The use of the C++ standard

[Evan]

[I'm not positive if this should go here or comp.std.c++, so I hope
you'll forgive me if you feel it is off topic here.]

I've programmed in C++ for several years now (think 5 years seriously,
and maybe 8 from when I made my hello world), and I'm debating whether
or not I should buy the C++ standard document. So I have a couple
questions about it.

1. Under what circumstances would you recommend buying it? Is it useful
for mostly just compiler/library implementers, or do you guys use it in
everyday programming? If so, how?

2. There's a published version for about 60 USD (search Amazon.com for
"C++ Standard" and it's the first hit), but I'm hesitant to buy it
because all the reviews pretty much say that it will fall apart on
pretty short order. If you have this, can you confirm/refute these
statements? Is there any added information (above and beyond the text
of the standard; maybe annotations) in it?

3. ANSI sells a PDF download of the standard for $18. Does this include
the Technical Corrigendum? How much is changed by that revision? One of
the Amazon reviews for the bound version says that this version is just
"preliminary documents"; is this true, or is the author just spouting
crap? And can the PDF be printed?

Thanks

 

[David White]

[I'm not positive if this should go here or comp.std.c++, so I hope
you'll forgive me if you feel it is off topic here.]

I've programmed in C++ for several years now (think 5 years seriously,
and maybe 8 from when I made my hello world), and I'm debating whether
or not I should buy the C++ standard document. So I have a couple
questions about it.

1. Under what circumstances would you recommend buying it? Is it useful
for mostly just compiler/library implementers, or do you guys use it in
everyday programming? If so, how?

It's mostly useful only for answering questions in here

2. There's a published version for about 60 USD (search Amazon.com for
"C++ Standard" and it's the first hit), but I'm hesitant to buy it
because all the reviews pretty much say that it will fall apart on
pretty short order. If you have this, can you confirm/refute these
statements? Is there any added information (above and beyond the text
of the standard; maybe annotations) in it?

3. ANSI sells a PDF download of the standard for $18. Does this include
the Technical Corrigendum? How much is changed by that revision? One of
the Amazon reviews for the bound version says that this version is just
"preliminary documents"; is this true, or is the author just spouting
crap? And can the PDF be printed?

The PDF is what I have, but I find it so difficult to find what I want in it
that I hardly ever look at it. A printed version would be even worse, since
you wouldn't even be able to search for text strings. A comprehensive index
of the standard document would be a godsend, but a hell of a lot of work.

DW

 

[Chris Theis]

[I'm not positive if this should go here or comp.std.c++, so I hope
you'll forgive me if you feel it is off topic here.]

I've programmed in C++ for several years now (think 5 years seriously,
and maybe 8 from when I made my hello world), and I'm debating whether
or not I should buy the C++ standard document. So I have a couple
questions about it.

1. Under what circumstances would you recommend buying it? Is it useful
for mostly just compiler/library implementers, or do you guys use it in
everyday programming? If so, how?

For "normal" everyday use you'll get along without a copy of the standard.
However, it comes in handy if you have to port to different
platforms/compilers and there might be issues with different behaviors
depending on the compilers.

2. There's a published version for about 60 USD (search Amazon.com for
"C++ Standard" and it's the first hit), but I'm hesitant to buy it
because all the reviews pretty much say that it will fall apart on
pretty short order. If you have this, can you confirm/refute these
statements? Is there any added information (above and beyond the text
of the standard; maybe annotations) in it?

3. ANSI sells a PDF download of the standard for $18. Does this include
the Technical Corrigendum? How much is changed by that revision? One of
the Amazon reviews for the bound version says that this version is just
"preliminary documents"; is this true, or is the author just spouting
crap? And can the PDF be printed?

Thanks

I'd recommend to go with the PDF version as it can be searched easily.
However, I think you can print it if you want, though I never tried because
I'm dreading the pile of paper which I would have a hard time searching in.

Cheers
Chris

 

[msalters]

I've programmed in C++ for several years now (think 5 years seriously,
and maybe 8 from when I made my hello world), and I'm debating whether
or not I should buy the C++ standard document. So I have a couple
questions about it.

1. Under what circumstances would you recommend buying it? Is it useful
for mostly just compiler/library implementers, or do you guys use it in
everyday programming? If so, how?

It tends to end discussions very quickly. Useful with some colleagues
in some businesses. /Especially/ if you use the hardcover version.
Whacking someone with a PDF is not nearly as satisfying.

Seriously, in most cases I prefer Matt Austern's STL book. I tend to
avoid
IOstreams for anything more than the most basic cases (where
performance
doesn't matter and the input is carefully controlled). That leaves the
core part, but anything in there that I'm not sure about is something I
wouldn't use - have to think about my colleagues.

Regards,
Michiel Salters

 

[Pete Becker]

3. ANSI sells a PDF download of the standard for $18. Does this include
the Technical Corrigendum? How much is changed by that revision? One of
the Amazon reviews for the bound version says that this version is just
"preliminary documents"; is this true, or is the author just spouting
crap? And can the PDF be printed?

The PDF download is the current standard. That includes the TC.

 

[Pete Becker]

A comprehensive index
of the standard document would be a godsend, but a hell of a lot of work.

Well, the standard does have a 34 page index, and PDF bookmarks for all
of the TOC entries. Mostly I use word searches to find what I need,
though. The current WD makes all the internal cross references into hot
links, which makes it much easier to jump to the "right" place.

 

[Matthias Kaeppler]

The PDF download is the current standard. That includes the TC.

Isn't this the draft standard, the one for 18$? I think the final
standard document is something more like 400$.

 

[Pete Becker]

Isn't this the draft standard, the one for 18$? I think the final
standard document is something more like 400$.

Nope. ANSI isn't in the business of defrauding customers. <g> The $18
one is technically the ANSI version; the $288 one is the ISO version.
They're the same.

 

[Ioannis Vranos]

[I'm not positive if this should go here or comp.std.c++, so I hope
you'll forgive me if you feel it is off topic here.]

I've programmed in C++ for several years now (think 5 years seriously,
and maybe 8 from when I made my hello world), and I'm debating whether
or not I should buy the C++ standard document. So I have a couple
questions about it.

1. Under what circumstances would you recommend buying it? Is it useful
for mostly just compiler/library implementers, or do you guys use it in
everyday programming? If so, how?

It is mostly needed by compiler / standard library implementers. Also it can be used for
quick reference under some cases.

2. There's a published version for about 60 USD (search Amazon.com for
"C++ Standard" and it's the first hit), but I'm hesitant to buy it
because all the reviews pretty much say that it will fall apart on
pretty short order. If you have this, can you confirm/refute these
statements? Is there any added information (above and beyond the text
of the standard; maybe annotations) in it?

Prefer the PDF, it is easier to search in it. Also use Acrobat Reader 6 or later, they
contain a nice search mechanism (in 7 use ctrl-shift-f, in 6 use ctrl-f).

3. ANSI sells a PDF download of the standard for $18. Does this include
the Technical Corrigendum?

Yes, if you buy the 2003 one.

How much is changed by that revision?

14882:2003 is the latest standard and is mainly a "bug-fixed" version of 1998.

 

[Default User]

The PDF download is the current standard. That includes the TC.

My company has a site license for the standard, the one they have is
title:

INTERNATIONAL STANDARD
ISO/IEC 14882
Second edition
2003-10-15
Programming languages - C++
Langages de programmation - C++


Is that the latest? I'm not sure if there was another update after 2003
or not. At any rate, convenient to have a click away.



Brian

 

[Pete Becker]

INTERNATIONAL STANDARD
ISO/IEC 14882
Second edition
2003-10-15
Programming languages - C++
Langages de programmation - C++


Is that the latest?

Yes.

 

[Default User]

Yes.

I thought so, I wasn't sure where they were in the TC incorporation
process. Thanks.



Brian

 

[Pete Becker]

I thought so, I wasn't sure where they were in the TC incorporation
process. Thanks.

People seem to be confused here, so I'll spell it out a bit more.

The original C++ standard was approved in 1998. Its designation is
ISO/IEC 14882:1998. Over the next five years we processed DRs (Defect
Reports), and the result was a Technical Corrigendum (TC). That was
integrated into the C++ Standard (the TC was too long, it was too hard
to read the diffs, etc.), which was then re-released as 14882:2003. That
supersedes 14882:1998.

We've also issued a Technical Report on C++ Performance (ISO/IEC TR
18015), and we're about to issue a Technical Report on C++ Library
Extensions (ISO/IEC TR 19768, also known as TR1, since it's the first
library TR). TR's do not change the standard; they provide technical
information, and sometimes (e.g. TR1) they indicate possible future
directions.

And finally, after each meeting we integrate changes that were approved
at the meeting into the Working Draft (WD). So far that's just DRs. The
WD does not change the standard, which is still 14882:2003. The WD
tracks approved changes, but those changes won't become part of the
standard until a new standard is approved and released. That new
standard is called, informally, C++0x, in the hope that it will be
approved sometime before 2010.

 

[David White]

Well, the standard does have a 34 page index,

Thanks, though I shouldn't have needed to be told. I suppose I didn't expect
a formal document such as this to have an index and never bothered to check!

DW