Python vs Ruby

[Lethalman]

(sorry for my poor English)
Hello,
i'm a pythonist but i like very much some ruby features, however it
doesn't seem to be very supported at all like Python.
I never programmed in ruby, because i python is more used.

I would like to know why ruby doesn't "take the fly" like Python did,
because i really would like to try the ruby language!

Bye!

 

[Premshree Pillai]

(sorry for my poor English)
Hello,
i'm a pythonist but i like very much some ruby features, however it
doesn't seem to be very supported at all like Python.

I might be repeating a lot of stuff that's already been written in the
past about this, but since you asked, here are the two _main_ reasons:
* Ruby is relatively new compared to Python
* Most of Ruby's initial docs/mls were in Japanese

Things are changing now, of course.

I don't see other reasons, actually. It'd be interesting to see if
others point out other reasons. :-w

 

[Lethalman]

Here's one: Ruby is better than Python, but the industry has decided
that worse is better, so Python wins.

Another one: Bruce Eckel (for whom I had lots of respect) has said that
Ruby is not worth learning compared to Python (which is why I lost all
the respect I had for him, poof, instantly gone, bye bye), so Python
wins again.

Oh, and another one: Python users don't like to admit that they made the
wrong choice, so they stick with their inferior solution, so Python wins
again.

Do you need more ?

(sorry for my poor English)

I do agree with everything you said, escpecially this:

Oh, and another one: Python users don't like to admit that they made the
wrong choice, so they stick with their inferior solution, so Python wins
again.

However i should say choosing ruby whould be like using a "deprecated
language". It has a low support, development and many other reason that
programmers (and not only pythonist) don't choose ruby.

I think if ruby become a very known-language python could go back to
guido var rossum. The only way is to make great & original projects,
then vendors MUST implement ruby in their products.

Please, phrases to let me start ruby programming? I'm making a
medium-big project with python (a powerful and very custmizable-modular
ircd) and i know ruby can do more than python, but i really don't want
to change (easy-to-use matters)...

 

[Luc Heinrich]

I don't see other reasons, actually.

Here's one: Ruby is better than Python, but the industry has decided
that worse is better, so Python wins.

Another one: Bruce Eckel (for whom I had lots of respect) has said that
Ruby is not worth learning compared to Python (which is why I lost all
the respect I had for him, poof, instantly gone, bye bye), so Python
wins again.

Oh, and another one: Python users don't like to admit that they made the
wrong choice, so they stick with their inferior solution, so Python wins
again.

Do you need more ?

 

[Nikolai Weibull]

* Lethalman (Jan 09, 2005 17:20):

Hello, i'm a pythonist but i like very much some ruby features,
however it doesn't seem to be very supported at all like Python.

Please, oh please look at the ruby-talk archives before asking questions
like these. We have had a countless number of threads on this subject
already. There's nothing to be gained by this discussion anymore.

Anyway, your statement is a bit ambigious. Do you mean supported as in
"used and _endorsed_ by a lot of people" or as in "receiving a lot of
attention from its developers"? Either way, I think that you haven't
seen the whole picture. It is both actively used and actively
developed.

I never programmed in ruby, because i python is more used.

Yes, yes...and Java is perhaps the most used language in the industry at
the moment. If you are required to use Python, then do...you could do
far worse. However, if you're doing things for your own pleasure, you
shouldn't be limiting yourself to using whatever language seems most
popular at the moment.

I would like to know why ruby doesn't "take the fly" like Python did,
because i really would like to try the ruby language!

I really don't understand what you mean here. Python has been around
longer than Ruby, so it has gained a larger user-base. It is also much
closer related to Algol-type languages (such as C) than Ruby is. Thus,
many users of Python are using it since it fits their mental model
better. This isn't to say that Ruby isn't as usable, probably the
opposite in fact. Ruby brings ideas from many programming lanugages
together, taking the best of many paradigms; you can find bits of Lisp,
SmallTalk, Perl, C, sh, and even Python in Ruby. I don't understand why
you can't use a language simply because ESR (Eric S. Raymond) uses
Python,
nikolai

 

[James Britt]

(sorry for my poor English)
Hello,
i'm a pythonist but i like very much some ruby features, however it
doesn't seem to be very supported at all like Python.
I never programmed in ruby, because i python is more used.

I would like to know why ruby doesn't "take the fly" like Python did,
because i really would like to try the ruby language!

Ruby is moving up the charts.

Regardless of its popularity, you can try the Ruby language and decide
for yourself whether it deserves more attention.

If everyone waited until something was popular before using it we'd
probably get stuck using languages owned by Sun and Microsoft.


James

 

[Nikolai Weibull]

* Luc Heinrich (Jan 09, 2005 17:40):

Here's one: Ruby is better than Python, but the industry has decided
that worse is better, so Python wins.

Ah, a Peter Gabriel-ism ;-),
nikolai

 

[Joao Pedrosa]

Hi,

(sorry for my poor English)
Hello,
i'm a pythonist but i like very much some ruby features, however it
doesn't seem to be very supported at all like Python.
I never programmed in ruby, because i python is more used.

I would like to know why ruby doesn't "take the fly" like Python did,
because i really would like to try the ruby language!

Besides what the other guys have already said that I agree with, I
think Python has had better support on Windows and they have an
integrated IDE which supports auto-completion. On Windows, many times,
people try out Cygwin out of despair. Another point is that Python
seems faster (performance-wise) for some tasks.

So, I don't blame the Pythonists for choosing the wrong language...
They are partially right, at least. We have a better language,
some very nice libraries and a great community.

Cheers,
Joao

 

[Premshree Pillai]

Here's one: Ruby is better than Python, but the industry has decided
that worse is better, so Python wins.

I think you are being too critical about Python. I use Ruby as well as
Python for my work. Whenever I make a presentation about Ruby, I often
draw similarities between Ruby and Python. There are not many _major_
differences between the two languages from the POV of a language user.

Another one: Bruce Eckel (for whom I had lots of respect) has said that
Ruby is not worth learning compared to Python (which is why I lost all
the respect I had for him, poof, instantly gone, bye bye), so Python
wins again.

That was in a FAQ, right? That comment doesn't exist anymore, I think.
Maybe he changed his views or something.

 

[Florian Gross]

(sorry for my poor English)
Hello,
i'm a pythonist but i like very much some ruby features, however it
doesn't seem to be very supported at all like Python.
I never programmed in ruby, because i python is more used.

I would like to know why ruby doesn't "take the fly" like Python did,
because i really would like to try the ruby language!

I'm not sure what that means, but if you're arguing about adaption,
we're doing well and even more well. You can help us with doing yet even
more more well by starting to use it today. You won't regret it.

 

[Florian Gross]

However i should say choosing ruby whould be like using a "deprecated
language". It has a low support, development and many other reason that
programmers (and not only pythonist) don't choose ruby.

Nope, that's not true. I see quite a lot of development and support.
Especially from the community.

Please, phrases to let me start ruby programming? I'm making a
medium-big project with python (a powerful and very custmizable-modular
ircd) and i know ruby can do more than python, but i really don't want
to change (easy-to-use matters)...

Ruby *is* easy to use.

 

[Premshree Pillai]

Hi,



Besides what the other guys have already said that I agree with, I
think Python has had better support on Windows and they have an
integrated IDE which supports auto-completion. On Windows, many times,
people try out Cygwin out of despair. Another point is that Python
seems faster (performance-wise) for some tasks.

And Ruby is faster (performance-wise) for some _other_ tasks. I
don't think it's worth comparing the performances of two languages
generally. They should -- and are -- compared on a task basis.

Actually, if you see the list archives, folks from the Python ml tend
to say something to the effect of: "Python is generally faster than
Ruby"; and folks here tend to say the other way.

 

[Luc Heinrich]

I think you are being too critical about Python.

You're probably right. My opinion on Python is just based on my personal
experience with it: using Python has the same effect on me then using
Windows, it makes me want to projectile vomit my breakfast (or lunch or
dinner depending on the time of day I am doing this). So yeah, my
comment might have a little bias

There are not many _major_
differences between the two languages from the POV of a language user.

Well, my opinion is that Ruby has been designed, while Python has been
tinkered, and this makes one hell of a difference from the POV of a
language user, because quite frankly, it shows. :>

 

[Nikolai Weibull]

* Premshree Pillai (Jan 09, 2005 18:00):

That was in a FAQ, right? That comment doesn't exist anymore, I think.
Maybe he changed his views or something.

Or may he's just a smug coward?
nikolai

 

[Premshree Pillai]

You're probably right. My opinion on Python is just based on my personal
experience with it: using Python has the same effect on me then using
Windows, it makes me want to projectile vomit my breakfast (or lunch or

Boy, do you hate Python or what! I haven't seen Ruby users so critical
about Python.

 

[Jeff Wood]

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That was in a FAQ, right? That comment doesn't exist anymore, I think.
Maybe he changed his views or something.

To all interested parties:

I've corresponded with Mr. Eckel directly about Ruby ( recently ... like
November '04 )

His response was that he had looked at it a "years ago" and that it
seemed "very perlish". So, he stated that he's "been following it
peripherally".

He also stated "If I get a chance to take a tutorial, I will probably
try to do so."

I'm only giving snippets because I want to protect Mr. Eckel's privacy
as much as I can.

Since this email, I have sent further email including at least what *I*
consider to be the top 3 tutorials for Ruby ( online )....

Pickaxe Online ...
Why's Poignant Guide ...
and, the Tutorial included in the standard documentation.

Anyways, there's the $0.02 I know about this topic. Hope it helps somebody.

j.

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[Luc Heinrich]

Boy, do you hate Python or what!

Just a little...

 

[gabriele renzi]

Lethalman ha scritto:

(sorry for my poor English)
Hello,
i'm a pythonist but i like very much some ruby features, however it
doesn't seem to be very supported at all like Python.
I never programmed in ruby, because i python is more used.

I would like to know why ruby doesn't "take the fly" like Python did,
because i really would like to try the ruby language!

it is doing, it seem, I think this thing was true for pythonvs perl and
for perl vs tcl and maybe tcl vs sh..
just wait some more

Anyway, just wanted to notice you that there is an italian ruby user
group (I think I saw you con i.c.l.py) that you can from at
http://ada2.unipv.it/ruby
we have a low traffic mailing list but if you ask for something you get
an answer quite quickly

 

[Lothar Scholz]

Hello Lethalman,

L> (sorry for my poor English)
L> Hello,
L> i'm a pythonist but i like very much some ruby features, however it
L> doesn't seem to be very supported at all like Python.
L> I never programmed in ruby, because i python is more used.

L> I would like to know why ruby doesn't "take the fly" like Python did,
L> because i really would like to try the ruby language!

At the moment i would say that the language is in some aspects better
then python. But the current implementation is not as good as the language
itself.

Ruby does not have native threading, makeing it a serious problem for
interactive GUI applications. Here Python is in almost all cases still
the better choice.

Ruby has problems with being embedded into other programs, especially
when they are multithreaded but also when they must use two
independent interpreters (like some application servers).

If your application needs to be fast then normally ruby and python are
not a good choice. But it is much easier to improve the performance of
python then ruby, because there are a few more sophisticated
technologies for python then for ruby.

If this 3 reasons are not important to your application then choose
ruby otherwise use another language.

 

[Premshree Pillai]

Hello Lethalman,

L> (sorry for my poor English)
L> Hello,
L> i'm a pythonist but i like very much some ruby features, however it
L> doesn't seem to be very supported at all like Python.
L> I never programmed in ruby, because i python is more used.

L> I would like to know why ruby doesn't "take the fly" like Python did,
L> because i really would like to try the ruby language!

At the moment i would say that the language is in some aspects better

Could you elaborate on those aspects?