Font-size switching

Discussion in 'HTML' started by dorayme, Mar 11, 2008.

  1. dorayme

    dorayme Guest

    At <http://preview.tinyurl.com/2f3z98> there is:

    "This tutorial will show you how to add such a text size switcher
    to your Web pages using PHP and CSS, thereby immediately making
    your Web site more accessible and scoring you useful brownie
    points from everyone over the age of 50. Keep reading, and find
    out how!"

    And there was I looking at this for the more natural purpose of
    giving folk a way to make text smaller from default base of 100%!
    In other words hoping to score brownie points with the under 50s.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Mar 11, 2008
    #1
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  2. dorayme

    Jim Moe Guest

    On 03/11/08 03:50 pm, dorayme wrote:
    >
    > "This tutorial will show you how to add such a text size switcher
    > to your Web pages using PHP and CSS, thereby immediately making
    > your Web site more accessible and scoring you useful brownie
    > points from everyone over the age of 50. Keep reading, and find
    > out how!"
    >

    Rather insulting to people over 50. It assumes they all have vision
    problems while no one under 50 does.
    Then there is the old issue of deezyners selecting a font size for
    everyone then providing a way for everyone to adjust it to their own
    preference. A lot of hubris there when all they have to do leave the size
    at 100%.

    --
    jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
    (Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)
     
    Jim Moe, Mar 12, 2008
    #2
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  3. dorayme

    Bergamot Guest

    Jim Moe wrote:
    >
    > Rather insulting to people over 50. It assumes they all have vision
    > problems while no one under 50 does.


    I've had poor vision since I was 8 years old. Age has nothing to do with it.

    --
    Berg
     
    Bergamot, Mar 12, 2008
    #3
  4. dorayme

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Jim Moe <> wrote:

    > On 03/11/08 03:50 pm, dorayme wrote:
    > >
    > > "This tutorial will show you how to add such a text size switcher
    > > to your Web pages using PHP and CSS, thereby immediately making
    > > your Web site more accessible and scoring you useful brownie
    > > points from everyone over the age of 50. Keep reading, and find
    > > out how!"
    > >

    > Rather insulting to people over 50. It assumes they all have vision
    > problems while no one under 50 does.
    > Then there is the old issue of deezyners selecting a font size for
    > everyone then providing a way for everyone to adjust it to their own
    > preference. A lot of hubris there when all they have to do leave the size
    > at 100%.


    A couple of things Jim, because of the way you have snipped my
    post, let me make it clear that I did *not* say what is inside
    the quote marks. Not something that many people would pick up
    from the way you snipped the very short post.

    I added "And there was I looking at this for the more natural
    purpose of giving folk a way to make text smaller from default
    base of 100%! In other words hoping to score brownie points with
    the under 50s."

    <g>

    Aside from such personal concerns, yes, it is a bit rude I guess
    of that website to have phrased it thus.

    Your last remark seems to me to miss an important point and that
    is that you can set 100% as default but still provide a facility
    for people who are not so familiar with their web browsers but
    would like bigger or smaller. This is different to dictating to
    people some super small size and giving them an option for
    bigger. It is a totally different tactic. It was in fact, part of
    the post which you snipped.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Mar 12, 2008
    #4
  5. dorayme

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Bergamot <> wrote:

    > I've had poor vision since I was 8 years old. Age has nothing to do with it.


    Almost totally untrue. Age has a lot to do with it. Social and
    statistical facts are not some big secret.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Mar 12, 2008
    #5
  6. dorayme wrote:

    > In article <>,
    > Bergamot <> wrote:
    >
    > > I've had poor vision since I was 8 years old. Age has nothing to do
    > > with it.

    >
    > Almost totally untrue. Age has a lot to do with it. Social and
    > statistical facts are not some big secret.


    Depends how you look at it. I've been using glasses since I was 7,
    gradually degrading to about -7.5 on one eye and -6.5 on the other
    nowadays (I'm 28). My sister had to start using reading glasses (for
    astigmatism) about 4 or 5 years ago, and now she's 25. My mother
    started with reading glasses at a much later age, a few years earlier
    than when my sister did (although past her early 40's). My stepdad has
    also gotten corrective glasses (also for astigmatism, but to a lesser
    extent) at about the same time. Finally, my dad has been using glasses
    for as long as I can remember (by looking at photo albums from my
    childhood, I'd say at least since he was about 20).

    Just looking at my own family, I don't think age has as much to do with
    poor vision as statistics might think (I have the feeling there are a
    lot of people out there having poor vision without admitting it, mainly
    because of pride and/or vanity; too many times, I've heard people say
    that "only old people wear glasses").

    --
    Kim André Akerø
    -
    (remove NOSPAM to contact me directly)
     
    Kim André Akerø, Mar 12, 2008
    #6
  7. dorayme

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Kim André Akerø <> wrote:

    > dorayme wrote:
    >
    > > In article <>,
    > > Bergamot <> wrote:
    > >
    > > > I've had poor vision since I was 8 years old. Age has nothing to do
    > > > with it.

    > >
    > > Almost totally untrue. Age has a lot to do with it. Social and
    > > statistical facts are not some big secret.

    >
    > Depends how you look at it.


    It depends on *what* you look at. We get poorer in vision as we
    get older. A statistical statement has different truth conditions
    to other statements.
    ....

    > Just looking at my own family, I don't think age has as much to do with
    > poor vision as statistics might think (I have the feeling there are a
    > lot of people out there having poor vision without admitting it, mainly
    > because of pride and/or vanity; too many times, I've heard people say
    > that "only old people wear glasses").


    It is hard to believe my fingers are typing this: many people
    under 50 have poor vision, many people over 50 have great vision.

    And you can make as many - well, up to a point - non-statistical
    statements you like and the statistical one still remains like a
    fortress, unaffected.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Mar 13, 2008
    #7
  8. Kim André Akerø wrote:

    > Just looking at my own family, I don't think age has as much to do with
    > poor vision as statistics might think (I have the feeling there are a
    > lot of people out there having poor vision without admitting it, mainly
    > because of pride and/or vanity; too many times, I've heard people say
    > that "only old people wear glasses").


    Of course, there are plenty of young people who wear glasses. I first got
    glasses when I was about 15. I didn't start wearing them frequently until
    I was about 23, and still don't wear them consistently, as my vision is
    reasonable without them.

    But the important factor here is that as you age, your vision tends will
    do one of two things: it will stay the same, or get worse. It won't
    improve. Which is why older people are more likely to need glasses than
    younger people.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    [Geek of HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python/Apache/Linux]
    [OS: Linux 2.6.17.14-mm-desktop-9mdvsmp, up 44 days, 21:33.]
    [Now Playing: Coldplay - Sparks]

    The Semantic Web
    http://tobyinkster.co.uk/blog/2008/03/09/sw/
     
    Toby A Inkster, Mar 14, 2008
    #8
  9. On 2008-03-13 01:25:08 +0100, dorayme <> said:

    > In article <>,
    > Kim André Akerø <> wrote:
    >
    >> dorayme wrote:
    >>
    >>> In article <>,
    >>> Bergamot <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I've had poor vision since I was 8 years old. Age has nothing to do
    >>>> with it.
    >>>
    >>> Almost totally untrue. Age has a lot to do with it. Social and
    >>> statistical facts are not some big secret.

    >>
    >> Depends how you look at it.

    >
    > It depends on *what* you look at. We get poorer in vision as we
    > get older.


    It's not as simple as that. For some purposes one's vision may improve.
    True, I can't read easily now without glasses, but I don't need them
    for driving now, whereas I did once. Myopia when young almost cancels
    out with presbyopia when old, at least for some people.

    None of this affects the HTML point, of course. I think we can all
    agree that 100% is best.


    --
    athel
     
    Athel Cornish-Bowden, Mar 14, 2008
    #9
  10. dorayme

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Athel Cornish-Bowden <> wrote:

    > On 2008-03-13 01:25:08 +0100, dorayme <> said:
    >
    > > In article <>,
    > > Kim André Akerø <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> dorayme wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> In article <>,
    > >>> Bergamot <> wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>>> I've had poor vision since I was 8 years old. Age has nothing to do
    > >>>> with it.
    > >>>
    > >>> Almost totally untrue. Age has a lot to do with it. Social and
    > >>> statistical facts are not some big secret.
    > >>
    > >> Depends how you look at it.

    > >
    > > It depends on *what* you look at. We get poorer in vision as we
    > > get older.

    >
    > It's not as simple as that.


    It is as simple as that. I am afraid you are not cottoning on to
    my remarks about statistical statements. Perhaps there was
    something about those remarks by me in a post or two, a post or
    two back, that was unclear?

    It is true that you would not be the first to have trouble with
    the logic of statistical remarks. They are a most unintuitive
    form for even otherwise competent humans, (witness Bergamots's
    mistake on this, earlier in the thread.)

    > For some purposes one's vision may improve.
    > True, I can't read easily now without glasses, but I don't need them
    > for driving now, whereas I did once. Myopia when young almost cancels
    > out with presbyopia when old, at least for some people.
    >


    This is a bit like saying it is not simply true that people have
    almost no chance of winning the lottery - because you won it.

    Perhaps the trouble is that a lot of remarks of a statistical
    nature are not flagged as such with obvious words like "Most" or
    "X%". But it is extremely debilitating for a writer to be
    required to flag his or her remarks with such obvious and literal
    additions. Many writers, especially in scientific fields or
    social surveys and even histories must simply be understood to be
    talking broadly, statistically.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Mar 14, 2008
    #10
  11. dorayme

    Jim Moe Guest

    On 03/12/08 01:13 pm, dorayme wrote:
    >> >
    >> > "This tutorial will show you how to add such a text size switcher
    >> > to your Web pages using PHP and CSS, thereby immediately making
    >> > your Web site more accessible and scoring you useful brownie
    >> > points from everyone over the age of 50. Keep reading, and find
    >> > out how!"
    >> >

    >> Rather insulting to people over 50. It assumes they all have vision
    >> problems while no one under 50 does.

    >
    > A couple of things Jim, because of the way you have snipped my
    > post, let me make it clear that I did *not* say what is inside
    > the quote marks. Not something that many people would pick up
    > from the way you snipped the very short post.
    >

    I know. I was responding the sentiment in the quoted quoted text, not to
    anything that you said.
    >
    > Your last remark seems to me to miss an important point and that
    > is that you can set 100% as default but still provide a facility
    > for people who are not so familiar with their web browsers but
    > would like bigger or smaller. This is different to dictating to
    > people some super small size and giving them an option for
    > bigger. It is a totally different tactic. It was in fact, part of
    > the post which you snipped.
    >

    It took a long time for me (now, now! be nice!) to figure out why some
    sites had that little row of A's (usually 3 or 4), all the same size,
    somewhere on the page. Since I have JS normally disabled and a minimum
    font size set, clicking on those had no results. When I finally twigged to
    their purpose, I was then further disappointed that even the largest text
    size option was never large enough, i.e., it never made it to 100%.
    You are proposing doing the opposite. Are you be sure you can offer a
    set of sizes that will be satisfying to the eagle-eyed?

    --
    jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
    (Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)
     
    Jim Moe, Mar 15, 2008
    #11
  12. dorayme

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Jim Moe <> wrote:

    > On 03/12/08 01:13 pm, dorayme wrote:
    > >> >


    > > ... you can set 100% as default but still provide a facility
    > > for people who are not so familiar with their web browsers but
    > > would like bigger or smaller. This is different to dictating to
    > > people some super small size and giving them an option for
    > > bigger. It is a totally different tactic. It was in fact, part of
    > > the post which you snipped.
    > >

    > It took a long time for me (now, now! be nice!)


    On this score I am not one to be superior in any way. I am taking
    too long to develop my alternative theory of the concept of the
    canvas... <g>


    > to figure out why some
    > sites had that little row of A's (usually 3 or 4), all the same size,
    > somewhere on the page.


    Now that is a nice reminder, good point, that at least the A's
    should reflect the size of what to expect, to give an idea to the
    user.

    > Since I have JS normally disabled and a minimum
    > font size set, clicking on those had no results.


    Those techniques were obviously not server side then.

    > When I finally twigged to
    > their purpose, I was then further disappointed that even the largest text
    > size option was never large enough, i.e., it never made it to 100%.


    You see, I think this is what is going on! You have all been
    through bad experiences on this score and it has made you unduly
    wary.

    > You are proposing doing the opposite. Are you be sure you can offer a
    > set of sizes that will be satisfying to the eagle-eyed?


    To not dare because one can not be sure is not exactly to be
    generally recommended for beings with pretensions of pride and
    independence.

    Actually I don't care too much about the eagle eyed (I might even
    tease them and make their button go to 2pt!). But 120% (up from
    100) can do a power of good for a whole bunch of folk, mainly
    elderly.

    I say not to be too frightened to go that little extra distance
    to help the deserving. Not to be too ideological. (I am so sick
    of hearing - my own voice included - saying to leave this and
    that to the user as some sort of absolute law which makes any
    exception seem like a nostrum). The big thing is to allow the
    website to stand on its own if none of these extras work.

    Now and then, for example, I say things about how to download
    stuff, I don't always *just* leave it to visitors. Because I have
    seen so many folk so puzzled about computer operations. Those who
    know do not need it. It won't kill anyone.

    But I do agree that an author's tendency should be to the lean,
    there are too many dangers in having enthusiastic good intentions.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Mar 15, 2008
    #12
  13. On Mar 12, 2:48 pm, Bergamot <> wrote:
    > I've had poor vision since I was 8 years old. Age has nothing to do with it.


    While being young does not mean good eyesight, I do agree with dorayme
    about the 50 year eyesight creep.
     
    Travis Newbury, Mar 16, 2008
    #13
  14. Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Travis Newbury
    <> writing in
    news::

    > On Mar 12, 2:48 pm, Bergamot <> wrote:
    >> I've had poor vision since I was 8 years old. Age has nothing to do
    >> with it.

    >
    > While being young does not mean good eyesight, I do agree with dorayme
    > about the 50 year eyesight creep.


    Dateline - Glendale CA - Ralphs Grocery Store 3/16/2008

    When checking out, the checker said suddenly, "Can I see your ID,
    please?". He had my six pack of George Killian Irish Red in his hand.

    I thought he was talking to someone else, until he said it again, and I
    said, "Me? You want ID from me?"

    He said "Yes, I have to ask for ID for anyone who looks under 30."

    Pointing at my gray hair, I asked again, "Me?"

    With a very serious look on his face, he said, "Yes."

    I took my ID out, and handed it to him saying, "I'm 51."

    He said, "Well, you don't look it!"

    I said, "Come here, I want to kiss you!" and I gave him a nice kiss on
    the cheek. The whole supermarket broke into laughter.

    My face may not look 51, but my eyes certainly know their age.

    --
    Adrienne Boswell at Home
    Arbpen Web Site Design Services
    http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
    Please respond to the group so others can share
     
    Adrienne Boswell, Mar 17, 2008
    #14
  15. dorayme

    Ed Mullen Guest

    Adrienne Boswell wrote:
    > Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Travis Newbury
    > <> writing in
    > news::
    >
    >> On Mar 12, 2:48 pm, Bergamot <> wrote:
    >>> I've had poor vision since I was 8 years old. Age has nothing to do
    >>> with it.

    >> While being young does not mean good eyesight, I do agree with dorayme
    >> about the 50 year eyesight creep.

    >
    > Dateline - Glendale CA - Ralphs Grocery Store 3/16/2008
    >
    > When checking out, the checker said suddenly, "Can I see your ID,
    > please?". He had my six pack of George Killian Irish Red in his hand.
    >
    > I thought he was talking to someone else, until he said it again, and I
    > said, "Me? You want ID from me?"
    >
    > He said "Yes, I have to ask for ID for anyone who looks under 30."
    >
    > Pointing at my gray hair, I asked again, "Me?"
    >
    > With a very serious look on his face, he said, "Yes."
    >
    > I took my ID out, and handed it to him saying, "I'm 51."
    >
    > He said, "Well, you don't look it!"
    >
    > I said, "Come here, I want to kiss you!" and I gave him a nice kiss on
    > the cheek. The whole supermarket broke into laughter.
    >
    > My face may not look 51, but my eyes certainly know their age.
    >


    My city (Alpharetta, GA) inexplicably enacted an ordinance some years
    ago that requires any purveyor of alcoholic beverages (stores,
    restaurants, etc.) to check a photo ID when selling/serving an alcoholic
    beverage. This trumps any state or federal law. After this ordinance
    passed I was in my local grocery store with a typical collection of
    "stuff" at the checkout, including some beer and wine. The clerk, upon
    scanning the beverages, said: "May I see your ID, please?"

    I said: "Hey, if any 20-year old (the legal age limit) comes in here
    looking like me he DESERVES a freaking drink!!!"

    Gray hair? Hell, I pointed to my lack of hair and gray beard and said:
    "Are you freaking kidding me?" Unfortunately, the locals are serious
    about enforcement and the stores are disinclined to pay the fines. On
    the plus side, we're still allowed to shoot people who threaten us in
    Georgia. Sigh. Oh well. Get a little, give a little.

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    A penny saved is ridiculous.
     
    Ed Mullen, Mar 17, 2008
    #15
  16. dorayme

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Ed Mullen <> wrote:

    > Adrienne Boswell wrote:


    > > I said, "Come here, I want to kiss you!" and I gave him a nice kiss on
    > > the cheek. The whole supermarket broke into laughter.
    > >
    > > My face may not look 51, but my eyes certainly know their age.
    > >

    >

    ....

    > Gray hair? Hell, I pointed to my lack of hair and gray beard and said:
    > "Are you freaking kidding me?" ...


    O come on Ed, tell us the best bit, what happened when you went
    to kiss him?

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Mar 17, 2008
    #16
  17. dorayme

    Ed Mullen Guest

    dorayme wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > Ed Mullen <> wrote:
    >
    >> Adrienne Boswell wrote:

    >
    >>> I said, "Come here, I want to kiss you!" and I gave him a nice kiss on
    >>> the cheek. The whole supermarket broke into laughter.
    >>>
    >>> My face may not look 51, but my eyes certainly know their age.
    >>>

    > ...
    >
    >> Gray hair? Hell, I pointed to my lack of hair and gray beard and said:
    >> "Are you freaking kidding me?" ...

    >
    > O come on Ed, tell us the best bit, what happened when you went
    > to kiss him?
    >


    I would have kissed HER but, frankly, she wasn't that cute.

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name.
     
    Ed Mullen, Mar 17, 2008
    #17
  18. > My city (Alpharetta, GA)...

    How cool, I am in Lawrenceville...

    > inexplicably enacted an ordinance some years
    > ago that requires any purveyor of alcoholic beverages (stores,
    > restaurants, etc.) to check a photo ID when selling/serving an alcoholic
    > beverage. This trumps any state or federal law...


    Ditto for Lawrenceville...

    > After this ordinance
    > passed I was in my local grocery store with a typical collection of
    > "stuff" at the checkout, including some beer and wine. The clerk, upon
    > scanning the beverages, said: "May I see your ID, please?"
    >
    > I said: "Hey, if any 20-year old (the legal age limit) comes in here
    > looking like me he DESERVES a freaking drink!!!"


    Got to love it. It happens every time in L-ville

    > Gray hair?


    Nope, 51 and not a gray hair to be found. At Six flags weight/age
    booth, I usually get "37 or 38" Good genes I guess...

    > Hell, I pointed to my lack of hair and gray beard and said:
    > "Are you freaking kidding me?" Unfortunately, the locals are serious
    > about enforcement and the stores are disinclined to pay the fines.


    Yes they are. There is a package store I go to in Duluth all the
    time, they know me by name (which is kind of sad I guess...) But I
    still get asked to see the ID.

    >On
    > the plus side, we're still allowed to shoot people who threaten us in
    > Georgia. Sigh. Oh well. Get a little, give a little.


    Got to love the south...
     
    Travis Newbury, Mar 17, 2008
    #18
  19. dorayme

    Ed Mullen Guest

    Travis Newbury wrote:
    >> My city (Alpharetta, GA)...

    >
    > How cool, I am in Lawrenceville...


    Neat! Very small world.

    >> On
    >> the plus side, we're still allowed to shoot people who threaten us in
    >> Georgia. Sigh. Oh well. Get a little, give a little.

    >
    > Got to love the south...
    >


    <g>

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    Why do they report power outages on TV?
     
    Ed Mullen, Mar 17, 2008
    #19
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