Advice needed for a newbie

[Ramon F Herrera]

Hello all,

My trade is network engineering, support and services. But, on the
side as mostly a hobby, I program. I currently use MS VB6 (try not to
all gasp at once ;-)

Sorry. Too late. We already did and sucked all the air from the room.

-RFH

 

[Lew]

Oh, I was talking about in the source code window. Double click on a
name or word to select the whole word. Press Control-R for
Refactor/Rename, then type the new name. You class file (.java) is
automatically renamed, as are all references in the project. This works
for all identifiers (local variables, method names, class/instance
variables, etc.) not just class names.

There's a third way, too. In the source window, single-click on an item and
right-click. The context menu includes a "Refactor" item.

On my machine, for some reason the Ctrl-R shortcut doesn't work.

 

[Ramon F Herrera]

What I need advice on is as follows: I want to start off small by
making small projects to completion. I'm so used to the VB IDE that I
have become spoiled.

But back to the topic of Java - I need a recommendation on how to
start small and learn more as I go along. I have downloaded Eclipse,
as per my friend's recommendation, and I am also looking at other
things such as Netbeans

Dan:

I have had to learn some things the hard way, so let's share some
gotchas with you.

Is Visual Studio the only IDE you have ever used? I ask that because
my only IDE for a while was JBuilder (the old, non-Eclipsized) and I
felt hesitant to try anything new. I then did some Visual C++,
NetBeans, Eclipse programming, checked out the trial version of IDEA,
downloaded Turbo JBuilder (free) and much to my surprise, said to
myself: "man, all these IDEs are a copycat of each other!".

This is analogous to learning a new operating system or human
language. The hardest language to learn is the *second one* (for me,
it was English). After that, you realize they have a lot in common.

Having said that you must begin your learning with NetBeans. I had
been avoiding it because my queue of things to learn and to read is
huge, but I was pleasantly surprised to see how nice, simple and
intuitive it is. *Specially* if you come from the VS world.

Having said that... You have to acquire a minimum level of competence
on Eclipse, as well. Why? Because none of the two are a superset of
the other (Eclipse comes close, as it does *almost* everything NB
does, and then some!).

What I did (with a lot of help from this NG, they are great) was to
place all my Java source code in a common place:

My Documents | Java Source |

under that, I made some theme related subdirectories (which correspond
to Eclipse "Working Sets", something that doesn't exist in NB - ah!
they are "Solutions" to use your VS terminology) like:

- OpenOffice
- Web Stuff
- Playground (here's were you fool around and kick tires)
etc.

Naturally, you place the projects *source* under those.

I also have 2 folders under my Windows home directory:

- workspace (Eclipse created it and put it there)\
- netbeans (I had to create it and put it there, not to be confused
with .netbeans)

The binary (*.class files live in the above, while all *.java and
images live in the "Java Source") hierarchy.

I can simultaneously have Eclipse and NB running (but it is best to
make all modifications on the Eclipse side - the "why" is left as an
exercise).

One of the things I like above my settings (other than having
*options* which is synonymous with *freedom*) is that I can test
things in both sides.

Cool example: for the life of me, I haven't figured out how to make an
executable jar on Eclipse, and I was digging around NB trying to
discover how to do it there. I was about to conclude that NB does not
support such thing. Then I realized: just click on the icon with the
little broom ("clean and build") and there you have it. It could not
possibly be any easier.

Good luck and welcome. You have made a wise move.

-Ramon

 

[Lew]

I can simultaneously have Eclipse and NB running (but it is best to
make all modifications on the Eclipse side - the "why" is left as an
exercise).

Is it because of the way that Eclipse uses shadow files?

 

[Ramon F Herrera]

Is it because of the way that Eclipse uses shadow files?

I guess it is somewhat related, but I was thinking of the feature that
says: "The file has been modified externally, should I load the
changes?" (or something to that effect). Eclipse wants to make sure
that all files are modified only under its watch (even offline
modification as it keeps an md5sum or something), NetBeans doesn't
give a damn.

-Ramon

 

[Lew]

I guess it is somewhat related, but I was thinking of the feature that
says: "The file has been modified externally, should I load the
changes?" (or something to that effect). Eclipse wants to make sure
that all files are modified only under its watch (even offline
modification as it keeps an md5sum or something), NetBeans doesn't
give a damn.

That's related.

 

[Ramon F Herrera]

hehe I see it's no news to you.

I just ordered Sams Teach Yourself Java 6 in 21 Days from Amazon. I'll
see how it goes, it is only $30.

Thanks again for your responses.

You should download "Thinking in Java"

- It is an award winning book

- The next-to-last version is free

- It is developed almost as OSS. When you read it there are links in
every topic or paragraphs, and you may click and send feedback to the
author. In a very real sense, that book and its companion, "Thinking
in C++", are written by the distributed intelligence.

O'Reilly books are also good, as an axiomatic truth.

-Ramon

 

[Ramon F Herrera]

The IDE: Even when there are a lot of option, in practice they narrow
to these:
* JBuilder (Eclipse with pay)

I beg to differ. There is a version of JBuilder, called "Turbo
JBuilder". It builds upon Eclipse, the download size is 2x, and it is
completely free.

It should also be mentioned that Borland (the JBuilder part of them is
now called CodeGear) has been an active participant in the Eclipse
Foundation from day 1. A lot of the free stuff that we enjoy comes
from them. They want money only for the high end features
(professional and enterprise) which are a total overkill for most
folks.

-Ramon

 

[Ramon F Herrera]

Yeah, they started to sponsor NetBeans sometime around version 1.

I think I have a version 0.0.0.0.001 lying around and the one and only
sponsor was Sun.

-RFH

 

[Ramon F Herrera]

But if I were starting to learn Java, the I'd choose NetBeans. Why:
1. SUN Microsystems has started to sponsor NetBeans. That means a lot,
since every new release spec by sun will be almost at once fit into NB.

All three of them: Java, NetBeans and Eclipse are Open Source
Software. All the "specs" are available, not only to Sun but to the
whole wide world, simultaneously. This is no Microsoft kind of
"cooperation" (aka, bear's hug).

Little known fact: IBM has spent a lot more money and resources (being
much bigger) than Sun.

If NetBeans indeed has the backing provided by Sun (and only Sun,
AFAIK), take a look at the backers of Eclipse:

- IBM
- Oracle
- RedHat
- SAP
- Borland
- Intel
- Nokia
- Wind River
- BEA
- Adobe
- Google
- HP
- etc.

The whole NB-Eclipse schism is product of the Sun (Java's biological
father) vs. IBM (Java's doting adoptive father) rivalry, in which the
Swing/SWT divergence is rooted.

However, we users love it when our preferred companies get together,
and there's reasons to be optimistic. Recently IBM joined the
OpenOffice bandwagon with a bang and gusto to spare. I expect the two
sources of friction above to join in synergy.

-Ramon

 

[Ramon F Herrera]

Little known fact: IBM has spent a lot more money and resources (being
much bigger) than Sun.

.... in Java, that is.

-RFH

 

[Lew]

You should download "Thinking in Java"

- It is an award winning book

- The next-to-last version is free

- It is developed almost as OSS. When you read it there are links in
every topic or paragraphs, and you may click and send feedback to the
author. In a very real sense, that book and its companion, "Thinking
in C++", are written by the distributed intelligence.

That's a bit of a controversial recommendation. It's a good book, but its way
of "Thinking in Java" is a bit eccentric.

 

[Roedy Green]

But back to the topic of Java - I need a recommendation on how to
start small and learn more as I go along.

see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/gettingstarted.html

 

[Roedy Green]

1. I want the actual design of forms, controls, etc. to be one of the
priorities... in terms of time setting things up and ease of
manipulation.

I think Netbeans is ahead on this at the current time, but I have not
used these new features. I am repeating second hand information.

Since you can try all nearly all the IDES free at least for a trial,
try speed dating. See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/ide.html