counts the number of hit on a website containing many JSPs

[Jean-Baptiste Nizet]

(e-mail address removed) a écrit :

I didn't say Sun didn't use hyperlinks, I said they used these other
principles to good effect.




No, it won't. Not if the web app is designed with idempotent
transactions, as of course, it should be. Repeating the action would
be a bug.

Don't use a bug as an argument against a technique. Argue against the
technique as it would be used with the bug fixed.

It's not a bug, it's a feature. Browsers do this because posts are
normally used, by the standard, for non-idempotent transactions. Sure
you can make all your transactions idempotent. But not seeing this
dialog box is even better.

Hence no need for that.

Only if you find it OK, as a user, to be forced to click on this dialog
box every now and then. I find it ugly and anti-ergonomic, but everyone
has its own standards.

It's not a big issue. You hit "OK" and the screen refreshes. What's
the big deal?

A normal user doesn't know if your app will behave correctly or not when
seeing this dialog. If I, as a user, buy something on an e-commerce web
site, refresh a page, and see this dialog box, I won't click OK. Because
I know it could cost me money. And I won't return to this site either,
because I know that its developers are sloppy enough, and that my money
or my security could be compromised by their lack of care.

What part of "I was wrong" did you not understand?


Not in the explicit sense of which I was speaking. Also, don't forget
that I am not against hyperlinks, just the indiscriminate use thereof
for internal navigation.

That's not what I understood from your previous post: "If you read up on
the Model-View-Controller pattern, or
JSF, or Struts, or a host of other places you will find that, indeed,
the best-designed web apps never use hyperlinks for internal
navigation"

BTW, I'd like you to show me where in the Struts or any other MVC
framework you have read such a thing.

Once again, I am not against all use of hyperlinks. Obviously you
have identified use cases where the web app opens up certain URLs. I
do not speak against that. I have stated many times in this thread
that web apps can open up certain URLs.


It would not be all the app accepts. Allow me to moderate my position
to say that such things must be done thoughtfully.

Accepted. Use links when it makes sense. Use POST where it makes sense.
Use Ajax when it makes sense.

JB.

 

[Jean-Baptiste Nizet]

Lew a écrit :

Lew:

It's not a bug, it's a feature. Browsers do this because posts are
normally used, by the standard, for non-idempotent transactions. Sure
you can make all your transactions idempotent. But not seeing this
dialog box is even better.

Don't shift ground. I didn't say the refresh dialog was a bug. Of
course it's not a bug. Duhy. I said, "[r]epeating the action", i.e.,
non-idempotency was a bug.

Misunderstanding from both parts. You replied "No it won't" to the text
"This will repeat any action...". The text "This will repeat any
action..." is not a comment of mine. It's displayed in the dialog box.

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

(e-mail address removed) a écrit :

Only if you find it OK, as a user, to be forced to click on this dialog
box every now and then. I find it ugly and anti-ergonomic, but everyone
has its own standards.
>
> A normal user doesn't know if your app will behave correctly or not when
> seeing this dialog. If I, as a user, buy something on an e-commerce web
> site, refresh a page, and see this dialog box, I won't click OK. Because
> I know it could cost me money. And I won't return to this site either,
> because I know that its developers are sloppy enough, and that my money
> or my security could be compromised by their lack of care.

Lookup Synchronizer Token pattern - it is a basic feature
of web apps to prevent that from costing you money.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

I guess I assume too much when I assume that developers will make all
transactions on their sites idempotent, so that their customers need not
worry.

You could argue that this pattern is a way of making the
transaction idempotent. An artificial way for operations
that are not natural idempotent.

It is very well know. It is in Core J2EE Patterns. It has
build in support in Struts.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Lest you thought I was disagreeing with you, in fact I intend to draw
out more information relevant to and supportive of your points.

Actually I were.

But I can be a bit slow sometimes.

Arne