Distrituting Giant Files

Discussion in 'Java' started by Roedy Green, Jan 6, 2006.

  1. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    I have been studying up on the latest BitTorrent.

    see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/bittorrent.html

    It lets you distribute very large files with minimal overhead on your
    part.

    You don't need ANY serverside software. What you do need is a PC
    running BitTorrent client with access to the bundles you want to
    distribute. This is called the seed. If many people download, people
    mostly share the pages with each other. So no matter how many
    downloaders there are, your overhead does not increase.

    So this lets you could distribute whacking create downloads like JVMs,
    radio shows, videos, movies, rants, with minimal investment, justan
    old PC in your LAN.

    There is a Java BitTorrent client called Azureus.

    The only thing you have to do to your server is set up .the .torrent
    mime type application/x-bittorrent.
    --
    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.
     
    Roedy Green, Jan 6, 2006
    #1
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  2. "Roedy Green" <> wrote in
    message news:...
    >I have been studying up on the latest BitTorrent.
    >
    > see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/bittorrent.html
    >
    > It lets you distribute very large files with minimal overhead on your
    > part.
    >
    > You don't need ANY serverside software. What you do need is a PC
    > running BitTorrent client with access to the bundles you want to
    > distribute. This is called the seed. If many people download, people
    > mostly share the pages with each other. So no matter how many
    > downloaders there are, your overhead does not increase.
    >
    > So this lets you could distribute whacking create downloads like JVMs,
    > radio shows, videos, movies, rants, with minimal investment, justan
    > old PC in your LAN.
    >
    > There is a Java BitTorrent client called Azureus.
    >
    > The only thing you have to do to your server is set up .the .torrent
    > mime type application/x-bittorrent.



    I recently downloaded and installed BitTorrent - and I have been generally
    happy with it.

    Don't forget to set up the TCP port forwarding if you, like most people, are
    behind a NAT.

    --
    LTP

    :)
     
    Luc The Perverse, Jan 6, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. In article <>,
    Roedy Green <> wrote:

    > The only thing you have to do to your server is set up .the .torrent
    > mime type application/x-bittorrent.


    There is one other problem - in order to share well, you need to have a
    fixed internal IP and to configure your router to forward a small stash
    of ports.

    I have no a priori problems with opening a port, but my entire internal
    network is set to dhcp, so I do not have to fiddle on remappings. It
    would make my life easier if the BT had implemented UPnP-NAT and
    NAT-PMP. See <http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/posts/2005/Jul> for a
    fairly well described reason why we might want this.

    (I am using Azerus; if other clients do this, I may just switch.)

    Scott

    --
    Scott Ellsworth

    Java and database consulting for the life sciences
     
    Scott Ellsworth, Jan 9, 2006
    #3
  4. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 15:56:26 -0800, Scott Ellsworth <>
    wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

    >
    >(I am using Azerus; if other clients do this, I may just switch.)


    I am using BitTorrent client. One thing I don't like about it is it
    won't tell you if it has successfully negotiated the firewall and what
    ports it is using.
    --
    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.
     
    Roedy Green, Jan 10, 2006
    #4
  5. "Roedy Green" <> wrote in
    message news:...
    > On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 15:56:26 -0800, Scott Ellsworth <>
    > wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
    >
    >>
    >>(I am using Azerus; if other clients do this, I may just switch.)

    >
    > I am using BitTorrent client. One thing I don't like about it is it
    > won't tell you if it has successfully negotiated the firewall and what
    > ports it is using.



    ??? The ports are completely configurable in the settings.

    And if it isn't making it in through the firewall you will know, because
    your speeds will be atrocious (sp?) and no one will ever be able to download
    from you.

    --
    LTP

    :)
     
    Luc The Perverse, Jan 10, 2006
    #5
  6. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 19:31:56 -0700, "Luc The Perverse"
    <> wrote, quoted or indirectly
    quoted someone who said :

    >And if it isn't making it in through the firewall you will know, because
    >your speeds will be atrocious (sp?) and no one will ever be able to download
    >from you.


    The speeds may be atrocious, but if you are a new user, you don't know
    what sort of speed to expect. And for the thing to work you must be
    able to both upload and download, even if inefficiently.

    I would just like it to give you positive feedback you have nailed it.
    --
    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.
     
    Roedy Green, Jan 10, 2006
    #6
  7. "Roedy Green" <> wrote in
    message news:...
    >>And if it isn't making it in through the firewall you will know, because
    >>your speeds will be atrocious (sp?) and no one will ever be able to
    >>download
    >>from you.

    >
    > The speeds may be atrocious, but if you are a new user, you don't know
    > what sort of speed to expect. And for the thing to work you must be
    > able to both upload and download, even if inefficiently.
    >
    > I would just like it to give you positive feedback you have nailed it.



    Well yeah I do see what you mean.

    Maybe even a test button?

    You could always make it a student project.

    --
    LTP

    :)
     
    Luc The Perverse, Jan 10, 2006
    #7
  8. Roedy Green wrote:
    > On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 15:56:26 -0800, Scott Ellsworth <>
    > wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
    >
    >> (I am using Azerus; if other clients do this, I may just switch.)

    >
    > I am using BitTorrent client. One thing I don't like about it is it
    > won't tell you if it has successfully negotiated the firewall and what
    > ports it is using.


    Roedy,

    I suggest you take a look at Azureus. As a java programmer
    yourself you might appreciate the fact that it is a pure java
    application (using SWT though, I think). It has a tool to test
    your incoming connectivity (I guess it calls their server for a
    callback, but haven't traced it to be sure). And it has an
    awsomely wide configuration and setup. Also a pretty graphical
    representation of all the chunks being exchanged between yourself
    and peers. I think it's a real tour-de-force.

    Steve
     
    Steve Horsley, Jan 10, 2006
    #8
  9. Roedy Green

    IchBin Guest

    Steve Horsley wrote:
    > Roedy Green wrote:
    >> On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 15:56:26 -0800, Scott Ellsworth <>
    >> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
    >>
    >>> (I am using Azerus; if other clients do this, I may just switch.)

    >>
    >> I am using BitTorrent client. One thing I don't like about it is it
    >> won't tell you if it has successfully negotiated the firewall and what
    >> ports it is using.

    >
    > Roedy,
    >
    > I suggest you take a look at Azureus. As a java programmer yourself you
    > might appreciate the fact that it is a pure java application (using SWT
    > though, I think). It has a tool to test your incoming connectivity (I
    > guess it calls their server for a callback, but haven't traced it to be
    > sure). And it has an awsomely wide configuration and setup. Also a
    > pretty graphical representation of all the chunks being exchanged
    > between yourself and peers. I think it's a real tour-de-force.
    >
    > Steve

    Cool..

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azureus
    --

    Thanks in Advance...
    IchBin, Pocono Lake, Pa, USA
    http://weconsultants.servebeer.com/JHackerAppManager
    __________________________________________________________________________

    'If there is one, Knowledge is the "Fountain of Youth"'
    -William E. Taylor, Regular Guy (1952-)
     
    IchBin, Jan 10, 2006
    #9
  10. Roedy Green

    Oliver Wong Guest

    "Roedy Green" <> wrote in
    message news:...
    >I have been studying up on the latest BitTorrent.
    >
    > see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/bittorrent.html
    >
    > It lets you distribute very large files with minimal overhead on your
    > part.
    >
    > You don't need ANY serverside software. What you do need is a PC
    > running BitTorrent client with access to the bundles you want to
    > distribute. This is called the seed. If many people download, people
    > mostly share the pages with each other. So no matter how many
    > downloaders there are, your overhead does not increase.
    >
    > So this lets you could distribute whacking create downloads like JVMs,
    > radio shows, videos, movies, rants, with minimal investment, justan
    > old PC in your LAN.
    >
    > There is a Java BitTorrent client called Azureus.
    >
    > The only thing you have to do to your server is set up .the .torrent
    > mime type application/x-bittorrent.


    I'm fascinated by the bittorrent protocol and often wonder how it
    manages to achieve the efficientcy that it does, especially since it does
    not seem to be conceptually radically different from, for example, the
    eDonkey protocol, and yet consistently outperforms the eDonkey protocol. As
    part of an examination for a university course on TCP/IP and Internet
    Protocol in general, I chose to research and write a bit about the
    bittorrent protocol. One of these days, I'll have to take a look at eDonkey,
    and try to figure out exactly what key element is missing to give eDonkey
    the same performance.

    In the traditional bittorrent protocol, you DO need a server. It's
    referred to as a "tracker", and all the peers connect to the tracker to
    announce their presence, and locate other peers. The tracker does not itself
    host any files (other than the .torrent file, which is usually less than 10
    kilobytes), which is why it may seem at first like no server is involved.

    Traditionally, every torrent is related to exactly one tracker, but a
    tracker can host multiple torrents at a time. A user can download from
    multiple torrents at a time. Whether a single instance of the application is
    run to manage all the torrents, or a new instance is created for each
    torrent, is left up to the implementor of the client program.

    The people behind Azureus created an extension to the bittorrent
    protocol that allows it to discover new peers without a tracker. Azureus
    uses a single instance of manage all the torrents the user wishes to
    download. As such, a single instance of Azureus could be connected to
    multiple trackers simultaneously. When an Azureus client discovers another
    Azureus client as a peer, they will exchange a list of known peers, thus
    allowing the discovery of new peers without the usage of a tracker.

    Since then, other clients of the bittorrent protocol have implemented
    support for Azureus' trackerless extension, but it is a "only" a defacto
    standard, not one officially endorsed by the creators of the bittorrent
    protocol.

    Also, some trackers were meant to be private (e.g. sharing family home
    videos that you don't want others to see, or sharing illegal software that
    you don't want other people to know about, etc.), and so yet another
    extension was created ontop of Azureus' extension which allows for specific
    torrents to be marked as "private", meaning that a well-behaving client
    should not share peers that it located via a private torrent.

    Not all clients have implemented the above "private" extension, and so
    the tracker softwares have been modified to blacklist certain clients which
    do not respect the private flag, thus bring more awareness to the fact that
    bittorrent is still, at its core, a server oriented protocol.

    - Oliver
     
    Oliver Wong, Jan 10, 2006
    #10
  11. On 2006-01-06, Luc The Perverse penned:
    >
    > I recently downloaded and installed BitTorrent - and I have been
    > generally happy with it.
    >
    > Don't forget to set up the TCP port forwarding if you, like most
    > people, are behind a NAT.


    This does get annoying. My husband and I have separate computers
    (well, okay, several each), so we're constantly going into the
    router's port forwarding tool to remap to one machine or the other.

    --
    monique

    Ask smart questions, get good answers:
    http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
     
    Monique Y. Mudama, Jan 10, 2006
    #11
  12. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:46:37 -0700, "Monique Y. Mudama"
    <> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
    said :

    >This does get annoying. My husband and I have separate computers
    >(well, okay, several each), so we're constantly going into the
    >router's port forwarding tool to remap to one machine or the other.


    I don't think you need to do that, at least for BitTorrent. You take
    addresses 10000..1000F and your husband take 10010..1001F and leave
    them both forwarded all the time.
    --
    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.
     
    Roedy Green, Jan 10, 2006
    #12
  13. On 2006-01-10, Roedy Green penned:
    > On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:46:37 -0700, "Monique Y. Mudama"
    ><> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
    >who said :
    >
    >>This does get annoying. My husband and I have separate computers
    >>(well, okay, several each), so we're constantly going into the
    >>router's port forwarding tool to remap to one machine or the other.

    >
    > I don't think you need to do that, at least for BitTorrent. You
    > take addresses 10000..1000F and your husband take 10010..1001F and
    > leave them both forwarded all the time.


    It's partly a problem because the World of Warcraft patcher uses
    BitTorrent under the hood, but doesn't give you any way of tweaking
    the settings.

    --
    monique

    Ask smart questions, get good answers:
    http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
     
    Monique Y. Mudama, Jan 10, 2006
    #13
  14. "Monique Y. Mudama" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 2006-01-10, Roedy Green penned:
    >> On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:46:37 -0700, "Monique Y. Mudama"
    >><> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
    >>who said :
    >>
    >>>This does get annoying. My husband and I have separate computers
    >>>(well, okay, several each), so we're constantly going into the
    >>>router's port forwarding tool to remap to one machine or the other.

    >>
    >> I don't think you need to do that, at least for BitTorrent. You
    >> take addresses 10000..1000F and your husband take 10010..1001F and
    >> leave them both forwarded all the time.

    >
    > It's partly a problem because the World of Warcraft patcher uses
    > BitTorrent under the hood, but doesn't give you any way of tweaking
    > the settings.



    Are you sure it uses just a single port? Maybe you could give half to one
    machine and half to another (I mean if it uses more than one single port.)

    --
    LTP

    :)
     
    Luc The Perverse, Jan 11, 2006
    #14
  15. In article <>,
    "Luc The Perverse" <> wrote:

    > "Roedy Green" <> wrote in
    > message news:...
    > >>And if it isn't making it in through the firewall you will know, because
    > >>your speeds will be atrocious (sp?) and no one will ever be able to
    > >>download
    > >>from you.

    > >
    > > The speeds may be atrocious, but if you are a new user, you don't know
    > > what sort of speed to expect. And for the thing to work you must be
    > > able to both upload and download, even if inefficiently.
    > >
    > > I would just like it to give you positive feedback you have nailed it.

    >
    >
    > Well yeah I do see what you mean.
    >
    > Maybe even a test button?
    >
    > You could always make it a student project.


    I would vote for adding the uPNP and NAT-PMP support to the student
    projects list, were it a voting matter.

    Scott

    --
    Scott Ellsworth

    Java and database consulting for the life sciences
     
    Scott Ellsworth, Jan 11, 2006
    #15
  16. "Scott Ellsworth" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <>,
    > "Luc The Perverse" <> wrote:
    >
    >> "Roedy Green" <> wrote in
    >> message news:...
    >> >>And if it isn't making it in through the firewall you will know,
    >> >>because
    >> >>your speeds will be atrocious (sp?) and no one will ever be able to
    >> >>download
    >> >>from you.
    >> >
    >> > The speeds may be atrocious, but if you are a new user, you don't know
    >> > what sort of speed to expect. And for the thing to work you must be
    >> > able to both upload and download, even if inefficiently.
    >> >
    >> > I would just like it to give you positive feedback you have nailed it.

    >>
    >>
    >> Well yeah I do see what you mean.
    >>
    >> Maybe even a test button?
    >>
    >> You could always make it a student project.

    >
    > I would vote for adding the uPNP and NAT-PMP support to the student
    > projects list, were it a voting matter.



    And so might I, were I to know what those were.

    Let's see.

    uPNP . . . . **googling** . . . Ok that IS what I thought that meant.

    Oh you mean for other student projects! Isn't uPNP more of an OS related
    task? Microsoft already supports it sure linux will soon if it doesn't
    already.



    --
    LTP

    :)
     
    Luc The Perverse, Jan 11, 2006
    #16
  17. Roedy Green

    Oliver Wong Guest

    "Monique Y. Mudama" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 2006-01-10, Roedy Green penned:
    >> On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:46:37 -0700, "Monique Y. Mudama"
    >><> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
    >>who said :
    >>
    >>>This does get annoying. My husband and I have separate computers
    >>>(well, okay, several each), so we're constantly going into the
    >>>router's port forwarding tool to remap to one machine or the other.

    >>
    >> I don't think you need to do that, at least for BitTorrent. You
    >> take addresses 10000..1000F and your husband take 10010..1001F and
    >> leave them both forwarded all the time.

    >
    > It's partly a problem because the World of Warcraft patcher uses
    > BitTorrent under the hood, but doesn't give you any way of tweaking
    > the settings.


    If you use a standard Win32 resource editor, you can open the .EXE file
    that blizzard distributes, extract the .torrent file, and download the
    patches using your preferred client.

    - Oliver
     
    Oliver Wong, Jan 11, 2006
    #17
  18. In article <>,
    "Luc The Perverse" <> wrote:

    > "Scott Ellsworth" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > In article <>,
    > > "Luc The Perverse" <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> "Roedy Green" <> wrote in
    > >> message news:...
    > >> >>And if it isn't making it in through the firewall you will know,
    > >> >>because
    > >> >>your speeds will be atrocious (sp?) and no one will ever be able to
    > >> >>download
    > >> >>from you.
    > >> >
    > >> > The speeds may be atrocious, but if you are a new user, you don't know
    > >> > what sort of speed to expect. And for the thing to work you must be
    > >> > able to both upload and download, even if inefficiently.
    > >> >
    > >> > I would just like it to give you positive feedback you have nailed it.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Well yeah I do see what you mean.
    > >>
    > >> Maybe even a test button?
    > >>
    > >> You could always make it a student project.

    > >
    > > I would vote for adding the uPNP and NAT-PMP support to the student
    > > projects list, were it a voting matter.

    >
    >
    > And so might I, were I to know what those were.
    >
    > Let's see.
    >
    > uPNP . . . . **googling** . . . Ok that IS what I thought that meant.
    >
    > Oh you mean for other student projects! Isn't uPNP more of an OS related
    > task? Microsoft already supports it sure linux will soon if it doesn't
    > already.


    Oh - I should have been clearer - adding NAT-PMP to BitTorrent.

    It is something that the individual application can choose to support.
    If supported, it lets that app tell the firewall that it wants to open a
    hole.

    The security implications are interesting, but if you are running BT,
    then you have obviously settled those to your own satisfaction, and if
    the router owner disagrees, then he or she can leave it deactivated.

    Scott

    --
    Scott Ellsworth

    Java and database consulting for the life sciences
     
    Scott Ellsworth, Jan 12, 2006
    #18
  19. "Scott Ellsworth" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <>,
    > "Luc The Perverse" <> wrote:
    >
    >> "Scott Ellsworth" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >> > In article <>,
    >> > "Luc The Perverse" <> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> "Roedy Green" <> wrote
    >> >> in
    >> >> message news:...
    >> >> >>And if it isn't making it in through the firewall you will know,
    >> >> >>because
    >> >> >>your speeds will be atrocious (sp?) and no one will ever be able to
    >> >> >>download
    >> >> >>from you.
    >> >> >
    >> >> > The speeds may be atrocious, but if you are a new user, you don't
    >> >> > know
    >> >> > what sort of speed to expect. And for the thing to work you must be
    >> >> > able to both upload and download, even if inefficiently.
    >> >> >
    >> >> > I would just like it to give you positive feedback you have nailed
    >> >> > it.
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >> Well yeah I do see what you mean.
    >> >>
    >> >> Maybe even a test button?
    >> >>
    >> >> You could always make it a student project.
    >> >
    >> > I would vote for adding the uPNP and NAT-PMP support to the student
    >> > projects list, were it a voting matter.

    >>
    >>
    >> And so might I, were I to know what those were.
    >>
    >> Let's see.
    >>
    >> uPNP . . . . **googling** . . . Ok that IS what I thought that meant.
    >>
    >> Oh you mean for other student projects! Isn't uPNP more of an OS related
    >> task? Microsoft already supports it sure linux will soon if it doesn't
    >> already.

    >
    > Oh - I should have been clearer - adding NAT-PMP to BitTorrent.
    >
    > It is something that the individual application can choose to support.
    > If supported, it lets that app tell the firewall that it wants to open a
    > hole.
    >
    > The security implications are interesting, but if you are running BT,
    > then you have obviously settled those to your own satisfaction, and if
    > the router owner disagrees, then he or she can leave it deactivated.



    You mean dynamically asking a NAT to forward ports to your IP; I agree that
    would be friggin awesome!

    --
    LTP

    :)
     
    Luc The Perverse, Jan 12, 2006
    #19
  20. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:26:35 -0700, "Luc The Perverse"
    <> wrote, quoted or indirectly
    quoted someone who said :

    >
    >Maybe even a test button?
    >
    >You could always make it a student project.


    done. See fhttp://mindprod.com/projects/natcracker.html
    NAT Cracker : autoconfigure A NAT router.
    --
    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.
     
    Roedy Green, Jan 12, 2006
    #20
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