external javascript not working

Discussion in 'HTML' started by none, Sep 12, 2008.

  1. none

    none Guest

    Hi all,

    Still pretty new to html. At the risk of showing everyone my private
    information I have my homepage http://users.tpg.com.au/jennlion/.

    You will see that it is pretty much a blank page with only a title. I'm
    including a small amount of javascript so that I can have a reusable
    menu on the left hand side, but for some reason when I include the
    javascript in a separate file and use the src="Navigation.js" attribute,
    the page breaks as you can see. It works on my development machine for
    some reason, regardless of browser.

    I guess there are two questions here, why is it not working, and what is
    the best way to have a reusable menu of links down the left hand side?

    Thanks

    Lionel.
    none, Sep 12, 2008
    #1
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  2. none

    Peter J Ross Guest

    In alt.html on Fri, 12 Sep 2008 20:05:38 +1000, none <""> wrote:

    > Hi all,
    >
    > Still pretty new to html. At the risk of showing everyone my private
    > information I have my homepage http://users.tpg.com.au/jennlion/.
    >
    > You will see that it is pretty much a blank page with only a title. I'm
    > including a small amount of javascript so that I can have a reusable
    > menu on the left hand side, but for some reason when I include the
    > javascript in a separate file and use the src="Navigation.js" attribute,
    > the page breaks as you can see. It works on my development machine for
    > some reason, regardless of browser.
    >
    > I guess there are two questions here, why is it not working,


    As far as I can see, it *is* working. Have you changed something since
    posting?

    > and what is the best way to have a reusable menu of links down the
    > left hand side?


    Don't use javascript. The menu will disappear for users who have
    javascript turned off and navigation around the site will be impossible.

    If you don't want to paste the menu into every page, you could use PHP
    to include it.

    I suggest you fix the various errors in your XHTML first:

    <http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A//users.tpg.com.au/jennlion/Index.html>

    Also, in Index.html, both images have the same "alt" attribute.


    --
    PJR :)
    slrn newsreader (v0.9.9): http://slrn.sourceforge.net/
    extra slrn documentation: http://slrn-doc.sourceforge.net/
    newsgroup name validator: http://pjr.lasnobberia.net/usenet/validator
    Peter J Ross, Sep 12, 2008
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. none

    Robin Rattay Guest

    On 12 Sep., 12:05, none <""lionel\"@(none)"> wrote:
    > You will see that it is pretty much a blank page with only a title. I'm
    > including a small amount of javascript so that I can have a reusable
    > menu on the left hand side,


    You don't need to (read: shouldn't) use JavaScript for that. Reused
    content should be included either with a server-side scripting
    language (such as PHP) or server-side include. If your provider
    doesn't support that, then there are authoring tools that can be used.
    I like includeHTML: http://software.rosenlundnielsen.dk/software/product_includehtml.php

    > but for some reason when I include the
    > javascript in a separate file and use the src="Navigation.js" attribute,
    > the page breaks as you can see. It works on my development machine for
    > some reason, regardless of browser.


    Your XHTML is very broken. I'd suggest you'd read up on the basics of
    XHTML syntax. Here's a nice tutorial: http://www.htmldog.com/

    You can check your syntax with a validator: http://validator.w3.org/

    Some basic points:
    - All content (including your headline) must go into the <body>.
    - Speaking of headline: Instead of wrapping up your headline in
    multiple elements (div, big, span, font), use *one* fitting element -
    in this case <h1>...</h1> for the main (level 1) headline - and style
    it (font size, boldness, centering) in the CSS.
    - In XHTML (not HTML) all empty elements (such as link or br) must
    end with a slash (/) in the tag: <link ... /> and <br/>
    - Some elements *can* be empty (such as script), however IE barfs on
    those, if written as <script ... />. In these cases always use
    <script ...></script>.

    Robin
    Robin Rattay, Sep 12, 2008
    #3
  4. none

    none Guest

    Peter J Ross wrote:
    > In alt.html on Fri, 12 Sep 2008 20:05:38 +1000, none <""> wrote:
    >
    >> Hi all,
    >>
    >> Still pretty new to html. At the risk of showing everyone my private
    >> information I have my homepage http://users.tpg.com.au/jennlion/.
    >>
    >> You will see that it is pretty much a blank page with only a title. I'm
    >> including a small amount of javascript so that I can have a reusable
    >> menu on the left hand side, but for some reason when I include the
    >> javascript in a separate file and use the src="Navigation.js" attribute,
    >> the page breaks as you can see. It works on my development machine for
    >> some reason, regardless of browser.
    >>
    >> I guess there are two questions here, why is it not working,

    >
    > As far as I can see, it *is* working. Have you changed something since
    > posting?


    It works on my linux box using Firefox 2.X. This is where I develop it.
    It doesn't work in IE on XP running in Virtual box, or on a pure XP
    laptop with either firefox 3 or IE 6.


    >> and what is the best way to have a reusable menu of links down the
    >> left hand side?

    >
    > Don't use javascript. The menu will disappear for users who have
    > javascript turned off and navigation around the site will be impossible.
    >
    > If you don't want to paste the menu into every page, you could use PHP
    > to include it.
    >
    > I suggest you fix the various errors in your XHTML first:
    >
    > <http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A//users.tpg.com.au/jennlion/Index.html>
    >
    > Also, in Index.html, both images have the same "alt" attribute.


    Thanks, I'll work on your suggested improvements.

    Lionel.
    none, Sep 12, 2008
    #4
  5. none

    none Guest

    Robin Rattay wrote:
    > On 12 Sep., 12:05, none <""lionel\"@(none)"> wrote:
    >> You will see that it is pretty much a blank page with only a title. I'm
    >> including a small amount of javascript so that I can have a reusable
    >> menu on the left hand side,

    >
    > You don't need to (read: shouldn't) use JavaScript for that. Reused
    > content should be included either with a server-side scripting
    > language (such as PHP) or server-side include. If your provider
    > doesn't support that, then there are authoring tools that can be used.
    > I like includeHTML: http://software.rosenlundnielsen.dk/software/product_includehtml.php
    >
    >> but for some reason when I include the
    >> javascript in a separate file and use the src="Navigation.js" attribute,
    >> the page breaks as you can see. It works on my development machine for
    >> some reason, regardless of browser.

    >
    > Your XHTML is very broken. I'd suggest you'd read up on the basics of
    > XHTML syntax. Here's a nice tutorial: http://www.htmldog.com/
    >
    > You can check your syntax with a validator: http://validator.w3.org/
    >
    > Some basic points:
    > - All content (including your headline) must go into the <body>.
    > - Speaking of headline: Instead of wrapping up your headline in
    > multiple elements (div, big, span, font), use *one* fitting element -
    > in this case <h1>...</h1> for the main (level 1) headline - and style
    > it (font size, boldness, centering) in the CSS.
    > - In XHTML (not HTML) all empty elements (such as link or br) must
    > end with a slash (/) in the tag: <link ... /> and <br/>
    > - Some elements *can* be empty (such as script), however IE barfs on
    > those, if written as <script ... />. In these cases always use
    > <script ...></script>.


    Thanks for the pointers, will follow your suggestions and links and look
    at getting nice HTML before debugging again. Hopefully I will solve the
    problem while fixing the code!

    Thanks

    Lionel.
    none, Sep 12, 2008
    #5
  6. none

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    Robin Rattay <> wrote:

    > On 12 Sep., 12:05, none <""lionel\"@(none)"> wrote:
    > > You will see that it is pretty much a blank page with only a title. I'm
    > > including a small amount of javascript so that I can have a reusable
    > > menu on the left hand side,

    >
    > You don't need to (read: shouldn't) use JavaScript for that. Reused
    > content should be included either with a server-side scripting
    > language (such as PHP) or server-side include.


    There is absolutely no need to do this at this stage. First things
    first. Don't just head off on these geeky paths for the heck of it or
    because people say to do it.

    But do get rid of the javascript for menu and use an unordered list html
    element. Simple and reliable and you just repeat the very little you
    would have on the few pages you have. If the site becomes much bigger,
    it is a different story and you would need to be looking at "including"
    the menu (meaning you write it once and put it in one place and each
    page fetches it automatically).

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Sep 12, 2008
    #6
  7. none

    none Guest

    dorayme wrote:
    > But do get rid of the javascript for menu and use an unordered list html
    > element. Simple and reliable and you just repeat the very little you
    > would have on the few pages you have. If the site becomes much bigger,
    > it is a different story and you would need to be looking at "including"
    > the menu (meaning you write it once and put it in one place and each
    > page fetches it automatically).



    I can't agree with repeating the code. I may only have about a dozen
    files, but every time I add a new page or change a name I don't want to
    be making sure every menu is up-to-date, that is crazy in my opinion and
    has already caused me on this site to get menus out of synch!
    none, Sep 12, 2008
    #7
  8. none

    dorayme Guest

    In article <48ca5746$>, none <""lionel\"@(none)">
    wrote:

    > dorayme wrote:
    > > But do get rid of the javascript for menu and use an unordered list html
    > > element. Simple and reliable and you just repeat the very little you
    > > would have on the few pages you have. If the site becomes much bigger,
    > > it is a different story and you would need to be looking at "including"
    > > the menu (meaning you write it once and put it in one place and each
    > > page fetches it automatically).

    >
    >
    > I can't agree with repeating the code. I may only have about a dozen
    > files, but every time I add a new page or change a name I don't want to
    > be making sure every menu is up-to-date, that is crazy in my opinion and
    > has already caused me on this site to get menus out of synch!


    In that case don't repeat the code. Use an include.

    With so few pages, it seems to me too simple a job. You can insure all
    are the same via your text editor's ability to find and replace, it is
    all pretty automatic and takes the drudgery out of things. True, you do
    then have to reload all 12 or so pages up to the server... Perhaps I
    have become too used to so simple a system that never confuses or
    burdens me until the site becomes rather larger.

    You will like PHP includes, I can see. Very handy. Good luck.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Sep 12, 2008
    #8
  9. none

    none Guest

    dorayme wrote:
    > You will like PHP includes, I can see. Very handy. Good luck.


    Not supported by my server I discovered :(.

    If I ever use copy and paste without changes then it is always time to
    extract common code.

    I'm a Software Engineer, but clearly I have not much idea what I'm doing
    when it comes to html, php and javascript, I've never really done any
    web stuff.
    none, Sep 12, 2008
    #9
  10. none

    none Guest

    mbstevens wrote:
    > On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 22:40:19 +1000, none wrote:
    >
    >> dorayme wrote:
    >>> You will like PHP includes, I can see. Very handy. Good luck.

    >> Not supported by my server I discovered :(.

    >
    >
    > Then use a preprocessor.
    > http://htmlhelp.com/links/preprocessors.html
    >


    In that case I can probably just us cpp :).
    none, Sep 12, 2008
    #10
  11. none

    Roy A. Guest

    On 12 Sep, 12:55, none <""lionel\"@(none)"> wrote:
    > Peter J Ross wrote:
    > > In alt.html on Fri, 12 Sep 2008 20:05:38 +1000, none <""> wrote:

    >
    > >> Hi all,

    >
    > >> Still pretty new to html. At the risk of showing everyone my private
    > >> information I have my homepagehttp://users.tpg.com.au/jennlion/.

    >
    > >> You will see that it is pretty much a blank page with only a title. I'm
    > >> including a small amount of javascript so that I can have a reusable
    > >> menu on the left hand side, but for some reason when I include the
    > >> javascript in a separate file and use the src="Navigation.js" attribute,
    > >> the page breaks as you can see. It works on my development machine for
    > >> some reason, regardless of browser.

    >
    > >> I guess there are two questions here, why is it not working,

    >
    > > As far as I can see, it *is* working. Have you changed something since
    > > posting?

    >
    > It works on my linux box using Firefox 2.X. This is where I develop it.
    > It doesn't work in IE on XP running in Virtual box, or on a pure XP
    > laptop with either firefox 3 or IE 6.


    HTML Tag soup parsers don't understand neither the sgml nor the xml
    shorthand '/'.

    Just change:

    <script type="text/javascript" src="Navigation.js"/>

    to:

    <script type="text/javascript" src="Navigation.js"></script>
    Roy A., Sep 12, 2008
    #11
  12. none

    dorayme Guest

    In article <48ca6333$>, none <""lionel\"@(none)">
    wrote:

    > dorayme wrote:
    > > You will like PHP includes, I can see. Very handy. Good luck.

    >
    > Not supported by my server I discovered :(.
    >
    > If I ever use copy and paste without changes then it is always time to
    > extract common code.
    >
    > I'm a Software Engineer, but clearly I have not much idea what I'm doing
    > when it comes to html, php and javascript, I've never really done any
    > web stuff.


    Which is really why I said to not bother with includes yet. You need to
    run before you walk. You already know how to copy and paste, you do not
    need to learn this. But you don't know the basics of HTML and CSS,
    otherwise you would have employed an HTML unordered list for your
    navigation. Better to spend time on learning these basics than to be
    overly concerned about having to cut and paste a bit and to be chasing
    off after more sophisticated technologies. Cart before the horse and all
    that...

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Sep 12, 2008
    #12
  13. none

    none Guest

    Roy A. wrote:
    >
    > HTML Tag soup parsers don't understand neither the sgml nor the xml
    > shorthand '/'.
    >
    > Just change:
    >
    > <script type="text/javascript" src="Navigation.js"/>
    >
    > to:
    >
    > <script type="text/javascript" src="Navigation.js"></script>


    Right you are. Thanks :).
    none, Sep 12, 2008
    #13
  14. none

    none Guest

    mbstevens wrote:
    > On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 23:28:43 +1000, none wrote:
    >
    >> mbstevens wrote:
    >>> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 22:40:19 +1000, none wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> dorayme wrote:
    >>>>> You will like PHP includes, I can see. Very handy. Good luck.
    >>>> Not supported by my server I discovered :(.
    >>>
    >>> Then use a preprocessor.
    >>> http://htmlhelp.com/links/preprocessors.html
    >>>
    >>>

    >> In that case I can probably just us cpp :).

    >
    > Make mine make.
    > :)


    You can do it with make?
    none, Sep 12, 2008
    #14
  15. none

    none Guest

    mbstevens wrote:
    > Just kidding around, but, yeah, if you call
    > cat with it. An HTML preprocessor might make
    > more sense.


    Not necessarily. I have managed to fully automated the process with a 10
    line shell script :). No necessary download and learning of new tools!
    none, Sep 13, 2008
    #15
  16. none <""lionel\"@(none)"> writes:

    > mbstevens wrote:
    >>
    >> Make mine make.
    >> :)

    >
    > You can do it with make?


    Sure - there's no reason why make would only be usable to compile
    software. Here's the makefile I use to create the CamelBones site from
    XML documents, using xsltproc, and 'install' and 'sync' targets to
    copy the site to a staging and the live server, respectively.

    It works a treat - all I do to add a page is create its xml, add it to
    the navigation.xml where I want its menu item to be, and 'make
    install'.

    sherm--

    # make file for CBDocs

    # Useful definitions
    XSLTPROC = /usr/bin/xsltproc
    FOP = /Users/sherm/bin/fop.sh
    TIDY = /usr/bin/tidy
    SITES = /Users/sherm/Sites
    INSTALL = /usr/bin/install
    RSYNC = /usr/bin/rsync

    XSL_HTML_STYLESHEET = html.xsl
    NAV_XML = navigation.xml
    XSL_FO_STYLESHEET = fo.xsl

    # Get the list of files
    HTML = $(shell $(XSLTPROC) htmldocs.xsl navigation.xml)
    HTML_DIRS = $(shell $(XSLTPROC) htmldirs.xsl navigation.xml)

    # Targets:
    all: html

    html: $(HTML_DIRS) $(HTML)

    $(HTML_DIRS):
    mkdir -p $(HTML_DIRS)

    pdf: $(PDF) $(IMAGES) $(XSL_FO_STYLESHEET)

    %.html : %.xml $(XSL_HTML_STYLESHEET) $(NAV_XML)
    $(XSLTPROC) --stringparam docname $< -o $@ $(XSL_HTML_STYLESHEET) $<
    $(TIDY) -modify -indent -quiet --doctype strict $@

    %.fo : %.xml
    $(XSLTPROC) -o $@ $(XSL_FO_STYLESHEET) $<

    %.pdf : %.fo
    $(FOP) $< $@

    install: install_html

    install_html: html
    $(RSYNC) --recursive \
    --exclude=*.xml --exclude=*.xsl --exclude=GNUmakefile* \
    --exclude=CVS --exclude=.DS_Store \
    . $(SITES)

    sync: install_html
    $(RSYNC) --recursive --exclude=.DS_Store \
    $(SITES)/* $(SITES)/.htaccess \
    ":/home/groups/c/ca/camelbones/htdocs/"

    clean:
    rm -f $(HTML) $(PDF)


    --
    My blog: http://shermspace.blogspot.com
    Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
    Sherm Pendley, Sep 13, 2008
    #16
  17. none

    Lionel Guest

    dorayme wrote:
    > Which is really why I said to not bother with includes yet. You need to
    > run before you walk. You already know how to copy and paste, you do not
    > need to learn this. But you don't know the basics of HTML and CSS,
    > otherwise you would have employed an HTML unordered list for your
    > navigation.


    I still stand by not doing this. If I get it wrong once then I get it
    wrong a dozen times, it's just bad practice. It would be great if html
    had some sort of include tag but unless someone comes and points out
    that it does, then AFAIK it doesn't.

    FYI in my first draft of that web page I did use a <ul>...</ul> and I
    did have it repeated 12 times. My lists consistently got out of synch
    while I tried to copy and paste making sure I didn't leave a tag hanging
    accidentally etc. It was horrible!
    Lionel, Sep 13, 2008
    #17
  18. none

    dorayme Guest

    In article <48cb1b43$>, Lionel <>
    wrote:

    > dorayme wrote:
    > > Which is really why I said to not bother with includes yet. You need to
    > > run before you walk. You already know how to copy and paste, you do not
    > > need to learn this. But you don't know the basics of HTML and CSS,
    > > otherwise you would have employed an HTML unordered list for your
    > > navigation.

    >
    > I still stand by not doing this. If I get it wrong once then I get it
    > wrong a dozen times, it's just bad practice. It would be great if html
    > had some sort of include tag but unless someone comes and points out
    > that it does, then AFAIK it doesn't.
    >
    > FYI in my first draft of that web page I did use a <ul>...</ul> and I
    > did have it repeated 12 times. My lists consistently got out of synch
    > while I tried to copy and paste making sure I didn't leave a tag hanging
    > accidentally etc. It was horrible!


    If you are having such difficulty with this, how can you be so confident
    that you won't have as many difficulties with mastering includes, making
    sure the HTML doc has a correct file path to get to the include on the
    server, putting the includes on the server, putting in the references to
    the includes into each page. This is also a job that requires
    repeatition. If you can't cut and paste accurately, then you can run
    into trouble here too. There are fiddly little greater than signs,
    question marks and so on in include references. All of them have to be
    repeated page after page.

    In the end, it is actually important that you master not getting the
    basics wrong. Cut and paste is basics. Making web sites is fiddly work
    and requires a lot of attention to detail. When you get the basics right
    (not wrong) and get fed up, then is the time to get more sophisticated.

    And no, I can't agree with your maths. (My, how disagreeable I am!).
    You personally don't have to repeat anything 12 times if you use Search
    and Replace in your text editor, technology which is dead easy to
    master. You search for the old menu text and you replace it with new
    over a number of pages in a folder. Get it right once and you are good
    to go for changes a million times.

    Not trying to be mean to you. It is just that it seems so obvious that
    you must stop and get rock bottom basics right before looking for fancy.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Sep 13, 2008
    #18
  19. none

    none Guest

    dorayme wrote:
    > In article <48cb1b43$>, Lionel <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> dorayme wrote:
    >>> Which is really why I said to not bother with includes yet. You need to
    >>> run before you walk. You already know how to copy and paste, you do not
    >>> need to learn this. But you don't know the basics of HTML and CSS,
    >>> otherwise you would have employed an HTML unordered list for your
    >>> navigation.

    >> I still stand by not doing this. If I get it wrong once then I get it
    >> wrong a dozen times, it's just bad practice. It would be great if html
    >> had some sort of include tag but unless someone comes and points out
    >> that it does, then AFAIK it doesn't.
    >>
    >> FYI in my first draft of that web page I did use a <ul>...</ul> and I
    >> did have it repeated 12 times. My lists consistently got out of synch
    >> while I tried to copy and paste making sure I didn't leave a tag hanging
    >> accidentally etc. It was horrible!

    >
    > If you are having such difficulty with this, how can you be so confident
    > that you won't have as many difficulties with mastering includes, making
    > sure the HTML doc has a correct file path to get to the include on the
    > server, putting the includes on the server, putting in the references to
    > the includes into each page. This is also a job that requires
    > repeatition. If you can't cut and paste accurately, then you can run
    > into trouble here too. There are fiddly little greater than signs,
    > question marks and so on in include references. All of them have to be
    > repeated page after page.
    >
    > In the end, it is actually important that you master not getting the
    > basics wrong. Cut and paste is basics. Making web sites is fiddly work
    > and requires a lot of attention to detail. When you get the basics right
    > (not wrong) and get fed up, then is the time to get more sophisticated.
    >
    > And no, I can't agree with your maths. (My, how disagreeable I am!).
    > You personally don't have to repeat anything 12 times if you use Search
    > and Replace in your text editor, technology which is dead easy to
    > master. You search for the old menu text and you replace it with new
    > over a number of pages in a folder. Get it right once and you are good
    > to go for changes a million times.
    >
    > Not trying to be mean to you. It is just that it seems so obvious that
    > you must stop and get rock bottom basics right before looking for fancy.


    Yeah, many a text editor can do search and replace, but it is unlikely
    to do blocks all that well and it is unlikely to open the 12 files all
    by itself, what you said doesn't make much sense. Of course I could use
    sed or something like that.

    I'm not trying to be fancy, I'm trying to be practical and exercise code
    reuse. My page is now working with JS, I don't care if any of my target
    audience doesn't have JS enabled as this is very unlikely anyway.

    Sure I had some poor design stuff in that page (and the others which I'm
    yet to fix) but that will improve with time.

    I don't agree with your approach so I might leave it at that. Everyone
    has a different learning style.

    I thank everyone including yourself for the valuable input though :).

    Lionel.
    none, Sep 13, 2008
    #19
  20. none

    dorayme Guest

    In article <48cb4893$>, none <""lionel\"@(none)">
    wrote:

    > Yeah, many a text editor can do search and replace, but it is unlikely
    > to do blocks all that well and it is unlikely to open the 12 files all
    > by itself, what you said doesn't make much sense. Of course I could use
    > sed or something like that.
    >


    On what do you base your opinion that many a text editor is unlikely
    to do blocks all that well? I know for a fact that my text editor is
    extremely reliable in this regard. There would be many others as good.
    Perhaps it is something you are not noticing that is giving you an
    impression of unreliability?

    Apart from this unreliability you are claiming, is there anything else
    that does not make sense? Remember, we are talking 12 pages and a very
    small menu indeed. A very nice menu, mind you, but very modest in
    complexity.

    > I'm not trying to be fancy, I'm trying to be practical and exercise code
    > reuse. My page is now working with JS, I don't care if any of my target
    > audience doesn't have JS enabled as this is very unlikely anyway.


    Well, I won't get into this javascript issue, others have spoken well on
    this. Please accept that I came in only because I saw you possibly
    chasing after "includes" - which are very good things - while seeming to
    be having so much trouble with simple HTML and copy and paste and this
    sounded like some cart was getting in front of some horse given you had
    12 pages and a very simple list.

    > I don't agree with your approach so I might leave it at that. Everyone
    > has a different learning style.
    >


    I am biased, I see my view as urging you to walk to the shops that are
    about 100 metres away rather than start up the car and risk running out
    of petrol, running into the neighbours cat, contributing to global
    warming, bringing peak-oil closer ... <g>

    But good luck anyway.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Sep 13, 2008
    #20
    1. Advertising

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