*Advanced* Python book?

Discussion in 'Python' started by mk, Jan 16, 2009.

  1. mk

    mk Guest

    Hello everyone,

    I looked for it I swear, but just can't find it.

    Most Python books seem to focus on examples of how to call functions
    from standard library. I don't need that, I have online Python
    documentation for that.

    I mean really advanced mental gymnastics, like gory details of how
    Python objects operate, how to exploit its dynamic capabilities, dos and
    donts with particular Python objects, advanced tricks, everything from
    chained decorators to metaprogramming. Dive Into Python comes closest to
    this ideal from what I have found, but still not far enough.

    Anybody found such holy grail?

    Regards,
    mk
     
    mk, Jan 16, 2009
    #1
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  2. mk wrote:

    > Hello everyone,
    >
    > I looked for it I swear, but just can't find it.


    > Most Python books seem to focus on examples of how to call functions
    > from standard library. I don't need that, I have online Python
    > documentation for that.


    IMHO, you don't need an advanced *python* book. If you know
    the documentation and basic tutorials, then you know
    enough python to write almost anything you may need.

    The exception may be, again IMO:
    - tkinter, that will need some more work,
    - and C extensions, that are made easier by SWIG.
    But I think these topics are adressed by books
    you already found too simple.

    What you need next is:
    - read code that do something interesting, for example
    here http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/PADS/ or in python
    sources (or find projects on sourceforge, etc.)
    - find a book on advanced *what you want to do*

    There are good books on programming, like TAOCP or CLRS,
    but it's not necessarily what you are looking for.

    You may also find material in university CS sites: there
    is sometimes cool stuff. Start with MIT OCW if you want
    to try this.

    The real question is: what do you want to do with your python ?

    And don't forget to check with google if someone has already
    had the same idea in the same language, such things happen ;-)
    The "filetype:pdf" trick may help !

    > I mean really advanced mental gymnastics, like gory details of how
    > Python objects operate, how to exploit its dynamic capabilities, dos and
    > donts with particular Python objects, advanced tricks, everything from
    > chained decorators to metaprogramming.



    > Dive Into Python comes closest to
    > this ideal from what I have found, but still not far enough.


    I was about to tell you about it :)

    > Anybody found such holy grail?


    'never found a better grail than source code :)
     
    Jean-Claude Arbaut, Jan 16, 2009
    #2
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  3. mk

    Paul Rubin Guest

    mk <> writes:
    > I mean really advanced mental gymnastics, like gory details of how
    > Python objects operate, how to exploit its dynamic capabilities, dos
    > and donts with particular Python objects, advanced tricks, everything
    > from chained decorators to metaprogramming. Dive Into Python comes
    > closest to this ideal from what I have found, but still not far enough.
    >
    > Anybody found such holy grail?


    The favorite ones around here are "Python Cookbook" and "Python in a
    Nutshell", both by Alex Martelli, who used to be a newsgroup regular
    and still stops by from time to time.
     
    Paul Rubin, Jan 16, 2009
    #3
  4. mk

    andrew cooke Guest

    not direct answers, but....

    reading through the recipes can be interesting -
    http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/

    also, reading any good computing book and then wondering how you can
    do that in python can help shed a new light on things.

    andrew
     
    andrew cooke, Jan 17, 2009
    #4
  5. On Jan 16, 9:27 pm, mk <> wrote:
    > Hello everyone,
    >
    > I looked for it I swear, but just can't find it.
    >
    > Most Python books seem to focus on examples of how to call functions
    > from standard library. I don't need that, I have online Python
    > documentation for that.
    >
    > I mean really advanced mental gymnastics, like gory details of how
    > Python objects operate, how to exploit its dynamic capabilities, dos and
    > donts with particular Python objects, advanced tricks, everything from
    > chained decorators to metaprogramming. Dive Into Python comes closest to
    > this ideal from what I have found, but still not far enough.
    >
    > Anybody found such holy grail?
    >
    > Regards,
    > mk


    "Expert Python Programming" by Tarek Ziadé is quite good and I wrote
    a review for it:

    http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=240415

    There is plenty of info about Advanced Python on the net, much more
    than in book form. Come to think of it, there are my Oxford lectures
    (the title was exactly "Advanced Python Programming") and I could
    republish it on my blog, since I cannot find them on the net anymore.

    Michele Simionato
     
    Michele Simionato, Jan 17, 2009
    #5
  6. On Jan 16, 5:27 pm, mk <> wrote:
    > Hello everyone,
    >
    > I looked for it I swear, but just can't find it.
    >
    > Most Python books seem to focus on examples of how to call functions
    > from standard library. I don't need that, I have online Python
    > documentation for that.
    >
    > I mean really advanced mental gymnastics, like gory details of how
    > Python objects operate, how to exploit its dynamic capabilities, dos and
    > donts with particular Python objects, advanced tricks, everything from
    > chained decorators to metaprogramming. Dive Into Python comes closest to
    > this ideal from what I have found, but still not far enough.
    >
    > Anybody found such holy grail?
    >
    > Regards,
    > mk


    I believe that any book will give you enough information about
    python's objects behaviour.
    But if you want to understand the more esoteric aspects of python (I'm
    in the same situation),
    perhaps you should investigate decorators and metaclasses.
    A good starting point is the 3 article series in decorators by Bruce
    Eckel in Artima ( http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=240808
    ).

    I second the suggestion of reading samples and cookbooks, for example
    in ActiveState's site.
    I found particularly interesting one that shows how to implement an
    ORM under 100 lines ( http://code.activestate.com/recipes/496905/ ).
    This script goes deep into black magic and it's clear enough to grasp.

    Luis
     
    Luis M. González, Jan 17, 2009
    #6
  7. 2009/1/17 Michele Simionato <>:
    > "Expert Python Programming" by Tarek Ziadé is quite good and I wrote
    > a review for it:
    >
    > http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=240415


    +1 for this. I'm 3/4 of the way through it, it's pretty good. Covers
    many on the important areas that the more introductory books rightly
    leave out,

    --
    Cheers,
    Simon B.
     
    Simon Brunning, Jan 18, 2009
    #7
  8. mk

    Jeff McNeil Guest

    On Jan 18, 6:35 pm, Simon Brunning <> wrote:
    > 2009/1/17 Michele Simionato <>:
    >
    > > "Expert Python Programming" by Tarek Ziadé is quite good and I wrote
    > > a review for it:

    >
    > >http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=240415

    >
    > +1 for this. I'm 3/4 of the way through it, it's pretty good. Covers
    > many on the important areas that the more introductory books rightly
    > leave out,
    >
    > --
    > Cheers,
    > Simon B.



    I keep a copy of "Python In A Nutshell" on my desk at all times. Most
    of my books are in great shape, but this one is ripped all to hell.
    The sign of a good book. It covers just about everything, though not
    all in extreme depth. It's a great book!

    I've been writing Python for about 4 years now and over the week or so
    I've caught the "I should know more about the internals" bug. As a
    result, I've been trying to trace the interpreter from the start of
    the main function through user code execution. Getting to fully
    understand the C API and the actual CPython implementation is
    something I wish I would have done years ago. I'd suggest you do that
    if you get the chance.
     
    Jeff McNeil, Jan 19, 2009
    #8
  9. Banibrata Dutta, Jan 20, 2009
    #9
  10. mk

    Ethan Furman Guest

    Advanced Python Programming Oxford Lectures [was: Re: *Advanced*Python book?]

    Michele Simionato wrote:
    > On Jan 16, 9:27 pm, mk <> wrote:
    >
    >>Hello everyone,
    >>
    >>I looked for it I swear, but just can't find it.
    >>
    >>Most Python books seem to focus on examples of how to call functions
    >>from standard library. I don't need that, I have online Python
    >>documentation for that.
    >>
    >>I mean really advanced mental gymnastics, like gory details of how
    >>Python objects operate, how to exploit its dynamic capabilities, dos and
    >>donts with particular Python objects, advanced tricks, everything from
    >>chained decorators to metaprogramming. Dive Into Python comes closest to
    >>this ideal from what I have found, but still not far enough.
    >>
    >>Anybody found such holy grail?

    >
    > "Expert Python Programming" by Tarek Ziadé is quite good and I wrote
    > a review for it:
    >
    > http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=240415
    >
    > There is plenty of info about Advanced Python on the net, much more
    > than in book form. Come to think of it, there are my Oxford lectures
    > (the title was exactly "Advanced Python Programming") and I could
    > republish it on my blog, since I cannot find them on the net anymore.
    >
    > Michele Simionato


    Michele,

    Was wondering if you'd had a chance to re-post your lectures -- just did
    a search for them and came up empty, and I would love to read them!

    Many thanks in advance!

    ~Ethan~
     
    Ethan Furman, Mar 25, 2010
    #10
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