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Message: [QUOTE="Mike Meyer, post: 1850792"] You're shifting the emphasis from hashable back to mutable, which is the problem that I'm trying to fix. The mutability - or immutability - of an object is irrelevant to the question of whether or not they can be a dictionary key/set element. The critical property is that they are hashable. *Most* immutable builtin types are hashable, and no builtin mutable types are hashable, which deserves a mention. Once you get away from the builtins, mutability simply stops mattering. Giving mutability top billing is simply wrong. Ordinary lists aren't Python classes. Um, actually, I pointed that out (possibly as well), and included it in one of the earlier versions. I was contemplating moving it elsewhere, and accidently left it out. It certainly deserves mention somewhere; I'm just not sure that here is the right place. Along with __hash__ seems more appropriate. <mike [/QUOTE]