advice choosing IDE

Discussion in 'Python' started by Lupe, Aug 18, 2003.

  1. Lupe

    Lupe Guest

    I'm convinced to try Python!

    I've read many posts, and although I recently bought a book on C to start
    learning it, I'd like to give Python a good chance.

    What IDE would you recommend for someone who needs easiness of use with a
    background of Pascal and VB for MS Office? I've definitely changed to
    Linux now and I would like a free IDE either for procedural or object
    oriented programming.

    I'd need an easy help on syntax, if possible with examples and a front end
    debugger with easy trace, breakpoints and watches.

    Programming is not my profession, just a hobby!

    With all this in mind what would be your recommendation? I've read so many
    posts on the subject that I'm confused. For a beginner, I just need one
    solution...

    Lupe
    Lupe, Aug 18, 2003
    #1
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  2. Lupe

    Gerald Klix Guest

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    You may give idle a try. It comes with the python standard distribution
    and should have no installation hassels.
    Under Debian linix it is installed as "idle-python",
    "idle-python2.3" or "idle-python2.x", depending on the
    python version installed.

    If you don't mind installing some additional software
    and an extended startup time you may try Boa Constructor.
    It has - besides many other features - a builtin GUI builder
    and claims to be sort of "Delphi for Python".
    Boa Constructors Home Page can be found at:
    http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/

    HTH,
    Gerald

    Lupe wrote:
    | I'm convinced to try Python!
    |
    | I've read many posts, and although I recently bought a book on C to start
    | learning it, I'd like to give Python a good chance.
    |
    | What IDE would you recommend for someone who needs easiness of use with a
    | background of Pascal and VB for MS Office? I've definitely changed to
    | Linux now and I would like a free IDE either for procedural or object
    | oriented programming.
    |
    | I'd need an easy help on syntax, if possible with examples and a front end
    | debugger with easy trace, breakpoints and watches.
    |
    | Programming is not my profession, just a hobby!
    |
    | With all this in mind what would be your recommendation? I've read so
    many
    | posts on the subject that I'm confused. For a beginner, I just need one
    | solution...
    |
    | Lupe

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    iD8DBQE/QL/pEDg9cqFA1jQRAkSYAJ9Csppn0pGfZKAFn2qIckxbCVYDqACfQsT7
    cLWSeAXW5vPnLg26Ynt3YeI=
    =q8jG
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    Gerald Klix, Aug 18, 2003
    #2
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  3. "Lupe" <> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:bhqe4p$23loq$-berlin.de...
    > I'm convinced to try Python!
    >
    > I've read many posts, and although I recently bought a book on C to start
    > learning it, I'd like to give Python a good chance.
    >
    > What IDE would you recommend for someone who needs easiness of use with a
    > background of Pascal and VB for MS Office? I've definitely changed to
    > Linux now and I would like a free IDE either for procedural or object
    > oriented programming.
    >
    > I'd need an easy help on syntax, if possible with examples and a front end
    > debugger with easy trace, breakpoints and watches.


    Well, I think you will have a hard time ahead. No one who has ever used
    Delphi, VB or RealBasic can really understand in what poore shape Python
    (and Perl is no better) support is ;-)

    The easiest thing would be PythonWorks which however seems to be no longer
    available and has never been free.

    There is no second best.

    The third best would be something like ActiveState's KOMODO Profesional
    (with GUI Builder for Tkinter) runs best under Windows, about 300 $ or
    Archaeopterix Wing IDE Standard (no GUI Bilder) about the same price.

    I personally use IDLE (plain vanille IDE), it has some features, yes. But
    probably not what you expect. There are a lot of versions. I personally like
    0.81 best.

    There are two GUI Toolkits you might like:
    PyQt and their GUI Builder (that would be free for non commercial work) if
    you plan to do *a lot* of GUI applications. The GUI Builder is *not* an
    Python IDE, so that is somewhat off topic ;-)

    Then there is wxPython and something like BoaConstructor, but Boa as well is
    more a GUI Builder than an IDE, thoug it nows a little bit more Python.


    Kindly
    Michael P
    Michael Peuser, Aug 18, 2003
    #3
  4. In article <bhqe4p$23loq$-berlin.de>, Lupe wrote:

    > I'd need an easy help on syntax, if possible with examples and a front end
    > debugger with easy trace, breakpoints and watches.


    I've never used Python's debugger in years of Python programming. Or are
    you asking about C now? I think DDD supports Python debugging, though.

    For Python work I use XEmacs. It has a very good python mode. I just don't
    think Python's syntax is complex enough to need help from an IDE. For
    library help I just keep a link on my browser toolbar to a local copy of
    the Python html docs.

    There are several good IDEs for C, but you should not use their existence as
    an excuse for not learning how to write a Makefile.

    Dave Cook
    David M. Cook, Aug 18, 2003
    #4
  5. On Monday 18 August 2003 1:18 pm, Michael Peuser wrote:
    >
    > There are two GUI Toolkits you might like:
    > PyQt and their GUI Builder (that would be free for non commercial work) if
    > you plan to do *a lot* of GUI applications. The GUI Builder is *not* an
    > Python IDE, so that is somewhat off topic ;-)


    I'll beat Detlev to it this time...

    eric at http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html is a full IDE, written
    in PyQt, that integrates with Qt Designer. It does the usual editing,
    debugging, project management, class browsing - plus access to source code
    control systems, syntax checking, unit testing, profiling, code coverage.
    Latest snaphots include refactoring tools. Etc, etc, etc.

    Phil
    Phil Thompson, Aug 18, 2003
    #5
  6. [Lupe]

    > I've read many posts, and although I recently bought a book on C to start
    > learning it, I'd like to give Python a good chance.


    Hi, Lupe. Just a quick hello, while reading your post.

    My feeling would be that Python is giving you a good chance, more than the
    other way around! :)

    > What IDE would you recommend for someone who needs easiness of use with a
    > background of Pascal and VB for MS Office?


    I have no real advice to offer, as I do not even use MS Office nor VB, yet
    in some past life, I did a great deal of work in Pascal -- the real one! --,
    but still, away from Microsoft systems.

    > I've definitely changed to Linux now and I would like a free IDE either
    > for procedural or object oriented programming. I'd need an easy help on
    > syntax,


    For one, I'm using Emacs for most of my works, which is an editor with many
    capabilities, and which evolved a lot since I learned it. Nowadays, I guess
    it is more affordable to newcomers than it once was, with bitmapped menus
    and widgets, and also keybad and mouse bindings, but I'm not using these
    much yet, and I do really not know how a newcomer would perceive Emacs.

    There is a syntax helper, in form of a templating system named ELSE, which I
    sometimes use with other languages or environments, but I found out it is
    not that helpful for Python, since Python syntax is so clear, uncluttered
    and easy to remember. Probably that the easiest help you can get on Python
    syntax is your own memory, that could be well worth a lot of tools.

    > [...] a front end debugger with easy trace, breakpoints and watches.


    I read many times that `pdb' is accessible from Emacs through GUD (the Grand
    Unified Debugger), it might offer what you want, I do not have enough
    experience with it to confirm everything you ask for. It just never
    happened yet that, for all the programs I wrote in Python so far, one ever
    gave me enough trouble to push me into acquiring experience with GUD/pdb.

    > Programming is not my profession, just a hobby!


    It might make a difference. I progressively learned to write without bugs,
    so debugging after writing is much less important for me now that it has
    been when I was more of a beginner. I'm almost sure that if programming was
    just a hobby, I would be tempted to learn `pdb' and GUD more carefully, and
    early, so I can take advantage of them all along the way.

    Keep happy!

    --
    François Pinard http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard
    =?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois_Pinard?=, Aug 18, 2003
    #6
  7. "Michael Peuser" <> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:bhqo8a$ggs$06$-online.com...
    > My apologies! I was of course refering to the Trolltech QT Builder which

    is
    > a fine product but no integrated Python tool. I have heard of "eric" but
    > never used it.... I certainly will!


    Nevertheless it is no simple task to install it on a Windows machine:
    There seems to be just a source code version of QScintilla (what you need in
    addition to Qt and PyQt).

    This seems nothing for a newbie to start, looking for his first IDE......

    Similar problems (on Windows) happen with GTK related products. This a total
    mess. We poor and simple minded WIndows usesr expect something working just
    out of the box ;-)


    Kindly
    Michael P
    Michael Peuser, Aug 18, 2003
    #7
  8. On Monday 18 August 2003 4:22 pm, Michael Peuser wrote:
    > "Michael Peuser" <> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    > news:bhqo8a$ggs$06$-online.com...
    >
    > > My apologies! I was of course refering to the Trolltech QT Builder which

    >
    > is
    >
    > > a fine product but no integrated Python tool. I have heard of "eric" but
    > > never used it.... I certainly will!

    >
    > Nevertheless it is no simple task to install it on a Windows machine:
    > There seems to be just a source code version of QScintilla (what you need
    > in addition to Qt and PyQt).


    To run eric on Windows you need the commercial or educational versions of Qt
    and PyQt (because QScintilla requires Qt v3).

    > This seems nothing for a newbie to start, looking for his first IDE......


    The original poster was looking for a Linux solution (I think).

    > Similar problems (on Windows) happen with GTK related products. This a
    > total mess. We poor and simple minded WIndows usesr expect something
    > working just out of the box ;-)


    Phil
    Phil Thompson, Aug 18, 2003
    #8
  9. > What IDE would you recommend for someone who needs easiness of use with
    > a background of Pascal and VB for MS Office? I've definitely changed to
    > Linux now and I would like a free IDE either for procedural or object
    > oriented programming.


    J (http://www.armedbear.org/) is more an editor than an IDE, though it
    does offer basic support for Python (indentation, syntax highlighting, a
    simple code browser), but it's a very nice editor especially for someone
    coming from the windows world.

    It's written in Java so it should run out of the box on most modern Linux
    distributions (recent versions require Java 1.4).

    Spend a few minutes reading its help on preferences, it's worth it.

    Good luck!

    Ludo
    Ludovico Magnocavallo, Aug 18, 2003
    #9
  10. Phil Thompson wrote:

    > On Monday 18 August 2003 1:18 pm, Michael Peuser wrote:
    >>
    >> There are two GUI Toolkits you might like:
    >> PyQt and their GUI Builder (that would be free for non commercial
    >> work) if you plan to do *a lot* of GUI applications. The GUI Builder
    >> is *not* an Python IDE, so that is somewhat off topic ;-)

    >
    > I'll beat Detlev to it this time...


    You made it ;-)

    >
    > eric at http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html is a full IDE,
    > written in PyQt, that integrates with Qt Designer. It does the usual
    > editing, debugging, project management, class browsing - plus access to
    > source code control systems, syntax checking, unit testing, profiling,
    > code coverage. Latest snaphots include refactoring tools. Etc, etc,
    > etc.
    >
    > Phil


    And if there is something missing in the "etc, etc, etc" let me know and
    I'll try to implement it.

    Detlev
    --
    Detlev Offenbach
    Detlev Offenbach, Aug 18, 2003
    #10
  11. Lupe

    John J. Lee Guest

    (François Pinard) writes:
    [...]
    > I progressively learned to write without bugs,

    [...]

    François is clearly just about to become obscenely rich from NASA &
    defence contract work. ;-)


    John, wondering where that GNU recode bug I spent some effort trying
    to track done can have come from <0.5 wink>
    John J. Lee, Aug 18, 2003
    #11
  12. Lupe

    Lupe Guest

    Thanks everyone!

    I've got some material... :)

    It's not easy to arrive at a different world (Linux) where everything can be
    customizeable. For a begginner, it's easier to have just 'one solution' in
    first place and then to evolve, but I'll get there!



    Lupe
    Lupe, Aug 18, 2003
    #12
  13. Lupe

    reh Guest

    Detlev Offenbach wrote:
    >>
    >> eric at http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html is a full IDE,
    >> written in PyQt, that integrates with Qt Designer. It does the usual
    >> editing, debugging, project management, class browsing - plus access
    >> to source code control systems, syntax checking, unit testing,
    >> profiling, code coverage. Latest snaphots include refactoring tools.
    >> Etc, etc, etc.
    >>
    >> Phil

    >
    > And if there is something missing in the "etc, etc, etc" let me know
    > and I'll try to implement it.
    >
    > Detlev


    Doing some work in eric between everything else, well done.

    Have a question on Calltips. Have it Enabled. Thought I would see
    something like calltips for functions, but what I see is more
    Autoconfig. Am I missing something.

    thanks;
    --
    robert
    redhat 9.0
    reh, Aug 19, 2003
    #13
  14. reh wrote:

    > Detlev Offenbach wrote:
    >>>
    >>> eric at http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html is a full IDE,
    >>> written in PyQt, that integrates with Qt Designer. It does the usual
    >>> editing, debugging, project management, class browsing - plus access
    >>> to source code control systems, syntax checking, unit testing,
    >>> profiling, code coverage. Latest snaphots include refactoring tools.
    >>> Etc, etc, etc.
    >>>
    >>> Phil

    >>
    >> And if there is something missing in the "etc, etc, etc" let me know
    >> and I'll try to implement it.
    >>
    >> Detlev

    >
    > Doing some work in eric between everything else, well done.
    >
    > Have a question on Calltips. Have it Enabled. Thought I would see
    > something like calltips for functions, but what I see is more
    > Autoconfig. Am I missing something.
    >


    You have to install some api files somewhere and configure their usage
    using the Preferences Dialog. Calltips and Autocompletion both use the
    API files.

    Detlev
    --
    Detlev Offenbach
    Detlev Offenbach, Aug 19, 2003
    #14
  15. Lupe

    Page Guest

    Y2KYZFR1 wrote:
    > Lupe <> wrote in message news:<bhqe4p$23loq$-berlin.de>...
    >
    >>I'm convinced to try Python!
    >>
    >>I've read many posts, and although I recently bought a book on C to start
    >>learning it, I'd like to give Python a good chance.
    >>
    >>What IDE would you recommend for someone who needs easiness of use with a
    >>background of Pascal and VB for MS Office? I've definitely changed to
    >>Linux now and I would like a free IDE either for procedural or object
    >>oriented programming.
    >>
    >>I'd need an easy help on syntax, if possible with examples and a front end
    >>debugger with easy trace, breakpoints and watches.
    >>
    >>Programming is not my profession, just a hobby!
    >>
    >>With all this in mind what would be your recommendation? I've read so many
    >>posts on the subject that I'm confused. For a beginner, I just need one
    >>solution...
    >>
    >>Lupe

    >
    >
    >
    > your best bet is Komodo from ActiveState . . . not free but definately
    > worth the money. The other bet is Visual Python from guess who,
    > ActiveState it add great support for Python to Visual Studio 6 / .Met
    >
    > Last choice would be Visual SlickEdit . . .
    >
    > other than that, Python IDE choices are all just glorified color coded
    > crappy text editors.


    I find Wing IDE to work wonders.
    Has all the essentials you'll need. And works on linux & win32 ;)
    http://archaeopteryx.com/wingide

    HTH
    Page
    Page, Sep 10, 2003
    #15
  16. Lupe

    Bob Gailer Guest

    At 10:01 PM 9/9/2003, Page wrote:
    >I find Wing IDE to work wonders.
    >Has all the essentials you'll need. And works on linux & win32 ;)
    >http://archaeopteryx.com/wingide


    In response to an older post I downloaded wingide. I found it very
    difficult to get started. There seems to be a lot of independent windows
    that open, and its very hard to determine what do to where and when. Is
    there some GOOD tutorial?

    Bob Gailer

    303 442 2625


    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/2003
    Bob Gailer, Sep 10, 2003
    #16
  17. Lupe

    HankC Guest

    On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 14:18:48 +0200, "Michael Peuser" <>
    wrote:

    >
    >Well, I think you will have a hard time ahead. No one who has ever used
    >Delphi, VB or RealBasic can really understand in what poore shape Python
    >(and Perl is no better) support is ;-)
    >


    I beg to differ. I've been programming Delphi professionally for
    about six years so I know the tool well. For Win32 development of
    *anything* other than device drivers it's hands down the best
    development tool, IMO.

    However, 'shape' can be determined by requirements. I'm in the
    process of switching to BOA/Python...

    - Cross platform applications will make me a lot of money.

    - Execution speed isn't a huge issue for me.

    What's wrong with Borland/Delphi?

    - Because of their rapidly expanding product line, including big money
    makers like JBuilder, Delphi is getting less attention (waiting,
    waiting for bug fixes)

    - Kylix is virtually dead, and never was good for generally
    distributed application development because of it's release cycle.

    Granted, BOA/Python has nowhere near the polish of Delphi but OTOH
    Python has better staying power and better cross-platform support.
    From my POV, Python is in better shape than Delphi (VB is in even
    worse shape).
    HankC, Sep 19, 2003
    #17
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