Easy CGI Languages.

Discussion in 'HTML' started by leke, Sep 8, 2004.

  1. leke

    leke Guest

    Not sure if this is the right place to be asking this...
    I'm a graphic designer just moving into CGI web page creation. I solel
    want learn a programming language for doing CGI scripts.
    I need a language that is relatively quick and easy to learn, and i
    supported by many Web hosts (including free ones).
    I have done lots of browsing, but without a good, long time workin
    knowledge of languages it's hard to judge what's best.

    What I know (which is not a lot):
    I know most servers support Perl, but I want to try and steer clear o
    Perl because it frightens me (well Perl and Regular Expressions).
    I'm learning REBOL at the moment because I think it's real easy fo
    doing CGI stuff (and no Regex)!
    Only thing is that not a lot of hosts support REBOL (and no free one
    at present).

    Which languages are you guys using to do your CGI?
    Heard of any new languages worth having a look at?

    Thanks ,
    L


    -
    lek
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Posted via http://www.forum4designers.co
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    View this thread: http://www.forum4designers.com/message116600.htm
     
    leke, Sep 8, 2004
    #1
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  2. leke

    Jim Higson Guest

    leke wrote:

    >
    > Not sure if this is the right place to be asking this...
    > I'm a graphic designer just moving into CGI web page creation. I solely
    > want learn a programming language for doing CGI scripts.
    > I need a language that is relatively quick and easy to learn, and is
    > supported by many Web hosts (including free ones).
    > I have done lots of browsing, but without a good, long time working
    > knowledge of languages it's hard to judge what's best.
    >
    > What I know (which is not a lot):
    > I know most servers support Perl, but I want to try and steer clear of
    > Perl because it frightens me (well Perl and Regular Expressions).
    > I'm learning REBOL at the moment because I think it's real easy for
    > doing CGI stuff (and no Regex)!
    > Only thing is that not a lot of hosts support REBOL (and no free ones
    > at present).
    >
    > Which languages are you guys using to do your CGI?
    > Heard of any new languages worth having a look at?
    >
    > Thanks ,
    > L.


    Not technically a language, and it depends waht you want to do, but XSLT is
    powerful and not too difficult.

    It can be used to create filters that transform one XML format to another,
    for example XML data in a database to XHTML webpages.
     
    Jim Higson, Sep 8, 2004
    #2
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  3. leke

    Alan Guest

    Look at php - you can do anything perl can do without the hassle

    A

    "leke" <4designers.com> wrote in message
    news:4designers.com...
    >
    > Not sure if this is the right place to be asking this...
    > I'm a graphic designer just moving into CGI web page creation. I solely
    > want learn a programming language for doing CGI scripts.
    > I need a language that is relatively quick and easy to learn, and is
    > supported by many Web hosts (including free ones).
    > I have done lots of browsing, but without a good, long time working
    > knowledge of languages it's hard to judge what's best.
    >
    > What I know (which is not a lot):
    > I know most servers support Perl, but I want to try and steer clear of
    > Perl because it frightens me (well Perl and Regular Expressions).
    > I'm learning REBOL at the moment because I think it's real easy for
    > doing CGI stuff (and no Regex)!
    > Only thing is that not a lot of hosts support REBOL (and no free ones
    > at present).
    >
    > Which languages are you guys using to do your CGI?
    > Heard of any new languages worth having a look at?
    >
    > Thanks ,
    > L.
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > leke
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > Posted via http://www.forum4designers.com
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > View this thread: http://www.forum4designers.com/message116600.html
    >
    >
    >
     
    Alan, Sep 8, 2004
    #3
  4. leke

    Toby Inkster Guest

    leke wrote:

    > I need a language that is relatively quick and easy to learn, and is
    > supported by many Web hosts (including free ones).
    > [...]
    > I know most servers support Perl, but I want to try and steer clear of
    > Perl because it frightens me (well Perl and Regular Expressions).


    Perl can look scary, but it's actually pretty easy. Although lines like:

    $x=~s#foo#bar#gi;

    can look very confusing (in the above example, could be made a lot clearer
    with better spacing and some comments!) you'll find that Perl's flexibility
    allows you to code the way that you think; and doesn't force you to think
    the way that you code.

    PHP is quite similar to Perl. The syntax *looks* a lot cleaner but in
    reality the language is just as much of a mess as Perl -- maybe more so.
    For reference the above line of code in PHP would be:

    $x = preg_replace('/foo/', 'bar', $x);

    C is very widely supported, but realistically you will need shell access
    to the server to use C. The C language itself is quite clean, but it's not
    really specialised towards string manipulation like Perl and PHP are, so
    you'd end up doing a lot more work to achieve the same effect.

    Shell scripting (bash, tcsh and friends) are supported very widely too.
    Again, they're not as good at string processing as Perl and PHP, but they
    do come in handy for a lot of simpler scripts.

    Python is another option, though not as widely supported as the others.
    I'm not all that familiar with it though, so I'll defer judgement. Ditto
    Ruby.

    If you're on a Windows host then you can probably script in any language
    supported by the WSH, which includes Perl and Python and also JScript and
    VBScript and a few others.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
     
    Toby Inkster, Sep 8, 2004
    #4
  5. leke wrote:
    > I solely want learn a programming language for doing CGI scripts.


    Try Python. It has very clear code, and the web host support should be
    reasonably decent.
     
    Leif K-Brooks, Sep 8, 2004
    #5
  6. leke

    Mitja Guest

    leke <4designers.com>
    (news:4designers.com) wrote:
    > Not sure if this is the right place to be asking this...
    > I'm a graphic designer just moving into CGI web page
    > creation. I solely want learn a programming language for
    > doing CGI scripts.
    > I need a language that is relatively quick and easy to
    > learn, and is supported by many Web hosts (including free
    > ones).


    For a beginner, I'd recommend python - it's very intuitive and easy to learn while at the same time powerful enough for nearly
    anything. Support is not as good as that for perl, but if you find an appropriate host, I'd say go for it.

    If getting as wide a range of hosts as possible is what really counts, then php is probably the way to go, though perl and asp are
    very well supported on linux and windows-based servers, respectively. It is however true that perl can be complicated for a beginner
    and that asp lacks power and is often clumsy - so that's why php.
     
    Mitja, Sep 8, 2004
    #6
  7. leke

    Mel Guest

    leke <4designers.com> wrote in message news:<4designers.com>...
    > Not sure if this is the right place to be asking this...
    > I'm a graphic designer just moving into CGI web page creation. I solely
    > want learn a programming language for doing CGI scripts.
    > I need a language that is relatively quick and easy to learn, and is
    > supported by many Web hosts (including free ones).
    > I have done lots of browsing, but without a good, long time working
    > knowledge of languages it's hard to judge what's best.
    >
    > What I know (which is not a lot):
    > I know most servers support Perl, but I want to try and steer clear of
    > Perl because it frightens me (well Perl and Regular Expressions).
    > I'm learning REBOL at the moment because I think it's real easy for
    > doing CGI stuff (and no Regex)!
    > Only thing is that not a lot of hosts support REBOL (and no free ones
    > at present).
    >
    > Which languages are you guys using to do your CGI?
    > Heard of any new languages worth having a look at?
    >
    > Thanks ,
    > L.


    You can Try: http://Toolkit.RedOlive.com
    Its a complete programming environment using "REAL-LANGUAGE" instead
    of <@#$> tags. You make a function call to get a tabnotebook, error
    dialog etc. It is free for personal use and you will be up and running
    in less than 5 minutes. Resonable doumentation and a Sandbox to play
    with. Cut and paste examples into the sandbox and see what you get,
    then move it to your application.

    Mel
     
    Mel, Sep 8, 2004
    #7
  8. leke

    Art Sackett Guest

    Alan <> wrote:
    > Look at php - you can do anything perl can do without the hassle


    Um, no, PHP cannot do anything that perl can do. It might appear that
    way to someone who doesn't grok perl, and that someone might be well
    served by PHP, but that's not the same as doing everything perl can do.

    --
    Art Sackett,
    Patron Saint of Drunken Fornication
     
    Art Sackett, Sep 8, 2004
    #8
  9. leke

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 05:04:46 -0500, leke
    <4designers.com> wrote:

    >Which languages are you guys using to do your CGI?


    I haven't done CGI in years. I write server back-ends, but I don't
    use CGI to connect to them.


    As a suggestion for languages, I'd suggest PHP. It's not very good,
    but it's relatively easy to learn and it's dead easy to find hosts
    for.

    If you do want to use Perl, go with mod_perl rather than CGI
    (naturally you'll be using Apaches as the web server)
    --
    Smert' spamionam
     
    Andy Dingley, Sep 9, 2004
    #9
  10. leke

    Nik Coughin Guest

    Art Sackett wrote:
    > Alan <> wrote:
    >> Look at php - you can do anything perl can do without the hassle

    >
    > Um, no, PHP cannot do anything that perl can do. It might appear that
    > way to someone who doesn't grok perl, and that someone might be well
    > served by PHP, but that's not the same as doing everything perl can
    > do.


    Maybe not so in practise, but in theory can't any Turing-complete language
    do anything that any other Turing-complete language can do? What can Perl
    do that PHP can't? I'm not trying to start a debate BTW, I'm just curious.
     
    Nik Coughin, Sep 9, 2004
    #10
  11. leke

    WebcastMaker Guest

    In article <4designers.com>,
    4designers.com says...
    >
    > Not sure if this is the right place to be asking this...
    > I'm a graphic designer just moving into CGI web page creation. I solely
    > want learn a programming language for doing CGI scripts.


    God forbid someone suggests ASP.
    --
    WebcastMaker
    Webcasting for free
    http://www.webentations.com
     
    WebcastMaker, Sep 9, 2004
    #11
  12. leke

    Jeff Thies Guest

    WebcastMaker wrote:
    > In article <4designers.com>,
    > 4designers.com says...
    >
    >>Not sure if this is the right place to be asking this...
    >>I'm a graphic designer just moving into CGI web page creation. I solely
    >>want learn a programming language for doing CGI scripts.

    >
    >
    > God forbid someone suggests ASP.


    The spawn of Satan isn't a CGI.

    Jeff
     
    Jeff Thies, Sep 9, 2004
    #12
  13. leke

    Adrienne Guest

    Gazing into my crystal ball I observed WebcastMaker <>
    writing in news::

    > In article <4designers.com>,
    > 4designers.com says...
    >>
    >> Not sure if this is the right place to be asking this...
    >> I'm a graphic designer just moving into CGI web page creation. I solely
    >> want learn a programming language for doing CGI scripts.

    >
    > God forbid someone suggests ASP.


    ASP has its good points, it's pretty easy to use. The only real problem is
    ASP seems to want to use components, and they're usually not free. That's
    why I'm a roll yer own kinda gal.

    --
    Adrienne Boswell
    Please respond to the group so others can share
     
    Adrienne, Sep 9, 2004
    #13
  14. leke

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Nik Coughin wrote:
    > Art Sackett wrote:
    >> Alan <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Look at php - you can do anything perl can do without the hassle

    >>
    >> Um, no, PHP cannot do anything that perl can do.

    >
    > Maybe not so in practise, but in theory can't any Turing-complete language
    > do anything that any other Turing-complete language can do?


    True, but there are some things that are infintely easier in Perl than
    PHP.

    For example, writing a GUI media player in PHP would be hard because
    AFAIK PHP doesn't have any libraries to play multimedia files -- you'd
    have to write those functions and *then* write your media player. Compare
    this with Perl where you can write an OGG player in under 350 lines of
    code:
    http://tobyinkster.co.uk/jukebox

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
     
    Toby Inkster, Sep 9, 2004
    #14
  15. leke wrote:
    > Not sure if this is the right place to be asking this...
    > I'm a graphic designer just moving into CGI web page creation. I solely
    > want learn a programming language for doing CGI scripts.
    > I need a language that is relatively quick and easy to learn, and is
    > supported by many Web hosts (including free ones).
    > I have done lots of browsing, but without a good, long time working
    > knowledge of languages it's hard to judge what's best.
    >
    > What I know (which is not a lot):
    > I know most servers support Perl, but I want to try and steer clear of
    > Perl because it frightens me (well Perl and Regular Expressions).
    > I'm learning REBOL at the moment because I think it's real easy for
    > doing CGI stuff (and no Regex)!
    > Only thing is that not a lot of hosts support REBOL (and no free ones
    > at present).
    >
    > Which languages are you guys using to do your CGI?
    > Heard of any new languages worth having a look at?
    >
    > Thanks ,
    > L.


    If you want support of free hosting, then PHP is definitely the way to
    go. You can go learn Perl if you want to know what things like $_ and
    @! mean, otherwise go with PHP and you deal with things like $_SERVER
    and $_POST. For large applications developed by many people, ASP.Net
    is great, but in your case the extra hosting cost might not make it
    worth your while. Someone suggested C, but I'd steer away from that.
    Only if you need maximum speed, use C++ with STL.

    Here is a quick and dirty PHP tutorial I made a long time ago:

    http://www.somacon.com/phptutorial/

    Regex are scary because they are so condensed. It is literally like
    learning a new alphabet in a different language, with who knows how
    many characters (maybe 50). I swear it was easier for me to learn the
    Hindi alphabet than it was for me to learn the Regex alphabet. Here
    is a quick Perl intro I wrote a little while ago:

    http://www.somacon.com/docs/perl_regular_expressions_by_example.php
     
    Shailesh Humbad, Sep 9, 2004
    #15
  16. leke

    rf Guest

    Toby Inkster

    > True, but there are some things that are infintely easier in Perl than
    > PHP.
    >
    > For example, writing a GUI media player in PHP would be hard because
    > AFAIK PHP doesn't have any libraries to play multimedia files -- you'd
    > have to write those functions and *then* write your media player. Compare
    > this with Perl where you can write an OGG player in under 350 lines of
    > code:
    > http://tobyinkster.co.uk/jukebox


    Now *I* am confused.

    Are not Perl and PHP server side things (yes I know IIRC perl can be used to
    "write" things);

    Is a server side thing ever expected to be able to play MM files and do GUI
    stuff? That is surely the realm of client side. Who would be "listening" to
    the server side MM? The webmaster? It would be a cacophony :)

    Rephrasing the question posed: As a *server side thing*, and limited to a
    *server side stuff* how is Perl better than PHP?

    The OP clearly states CGI languages, implying server side. Or, on the other
    hand, am I missing something :)

    --
    Cheers
    Richard, who has never even seen a line of perl code.
     
    rf, Sep 9, 2004
    #16
  17. leke

    Toby Inkster Guest

    rf wrote:
    > Toby Inkster wrote:
    >
    >> For example, writing a GUI media player in PHP would be hard because
    >> AFAIK PHP doesn't have any libraries to play multimedia files
    >> [...] http://tobyinkster.co.uk/jukebox

    >
    > Are not Perl and PHP server side things (yes I know IIRC perl can be
    > used to "write" things); [...] That is surely the realm of client side.
    > Who would be "listening" to the server side MM?


    The media player is most certainly client side -- there is no server -- it
    has nothing to do with the web -- it's just written in Perl.

    > Rephrasing the question posed: As a *server side thing*, and limited to
    > a *server side stuff* how is Perl better than PHP?


    We drifted off mere server-side processing into a more general "Perl can
    do stuff PHP can't" and "But they're both Turing-complete so you can
    translate from one to the other" thread.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
     
    Toby Inkster, Sep 9, 2004
    #17
  18. leke

    Dylan Parry Guest

    Spake Shailesh Humbad unto thee:

    > Regex are scary because they are so condensed.


    Yes, regular expressions are indeed scary on first glance, but they are
    probably one of the most useful things one can ever learn! I'd suggest
    that anyone who wants to learn to program should at some point take a look
    at Perl Regexp, as this type seems to be used by so many other languages
    in addition to any other format they support.

    Regexp are so useful and can do so many different things, from email
    address syntax checking to query string formatting in SQL. It's all good :)

    --
    Dylan Parry
    http://webpageworkshop.co.uk - FREE Web tutorials and references
     
    Dylan Parry, Sep 9, 2004
    #18
  19. leke

    WebcastMaker Guest

    WebcastMaker, Sep 10, 2004
    #19
  20. Art Sackett wrote:
    > Alan <> wrote:
    >
    >>Look at php - you can do anything perl can do without the hassle

    >
    >
    > Um, no, PHP cannot do anything that perl can do. It might appear that
    > way to someone who doesn't grok perl, and that someone might be well
    > served by PHP, but that's not the same as doing everything perl can do.


    OK, so what can Perl do that PHP can't do? Besides giving me splitting
    headaches, that is.


    Matthias
     
    Matthias Gutfeldt, Sep 10, 2004
    #20
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