Frameset and frames ... I don't understand

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Al Jones, Jan 2, 2005.

  1. Al Jones

    Al Jones Guest

    This is 'default.html' at the moment it's a shell that I'm trying to start
    to fill in. This validates ... for what that's worth at the moment.

    <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
    <html lang="en">
    <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
    charset=iso-8859-1">
    <title>van Amber Civil War Diaries &&nbsp;Letters</title>
    <link href="CssFiles/valetters.css" rel="stylesheet"
    type="text/css" >
    </head>

    <frameset rows="3">
    <frame src="Banner.html"
    name="banner"
    id="banner"
    scrolling="Auto"
    class="banner">
    <frameset cols="2">
    <frame>

    <frame>

    </frameset>
    <frame>

    </frameset>
    </html>

    This is banner.html and craps all over itself when I try to validate it -
    I'm obviously using the validator as a teching tool.

    <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
    <html lang="en">
    <head>
    <title>Banner</title>
    <link href="CssFiles/valetters.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" >
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
    charset=iso-8859-1">
    <meta name="description" content="">
    <meta name="keywords" content="">
    <meta name="author" content="">
    </head>
    <body>
    <div class="wrapper">
    <div class="left-element">
    <img src="Images/cpvt2.jpg" align="left">
    </div>
    <div>
    <span class="banner" id="banner" style="font-size: '20pt'" >
    <p>William Wallace van Amber<br>Civil War Diaries &
    Letters</p></span>
    </div>
    <div class="right-element">
    <img src="Images/uspvt2.jpg" width="70" height="155"
    align="right">
    </div>
    </div>
    </body>
    </html>

    First the validator comlains that "'document type does not allow element
    "BODY" here' but it was my understanding that what went in each of the
    frames would be valid html if it were pulled up by itself. Obviously this
    isn't, but as I said, I don't understand .

    Second question - if I can't use a <p> where I have it, then how *do* I
    display a text heading between my two images??
    --
    Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
     
    Al Jones, Jan 2, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Al Jones

    rf Guest

    "Al Jones" <> wrote

    > This is banner.html and craps all over itself when I try to validate it -
    > I'm obviously using the validator as a teching tool.
    >
    > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
    > "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">


    You should not be using the frameset DTD in a normal page, you should be
    using transitional or, preferably, strict.

    You also should not be using frames at all.

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
     
    rf, Jan 2, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Al Jones

    get_it Guest

    Free frameset templateS

    View:
    http://wholives.com/freetemplates/frameset1/frameset1.htm

    DOWNLOAD ZIP AT:
    http://wholives.com/freetemplates/frameset1/frameset1.zip

    MORE: http://wholives.com/tools/freestuff.htm



    "Al Jones" <> wrote in message
    news:1104636341.92899765ed70003799ea59382722833b@teranews...
    > This is 'default.html' at the moment it's a shell that I'm trying to start
    > to fill in. This validates ... for what that's worth at the moment.
    >
    > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
    > "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
    > <html lang="en">
    > <head>
    > <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
    > charset=iso-8859-1">
    > <title>van Amber Civil War Diaries &&nbsp;Letters</title>
    > <link href="CssFiles/valetters.css" rel="stylesheet"
    > type="text/css" >
    > </head>
    >
    > <frameset rows="3">
    > <frame src="Banner.html"
    > name="banner"
    > id="banner"
    > scrolling="Auto"
    > class="banner">
    > <frameset cols="2">
    > <frame>
    >
    > <frame>
    >
    > </frameset>
    > <frame>
    >
    > </frameset>
    > </html>
    >
    > This is banner.html and craps all over itself when I try to validate it -
    > I'm obviously using the validator as a teching tool.
    >
    > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
    > "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
    > <html lang="en">
    > <head>
    > <title>Banner</title>
    > <link href="CssFiles/valetters.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"
    >
    > <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
    > charset=iso-8859-1">
    > <meta name="description" content="">
    > <meta name="keywords" content="">
    > <meta name="author" content="">
    > </head>
    > <body>
    > <div class="wrapper">
    > <div class="left-element">
    > <img src="Images/cpvt2.jpg" align="left">
    > </div>
    > <div>
    > <span class="banner" id="banner" style="font-size: '20pt'" >
    > <p>William Wallace van Amber<br>Civil War Diaries &
    > Letters</p></span>
    > </div>
    > <div class="right-element">
    > <img src="Images/uspvt2.jpg" width="70" height="155"
    > align="right">
    > </div>
    > </div>
    > </body>
    > </html>
    >
    > First the validator comlains that "'document type does not allow element
    > "BODY" here' but it was my understanding that what went in each of the
    > frames would be valid html if it were pulled up by itself. Obviously this
    > isn't, but as I said, I don't understand .
    >
    > Second question - if I can't use a <p> where I have it, then how *do* I
    > display a text heading between my two images??
    > --
    > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
     
    get_it, Jan 2, 2005
    #3
  4. Al Jones

    Al Jones Guest

    I shan't go into a discussion about the content of the web site -- thanks
    for the pointer.
    Are you the author - may I toss some questions your way. At least you
    gave me something to look at that has answered a couple of questions for
    me.

    Thanks //al


    On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 22:28:18 -0600, get_it <get > wrote:

    > Free frameset templateS
    >
    > View:
    > http://wholives.com/freetemplates/frameset1/frameset1.htm
    >
    > DOWNLOAD ZIP AT:
    > http://wholives.com/freetemplates/frameset1/frameset1.zip
    >
    > MORE: http://wholives.com/tools/freestuff.htm
    >
    >
    >
    > "Al Jones" <> wrote in message
    > news:1104636341.92899765ed70003799ea59382722833b@teranews...
    >> This is 'default.html' at the moment it's a shell that I'm trying to
    >> start
    >> to fill in. This validates ... for what that's worth at the moment.
    >>
    >> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
    >> "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
    >> <html lang="en">
    >> <head>
    >> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
    >> charset=iso-8859-1">
    >> <title>van Amber Civil War Diaries &&nbsp;Letters</title>
    >> <link href="CssFiles/valetters.css" rel="stylesheet"
    >> type="text/css" >
    >> </head>
    >>
    >> <frameset rows="3">
    >> <frame src="Banner.html"
    >> name="banner"
    >> id="banner"
    >> scrolling="Auto"
    >> class="banner">
    >> <frameset cols="2">
    >> <frame>
    >>
    >> <frame>
    >>
    >> </frameset>
    >> <frame>
    >>
    >> </frameset>
    >> </html>
    >>
    >> This is banner.html and craps all over itself when I try to validate it
    >> -
    >> I'm obviously using the validator as a teching tool.
    >>
    >> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
    >> "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
    >> <html lang="en">
    >> <head>
    >> <title>Banner</title>
    >> <link href="CssFiles/valetters.css" rel="stylesheet"
    >> type="text/css"
    >>
    >> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
    >> charset=iso-8859-1">
    >> <meta name="description" content="">
    >> <meta name="keywords" content="">
    >> <meta name="author" content="">
    >> </head>
    >> <body>
    >> <div class="wrapper">
    >> <div class="left-element">
    >> <img src="Images/cpvt2.jpg" align="left">
    >> </div>
    >> <div>
    >> <span class="banner" id="banner" style="font-size: '20pt'" >
    >> <p>William Wallace van Amber<br>Civil War Diaries &
    >> Letters</p></span>
    >> </div>
    >> <div class="right-element">
    >> <img src="Images/uspvt2.jpg" width="70" height="155"
    >> align="right">
    >> </div>
    >> </div>
    >> </body>
    >> </html>
    >>
    >> First the validator comlains that "'document type does not allow element
    >> "BODY" here' but it was my understanding that what went in each of the
    >> frames would be valid html if it were pulled up by itself. Obviously
    >> this
    >> isn't, but as I said, I don't understand .
    >>
    >> Second question - if I can't use a <p> where I have it, then how *do* I
    >> display a text heading between my two images??
    >> --
    >> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

    >
    >




    --
    Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
     
    Al Jones, Jan 2, 2005
    #4
  5. Al Jones

    Al Jones Guest

    On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 03:53:08 GMT, rf <rf@.invalid> wrote:

    > "Al Jones" <> wrote
    >
    >> This is banner.html and craps all over itself when I try to validate it
    >> -
    >> I'm obviously using the validator as a teching tool.
    >>
    >> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
    >> "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">

    >
    > You should not be using the frameset DTD in a normal page, you should be
    > using transitional or, preferably, strict.

    Thanks for that point. I'm learning by my mistakes ...

    > You also should not be using frames at all.

    This project will end up - I hope - on a CD to be mailed to family
    memebers. With the content, frames is (er, are??) the only way to go.

    After looking at the site that 'get-it' pointed me to, what I see is that
    to put my two soldiers up on either side and the text in the middle I'm
    going to need to revert to a table in that file??

    Either way is going to be awkward -- but a sliding TOC on the left with
    the text of the transcription on the right, seemms to be the most
    realistic. Constructive comments appreciated :)

    Thanks //al


    --
    Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
     
    Al Jones, Jan 2, 2005
    #5
  6. In article <1104636341.92899765ed70003799ea59382722833b@teranews>, Al
    Jones () dropped a +5 bundle of words...

    > This is 'default.html' at the moment it's a shell that I'm trying to start
    > to fill in. This validates ... for what that's worth at the moment.
    >
    > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
    > "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
    > <html lang="en">
    > <head>
    > <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
    > charset=iso-8859-1">
    > <title>van Amber Civil War Diaries &&nbsp;Letters</title>
    > <link href="CssFiles/valetters.css" rel="stylesheet"
    > type="text/css" >
    > </head>
    >
    > <frameset rows="3">
    > <frame src="Banner.html"
    > name="banner"
    > id="banner"
    > scrolling="Auto"
    > class="banner">
    > <frameset cols="2">
    > <frame>
    >
    > <frame>
    >
    > </frameset>
    > <frame>
    >
    > </frameset>
    > </html>
    >
    > This is banner.html and craps all over itself when I try to validate it -
    > I'm obviously using the validator as a teching tool.
    >
    > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
    > "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
    > <html lang="en">
    > <head>
    > <title>Banner</title>
    > <link href="CssFiles/valetters.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" >
    > <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
    > charset=iso-8859-1">
    > <meta name="description" content="">
    > <meta name="keywords" content="">
    > <meta name="author" content="">
    > </head>
    > <body>
    > <div class="wrapper">
    > <div class="left-element">
    > <img src="Images/cpvt2.jpg" align="left">
    > </div>
    > <div>
    > <span class="banner" id="banner" style="font-size: '20pt'" >
    > <p>William Wallace van Amber<br>Civil War Diaries &
    > Letters</p></span>
    > </div>
    > <div class="right-element">
    > <img src="Images/uspvt2.jpg" width="70" height="155"
    > align="right">
    > </div>
    > </div>
    > </body>
    > </html>
    >
    > First the validator comlains that "'document type does not allow element
    > "BODY" here' but it was my understanding that what went in each of the
    > frames would be valid html if it were pulled up by itself. Obviously this
    > isn't, but as I said, I don't understand .


    A frameset *is* a body. That's why you don't use <body></body>

    >
    > Second question - if I can't use a <p> where I have it, then how *do* I
    > display a text heading between my two images??
    >


    <p><span></span></p>

    You also have both a class and an inline style in your span. Pick one.

    --
    Starshine Moonbeam
    mhm31x9 Smeeter#29 WSD#30
    sTaRShInE_mOOnBeAm aT HoTmAil dOt CoM
     
    Starshine Moonbeam, Jan 2, 2005
    #6
  7. Al Jones wrote:

    > Second question - if I can't use a <p> where I have it, then how
    > *do* I display a text heading between my two images??


    This page of mine may give you some ideas for an object centered
    between two images. Look at the HTML and CSS for the first banner, not
    the one forced wide. Replace the center image with your text. If it is
    the page's heading, it should probably be in an <h1></h1>.

    http://home.rochester.rr.com/bshagnasty/banner.html

    --
    -bts
    -This space intentionally left blank.
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Jan 2, 2005
    #7
  8. Al Jones

    Neal Guest

    On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 21:25:49 -0600, Al Jones <>
    wrote:

    > <div>
    > <span class="banner" id="banner" style="font-size: '20pt'" >
    > <p>William Wallace van Amber<br>Civil War Diaries &
    > Letters</p></span>
    > </div>


    > First the validator comlains that "'document type does not allow
    > element "BODY" here' but it was my understanding that what went in each
    > of the frames would be valid html if it were pulled up by itself.
    > Obviously this isn't, but as I said, I don't understand .


    p is in span. Span is inline, p block. That's the p error. Assign the span
    styles to the otherwise-useless div.

    > Second question - if I can't use a <p> where I have it, then how *do* I
    > display a text heading between my two images??


    Mark up the content according to what it is, not what you want it to look
    like. Use stylesheets to suggest presentation.
     
    Neal, Jan 2, 2005
    #8
  9. Al Jones wrote:
    > This is 'default.html' at the moment it's a shell that I'm trying to
    > start to fill in...

    <snip>

    URL

    --
    -=tn=-
     
    Travis Newbury, Jan 2, 2005
    #9
  10. Al Jones

    Al Jones Guest

    On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 01:23:47 -0500, Beauregard T. Shagnasty
    <> wrote:

    > Al Jones wrote:
    >
    >> Second question - if I can't use a <p> where I have it, then how
    >> *do* I display a text heading between my two images??

    >
    > This page of mine may give you some ideas for an object centered between
    > two images. Look at the HTML and CSS for the first banner, not the one
    > forced wide. Replace the center image with your text. If it is the
    > page's heading, it should probably be in an <h1></h1>.
    >
    > http://home.rochester.rr.com/bshagnasty/banner.html
    >

    Okay, (thanks, btw) I've quite literally pulled a lot of your file into
    this one (http://brendasfire.com/amej/banner.html) I have this slung off a
    friends web site, some of you might find her's interesting.

    I think you can see what I'm trying to do -- and it's disgusting to see
    that three out of three of the dmoe programs I'm looking at *don't*
    display in their 'browsers' what I see when I bring this site up in opera
    or IE.

    I obviously have the background image in the wrong place as it doesn't
    show at all.

    Comments / suggestions.

    My comments:
    This project will probably never see the light of day on the net. My
    intention is to put this group of letters on a cd to be distributed to
    interrested family members.
    It's an exercise for me to learn HTML/CSS and produce something for my
    family.

    --
    Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
     
    Al Jones, Jan 2, 2005
    #10
  11. Al Jones wrote:

    > On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 01:23:47 -0500, Beauregard T. Shagnasty
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> Al Jones wrote:
    >>
    >>> Second question - if I can't use a <p> where I have it, then
    >>> how *do* I display a text heading between my two images??

    >>
    >> This page of mine may give you some ideas for an object centered
    >> between two images. Look at the HTML and CSS for the first
    >> banner, not the one forced wide. Replace the center image with
    >> your text. If it is the page's heading, it should probably be in
    >> an <h1></h1>.
    >>
    >> http://home.rochester.rr.com/bshagnasty/banner.html
    >>

    > Okay, (thanks, btw) I've quite literally pulled a lot of your file
    > into this one (http://brendasfire.com/amej/banner.html) I have this
    > slung off a friends web site, some of you might find her's
    > interesting.


    If that little bit of text is all that is going to be in the center,
    you may want to add some top padding to it to bring it down to the
    center of the images. Maybe it should be an <h1> instead of <p>.

    > I think you can see what I'm trying to do -- and it's disgusting to
    > see that three out of three of the dmoe programs I'm looking at
    > *don't* display in their 'browsers' what I see when I bring this
    > site up in opera or IE.


    Yes, I see. Is "dmoe" to be "demo"? Not sure what you meant there.

    > I obviously have the background image in the wrong place as it
    > doesn't show at all.


    Depends on where you want the background image. In the banner? For the
    whole page?

    body {
    background: url("images/vvltgrayparch.jpg") #66ccff repeat;
    }

    Pick a color code that matches the bg of the image. If that graphic is
    textured, be real sure it does not obscure the page's text. Most any
    texturizing is a bad idea.

    > My comments: This project will probably never see the light of day
    > on the net. My intention is to put this group of letters on a cd
    > to be distributed to interrested family members. It's an exercise
    > for me to learn HTML/CSS and produce something for my family.


    Exercise is good for you. ;-)

    --
    -bts
    -This space intentionally left blank.
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Jan 2, 2005
    #11
  12. Al Jones

    Al Jones Guest

    On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 13:39:54 -0500, Beauregard T. Shagnasty
    <> wrote:

    << Snipped >>
    > Exercise is good for you. ;-)
    >

    Yeh, thanks ... I already don't cast a shadow!

    Would you mind looking at http://brendasfire.com/amej/default.html with IE
    and then almost anything else.
    I have Firefox and Opera (my normal browser) and as expected things don't
    look the same.

    If you want, point me toward a reference - I don't mind being told to 'go
    look at this.'

    If you (all) have the patience -
    why does the banner drop down so far?
    why in IE do the img appear on top of the background and in FF and OP
    under it?
    what the blazes happened to my two other frames that should appear
    beneath the banner?
    While they're good items to be replaced - as they stand they're valid
    html (I think?)

    Once I get enough into my head, I'll stop asking dumb questions, but for
    the nonce I don't know enough not to. My thanks //al

    --
    Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
     
    Al Jones, Jan 3, 2005
    #12
  13. Al Jones wrote:
    > On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 13:39:54 -0500, Beauregard T. Shagnasty
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > << Snipped >>
    >
    > Would you mind looking at http://brendasfire.com/amej/default.html
    > with IE and then almost anything else. I have Firefox and Opera
    > (my normal browser) and as expected things don't look the same.


    But they should ... <g> My sites look the same in all browsers.

    > If you want, point me toward a reference - I don't mind being told
    > to 'go look at this.'
    >
    > If you (all) have the patience - why does the banner drop down so
    > far?


    Because of the height of the images?

    > why in IE do the img appear on top of the background and in FF and
    > OP under it?


    You have the background image on both the boxbanner and the
    bannerleft/right spans. I'm guessing that FF/Opera are correct. Try
    removing the bg from the spans, and only use in the boxbanner.

    Or only on the body. In any case, it should be just one place.

    What happens if you use a Strict doctype (as you should for all new
    documents)?

    > what the blazes happened to my two other frames that should appear
    > beneath the banner? While they're good items to be replaced - as
    > they stand they're valid html (I think?)


    As I think frames are evil, I will pass on this question.

    > Once I get enough into my head, I'll stop asking dumb questions,
    > but for the nonce I don't know enough not to. My thanks //al


    --
    -bts
    -This space intentionally left blank.
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Jan 3, 2005
    #13
  14. Al Jones

    jake Guest

    In message <1104718981.76fee6aa8941abe740713e4c1ee19688@teranews>, Al
    Jones <> writes
    >On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 13:39:54 -0500, Beauregard T. Shagnasty
    ><> wrote:
    >

    [snip]

    >Would you mind looking at http://brendasfire.com/amej/default.html with
    >IE and then almost anything else.
    >I have Firefox and Opera (my normal browser) and as expected things
    >don't look the same.
    >

    [snip]

    > what the blazes happened to my two other frames that should
    >appear beneath the banner?
    > While they're good items to be replaced - as they stand they're
    >valid html (I think?)
    >

    [snip]

    Specify columns and rows as lists of lengths (%, px, *)

    http://www.gododdin.demon.co.uk/ng/testframe.html

    "Frames are your friends"
    Copyright 2004-2005 Duende ;-)

    >


    --
    Jake
     
    jake, Jan 3, 2005
    #14
  15. Al Jones

    Al Jones Guest

    On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 10:56:29 +0000, jake <> wrote:

    > In message <1104718981.76fee6aa8941abe740713e4c1ee19688@teranews>, Al
    > Jones <> writes


    <<snipped>>

    >> what the blazes happened to my two other frames that should
    >> appear beneath the banner?
    >> While they're good items to be replaced - as they stand they're
    >> valid html (I think?)
    >>

    > [snip]
    >
    > Specify columns and rows as lists of lengths (%, px, *)
    >
    > http://www.gododdin.demon.co.uk/ng/testframe.html
    >
    > "Frames are your friends"
    > Copyright 2004-2005 Duende ;-)
    >

    Thanks Jake, any help on that banner ... why the browsers handlle it that
    differently is disgusting!
     
    Al Jones, Jan 3, 2005
    #15
    1. Advertising

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