M
Michael D. Ober
Interesting, I just attempted to tracert rhat's servers and got no DNS
replies.
Mike Ober.
replies.
Mike Ober.
beta2 XHTML compliance? is this necessary. OR STUPID...read UP MICROSOFT
T
Tom Dacon
You know, I've noticed over the years that whenever I called something
STUPID, I later discovered, after I learned a little more about what I was
bitching about, that I just didn't understand the problem...
The same thing could possibly be happening here.
Tom Dacon
Dacon Software Consulting
STUPID, I later discovered, after I learned a little more about what I was
bitching about, that I just didn't understand the problem...
The same thing could possibly be happening here.
Tom Dacon
Dacon Software Consulting
H
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
C
C-Services Holland b.v.
rhat said:
Just because you write a big ass application doesn't mean you know
everything there is to know about some programming language. This is the
reason I monitor newsgroups to spot things and problems I have not
thought of or did not encounter so far.
And I don't know where you are, but over here it's not a holiday.
C
C-Services Holland b.v.
rhat said:
I'm just glad MS is finally adhering to some standard. The reason why
pages display in IE and not in another browser is just because IE
doesn't really compy with standards and thus people do IE specific stuff.
So if enforcing a standard breaks your applications just means you
weren't following standards in the first place.
H
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
rhat said:
Mhm... I have never seen a severe case where a browser was able to render a
non-well-formed HTML document but failed in rendering an according XHTML
document. As Brian says, the main problem is CSS support, not support for
XHTML. Firefox' supports larger parts of CSS than MSIE, and MSIE has some
CSS-related bugs like the box-model bug. The problem I see is that you are
designing websites for MSIE and are consequently wondering why they don't
work in another browser.
C
Cor Ligthert
In the REAL WORLD, 90% is NOT good enough...just like 99% is NOT GOOD
As mostly is done by people who have this standard, never produce a program.
(You never know what will change tomorrow)
Just my thought,
Cor
As mostly is done by people who have this standard, never produce a program.
(You never know what will change tomorrow)
Just my thought,
Cor
C
Cor Ligthert
Rhat,
It is clear, you are living in a small world, which is not the world from
the most visitors to this newsgroups (from which a lot live in the same
country as you). Therefore probably the misunderstandings.
Cor
It is clear, you are living in a small world, which is not the world from
the most visitors to this newsgroups (from which a lot live in the same
country as you). Therefore probably the misunderstandings.
Cor
R
rhat
The reason why you haven't is because you spend all day here in the
newsgroups.
Do you really have an idea how the real world works? probably not
newsgroups.
Do you really have an idea how the real world works? probably not
R
rhat
well, the people here in these newsgroups spend all their days here, day in
and day out, blabbing away, and NOT really solving problems NOR are they
accountable for their decision....and that's why they are here, cause they
can't handle the real world
and day out, blabbing away, and NOT really solving problems NOR are they
accountable for their decision....and that's why they are here, cause they
can't handle the real world
T
Teemu Keiski
Wow, you have raised a nice bit of discussion here. 
I have to say that I don't know all of them (though as a member of
AspInsiders group I've been also requesting and testing these features in
front rows). But I can guarantee that there has been many of them (not
just our group or MVPS but also the ig customers of MS) and I strongly
believe it is to the better direction and to a damn lot better..
Think about developing a publishing system/CMS). There's no way that you'd
be able to handle all the possible variations what there can be in HTML
support today. It's just how it goes, one single clear standard is better
than bunch of incomplete implementations.
It is all still configurable (as other guys in these groups have pointed out
too). I can't see what's so hard in it. You should have issues with v1 also
with this argumentation.
I have to say that I don't know all of them (though as a member of
AspInsiders group I've been also requesting and testing these features in
front rows).
But I can guarantee that there has been many of them (notjust our group or MVPS but also the ig customers of MS) and I strongly
believe it is to the better direction and to a damn lot better..
Think about developing a publishing system/CMS). There's no way that you'd
be able to handle all the possible variations what there can be in HTML
support today. It's just how it goes, one single clear standard is better
than bunch of incomplete implementations.
It is all still configurable (as other guys in these groups have pointed out
too). I can't see what's so hard in it. You should have issues with v1 also
with this argumentation.
R
rhat
MVP --> Most VALUELESS Professional (those who can't make in the real world
but spend endless days on the newsgroups thinking they are smart because
they are able to answer the same trivial questions over and over again.,
thereby getting rewarded by MS with an essentially "WORTHLESS" award of 3
letter to add to their signature and all the while STILL, after ALL THESE
YEARS can't get or KEEP a job because all that knowledge doesn't work in the
real world
BETTER:
MWP --> Most WORTHLESS PROFESSIONAL
Get a LIFE and stop hanging around in the newsgroups as see how the real
world works.
You guys are some of the more incompetent people out there. ALL BOOKS, ALL
KNOWLEDGE, ALL THEORY, blah blah, blah
DEAR MVP/MWP:
HERE, READ UP
CODE OF CONDUCT IN THE REAL WORLD:
Actually get it to work and not sit around day in and day out, talking about
problems and theory.
Actually be accountable and responsible for the decisions you make as
opposed to sitting around in the newsgroups "suggesting things and
architecture"
Actually code something that the real world people can use and get PAID
doing it.
The list can go on and on.
but spend endless days on the newsgroups thinking they are smart because
they are able to answer the same trivial questions over and over again.,
thereby getting rewarded by MS with an essentially "WORTHLESS" award of 3
letter to add to their signature and all the while STILL, after ALL THESE
YEARS can't get or KEEP a job because all that knowledge doesn't work in the
real world
BETTER:
MWP --> Most WORTHLESS PROFESSIONAL
Get a LIFE and stop hanging around in the newsgroups as see how the real
world works.
You guys are some of the more incompetent people out there. ALL BOOKS, ALL
KNOWLEDGE, ALL THEORY, blah blah, blah
DEAR MVP/MWP:
HERE, READ UP
CODE OF CONDUCT IN THE REAL WORLD:
Actually get it to work and not sit around day in and day out, talking about
problems and theory.
Actually be accountable and responsible for the decisions you make as
opposed to sitting around in the newsgroups "suggesting things and
architecture"
Actually code something that the real world people can use and get PAID
doing it.
The list can go on and on.
Herfried K. Wagner said:
T
Teemu Keiski
You are seriously wasting your time. Flaming MVPs doesn't help at all with
your issues, why don't you take the road to MS's feedback tool at MSDN and
shoot the full load there (unless you are just a troll). That's how you get
your views to their attention.
If you keep this level of output coming, we can nothing but laugh.
your issues, why don't you take the road to MS's feedback tool at MSDN and
shoot the full load there (unless you are just a troll). That's how you get
your views to their attention.
If you keep this level of output coming, we can nothing but laugh.
R
rhat
If all you can do is "laugh", that would be a slight improvement an in the
direction of "recovery" for you guys who can't get a job, much less, keep
one.
direction of "recovery" for you guys who can't get a job, much less, keep
one.
R
rhat
YOU, YES YOU!!!
Do you know what a *J* *O* *B* is?
You especially sit around in these newsgroups all day long, posting away
which is NOT the same as programming away.
If you did the later, YOU MIGHT be able to GET / KEEP A JOB.
YOU KNOW THEORY, BOOKS, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. But you don't REALLY and TRULY
know about programming or "getting it to actually work", do you? NO YOU
DON'T. If you did, you would be here answering the same trivial questions
OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
Why don't you get off these newsgroups for once in while and get over your
newsgroup addiction? HOW MANY YEARS have you been here? How many posts have
you made?
Just how in the world can you tell anyone how to do anything if you have
never done it yourself?
Instead all you have is thousands of posts in your name.
Let me ask you, when you apply for a JOB, do you lists all these post and
TIME WASTED flipping around in the newsgroups 7 days a week, 365 days a year
as you don't really have anything else to show for yourself.
MWP = Most WORTHLESS Professionals WHO CAN"T GET/KEEP a J.O.B.
HERE, READ UP your MVP and to the NEWGROUP ADDICTED
CODE OF CONDUCT IN THE REAL WORLD:
Actually get it to work and not sit around day in and day out, talking about
problems and theory.
Actually be accountable and responsible for the decisions you make as
opposed to sitting around in the newsgroups "suggesting things and
architecture"
Actually code something that the real world people can use and get PAID
doing it.
Do you know what a *J* *O* *B* is?
You especially sit around in these newsgroups all day long, posting away
which is NOT the same as programming away.
If you did the later, YOU MIGHT be able to GET / KEEP A JOB.
YOU KNOW THEORY, BOOKS, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. But you don't REALLY and TRULY
know about programming or "getting it to actually work", do you? NO YOU
DON'T. If you did, you would be here answering the same trivial questions
OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
Why don't you get off these newsgroups for once in while and get over your
newsgroup addiction? HOW MANY YEARS have you been here? How many posts have
you made?
Just how in the world can you tell anyone how to do anything if you have
never done it yourself?
Instead all you have is thousands of posts in your name.
Let me ask you, when you apply for a JOB, do you lists all these post and
TIME WASTED flipping around in the newsgroups 7 days a week, 365 days a year
as you don't really have anything else to show for yourself.
MWP = Most WORTHLESS Professionals WHO CAN"T GET/KEEP a J.O.B.
HERE, READ UP your MVP and to the NEWGROUP ADDICTED
CODE OF CONDUCT IN THE REAL WORLD:
Actually get it to work and not sit around day in and day out, talking about
problems and theory.
Actually be accountable and responsible for the decisions you make as
opposed to sitting around in the newsgroups "suggesting things and
architecture"
Actually code something that the real world people can use and get PAID
doing it.
N
Nick Weekes
Dude you have serious issues.
T
Tim McOwan
Hmmm, can't think what's worse so I'll open it to the floor:
a) A technically good programmer who is prepared to spend their time
answering similar minded peoples questions for zero reward
OR
b) A bitter, twisted, probably intellectually flawed, certainly socially
flawed, individual who has developed an irrational and unqualified hatred of
the above.
You decide.
LOL
a) A technically good programmer who is prepared to spend their time
answering similar minded peoples questions for zero reward
OR
b) A bitter, twisted, probably intellectually flawed, certainly socially
flawed, individual who has developed an irrational and unqualified hatred of
the above.
You decide.
LOL
D
Damien
[NGs trimmed to the one I read]
1) Microsoft have decided that ASP.NET should produce standards
compliant output rather than the "tune for New IE/Tune for
Netscape/Tune for ancient browsers" settings of 1.0/1.1
2) That people spend time trying to help people out on newsgroups,
rather than just ignoring anything anyone posts (If that is the case,
why did you post on here in the first place, since "nobody on here
knows anything")
3) That just because in your locality, you have an automatic holiday,
everyone the world over should also be on holiday/not have exchanged an
automatic holiday now for more holiday later in the year/not have a
"hobbyist" interest outside of work and still read the newsgroups?
Is that an accurate summary?
1) Noone is forcing you to upgrade to ASP.NET 2.0. All of your existing
applications can continue to run under 1.0/1.1. *Gasp* on the same box
where you start to deploy ASP.NET 2.0 applications.
2) I mainly spend time on the SQL server groups, but since I've been
spending most of the last 8 months working on web projects, I'm
spending more time on these news groups. If I see someone with a
problem that seems familiar though, I'll try to help them out. Always
have done. Would you rather that all those questions went unanswered?
(Um, that would defeat half the purpose of Usenet)
3) At work I work in VB.NET, C#, ASP.NET and with SQL Server. Lots.
When I'm at home, I work in VB.NET, C#, ASP.NET and SQL Server. On
projects which are of no interest to work. It's called "hobby"
programming, and can be done for various reasons.
Finally, I could give you thr URL for my website. Unfortunately, since
it's for a membership services system, and you're not a
customer/partner, you wouldn't be able to go beyond the login page
(well, okay, you could also go to the terms & conditions page too). It
currently supports three seperate services (Creditor membership, User
Management, Debt Evalutaion), and two new ones are being added before
the end of July (Client Membership and a Gateway application for
further Debt Evaluation).
Would you like further details about how the system is realised, the
single sign-on model, the architecture which provides for maximum
re-use between the separate projects, the database caching mechanism?
Would you like to know how we've worked around limitations in the
existing SQL Server replication model to achieve the results we need?
The complex overnight refresh process?
Damien
So, let me get this straight, your problems are:
1) Microsoft have decided that ASP.NET should produce standards
compliant output rather than the "tune for New IE/Tune for
Netscape/Tune for ancient browsers" settings of 1.0/1.1
2) That people spend time trying to help people out on newsgroups,
rather than just ignoring anything anyone posts (If that is the case,
why did you post on here in the first place, since "nobody on here
knows anything")
3) That just because in your locality, you have an automatic holiday,
everyone the world over should also be on holiday/not have exchanged an
automatic holiday now for more holiday later in the year/not have a
"hobbyist" interest outside of work and still read the newsgroups?
Is that an accurate summary?
1) Noone is forcing you to upgrade to ASP.NET 2.0. All of your existing
applications can continue to run under 1.0/1.1. *Gasp* on the same box
where you start to deploy ASP.NET 2.0 applications.
2) I mainly spend time on the SQL server groups, but since I've been
spending most of the last 8 months working on web projects, I'm
spending more time on these news groups. If I see someone with a
problem that seems familiar though, I'll try to help them out. Always
have done. Would you rather that all those questions went unanswered?
(Um, that would defeat half the purpose of Usenet)
3) At work I work in VB.NET, C#, ASP.NET and with SQL Server. Lots.
When I'm at home, I work in VB.NET, C#, ASP.NET and SQL Server. On
projects which are of no interest to work. It's called "hobby"
programming, and can be done for various reasons.
Finally, I could give you thr URL for my website. Unfortunately, since
it's for a membership services system, and you're not a
customer/partner, you wouldn't be able to go beyond the login page
(well, okay, you could also go to the terms & conditions page too). It
currently supports three seperate services (Creditor membership, User
Management, Debt Evalutaion), and two new ones are being added before
the end of July (Client Membership and a Gateway application for
further Debt Evaluation).
Would you like further details about how the system is realised, the
single sign-on model, the architecture which provides for maximum
re-use between the separate projects, the database caching mechanism?
Would you like to know how we've worked around limitations in the
existing SQL Server replication model to achieve the results we need?
The complex overnight refresh process?
Damien
R
rhat
I know, I do have serious issues when you got MVPs / MWP's who day in and
day out, 365 days a year give advice as if they were *experts* but when in
reality these same people have no real J.O.B. as the spend all day here in
the newsgroups.
Nor have these people ever written a "real world" application that people
use and pay money for yet they think they have the right to tell anyone how
to do their app when they even can't do one themselves. The only thing they
try for, OR can try for, is a 3-letter acronym to add to their signature and
"already" worthless resume by posting constantly so MS will "recognize"
their contributions to the "community". Contributions or CONFUSIONS as these
people have no or very little real world experience and especially couldn't
code an app if their lives depended upon it, but somehow think they know
better than even the worse programmers but at least they have a working app
and they get paid for it and they at least have and know what the 3-letter
acronym J.O.B..is.
day out, 365 days a year give advice as if they were *experts* but when in
reality these same people have no real J.O.B. as the spend all day here in
the newsgroups.
Nor have these people ever written a "real world" application that people
use and pay money for yet they think they have the right to tell anyone how
to do their app when they even can't do one themselves. The only thing they
try for, OR can try for, is a 3-letter acronym to add to their signature and
"already" worthless resume by posting constantly so MS will "recognize"
their contributions to the "community". Contributions or CONFUSIONS as these
people have no or very little real world experience and especially couldn't
code an app if their lives depended upon it, but somehow think they know
better than even the worse programmers but at least they have a working app
and they get paid for it and they at least have and know what the 3-letter
acronym J.O.B..is.
T
Teemu Keiski
Interesting conclusion, especially when you know total 0 about person(s) who
you flame. And as you have 0 facts to prove your point (with the so called
XHTML issue). Unfortunately for you, I already have a job (see, I'm doing
this on my spare time) and quite well paid one. And been for a many years.
Who says I work when you think I do?
All I'm wondering is that if You are so seriously working developer, how can
you You also find the time post here a countless number of posts repeating
the same thing over and over. You must be wasting your valuable time too
(and you are also soon out of a job)
you flame. And as you have 0 facts to prove your point (with the so called
XHTML issue). Unfortunately for you, I already have a job (see, I'm doing
this on my spare time) and quite well paid one. And been for a many years.
Who says I work when you think I do?
All I'm wondering is that if You are so seriously working developer, how can
you You also find the time post here a countless number of posts repeating
the same thing over and over. You must be wasting your valuable time too
(and you are also soon out of a job)