paal]

ok, taking me a bit too literally..

The debate is on learning multiple programming languages in order to be effective in ASP.net, not learning in general.

 

[Jon Paal]

ok, taking me a bit too literally..

The debate is on learning multiple programming languages in order to be effective in ASP.net, not life in general. Reference to
comparisons like college and getting an education is too broad.

 

[Mike Lowery]

Hmm, all I have is a link to "Managed Newsgroups" and there is no "Configure"
link there.

 

[Juan T. Llibre]

re:

Hmm, all I have is a link to "Managed Newsgroups" and there is no "Configure" link there.

The configure link shows up *after* you login with your subscription ID.

However, as mentioned, you can also read the
rules without logging in to your subscription at :

http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/faq/default.aspx

i.e., use the "Sign in" button...and sign in.

You'll be taken to :
https://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/account/ManageSubscription.aspx
where you'll see the "Configure" link, under "Managed Newsgroups".

Sometimes, I've had to hit the "Managed Newsgroups" link first.

 

[Kevin Spencer]

ok, taking me a bit too literally..

Not at all. The fact that you can't see the benefit doesn't mean that it
doesn't exist. And the goal is not "to be effective in ASP.Net" but to be an
excellent programmer. I worked for quite a few years doing ASP and ASP.Net
exclusively. Now, I hardly do any ASP.Net at all. Life is long, and full of
changes. These days, to keep up you have to look ahead. Since, of course, it
is not possible to see ahead, the only alternative is to prepare for
whatever may come. IOW, a well-rounded education in whatever specialty one
chooses for a career, the more likely one is to be prepared for future
changes.

I study all kinds of things related to programming in various ways -
Mathematics, Physics, Geography, Psychology, Medicine, and a plethora of
other scientific and technical disciplines. At various points I have had to
have or acquire knowledge in some of these other disciplines. And knowledge
is not so pigeon-holed as you might think. Knowledge in one area often leads
to new knowledge in another area. While I don't study *everything* I tend to
be fairly broad within the realm of related disciplines.

Even just within the realm of ASP.Net, you have multiple languages and
technologies in play. You have JavaScript, for example, as a client-side
programming language. It is helpful to understand the HTTP protocol, the
HTML DOM, CSS, and XML. At various times, one might employ COM, or ActiveX,
or even Flash. So, the broader one's understanding is of various programming
languages and technologies, the more likely one is to be successful in
ASP.Net.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Chicken Salad Surgery

What You Seek Is What You Get.