how can I obtain parentheses in an ordered list?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Pierre Trochu, Feb 1, 2007.

  1. Hello,
    how can I obtain parentheses in an ordered list?
    for example,
    <ol>
    <li>item one</li>
    <li>item two</li>
    </ol>
    gives
    1. item one
    2. item two
    but I would like to obtain this:
    1) item one
    2) item two
    Tkanks to everybody for your concern...
    Pierre
    Pierre Trochu, Feb 1, 2007
    #1
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  2. Scripsit Pierre Trochu:

    > how can I obtain parentheses in an ordered list?


    You cannot.

    > but I would like to obtain this:
    > 1) item one
    > 2) item two


    The best workaround is to put the numbers into the item contents and to use
    <ul> without bullets. (<ul> is illogical, but using <ol> you would take the
    risk that when CSS is off, the user sees both the browser-generated numbers
    and your numbers.)

    Use

    <ul style="list-style-type: none">
    <li>1)item one</li>
    <li>2)item two</li>
    </ul>

    --
    Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")
    http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Jukka K. Korpela, Feb 1, 2007
    #2
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  3. Pierre Trochu

    dorayme Guest

    In article <g%uwh.1898$>,
    "Jukka K. Korpela" <> wrote:

    > The best workaround is to put the numbers into the item contents and to use
    > <ul> without bullets.


    Indeed, it looks a reasonable solution.

    > (<ul> is illogical,...


    Whether it is quite illogical or not depends on the details of
    how to interpret the notion of ol and ul. How to interpret the
    use of it in any particular context. I say it is not a simple
    matter.

    Presumably the ideal of an ordered list is one where the order
    matters greatly as in an algorithm.

    Presumably an unordered list is one where the order does not
    matter greatly in terms of the meaning as in a shopping list
    given to the husband by a wife who expects it to be completely
    implemented without any excuses!

    But these are ideals that do not quite fit many real life
    situations.

    The team for today is... All boys must ensure the correct
    numbered football shirt....

    might be ordered by shirt number or surname or not at all. In
    fact, there is a choice and the ultimate usefulness of the
    information is independent of the ordering or non ordering. Each
    boy must see the number for himself and get the right shirt. It
    may assist the boys to order the list. How far this assistance
    has a semantic import seems to me not to be like the case of the
    algorithm or the ordering of a DNA sequence or other things where
    order is crucial.

    In an unordered list, no item has to be where it is, if it were
    elsewhere, no one would misunderstand anything.

    But unordered lists are inescapably ordered in time or position,
    there is a first... and last item. It could be different and it
    might not matter, but there is some de facto ordering by the list
    maker. The purpose of an ordered list might be to give a handle
    to readers who wish to refer to one item conveniently. In a way
    it does not matter what order is given as long as some order is
    and for a purpose other than to give meaning. This could well be
    accomplished by an unordered list with markers inside the list
    item, numbers or whatever.

    I will stop babbling now, but I don't think your suggestion is so
    clearly illogical. We would need to know more about the context
    in which the OP is using it. I was a little dismayed that you
    left out your usual good advice about the importance of
    supplying a url.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Feb 2, 2007
    #3
  4. Pierre Trochu

    Ed Mullen Guest

    dorayme wrote:
    > In article <g%uwh.1898$>,
    > "Jukka K. Korpela" <> wrote:
    >
    >> The best workaround is to put the numbers into the item contents and to use
    >> <ul> without bullets.

    >
    > Indeed, it looks a reasonable solution.
    >
    >> (<ul> is illogical,...

    >
    > Whether it is quite illogical or not depends on the details of
    > how to interpret the notion of ol and ul. How to interpret the
    > use of it in any particular context. I say it is not a simple
    > matter.
    >
    > Presumably the ideal of an ordered list is one where the order
    > matters greatly as in an algorithm.
    >
    > Presumably an unordered list is one where the order does not
    > matter greatly in terms of the meaning as in a shopping list
    > given to the husband by a wife who expects it to be completely
    > implemented without any excuses!
    >
    > But these are ideals that do not quite fit many real life
    > situations.
    >
    > The team for today is... All boys must ensure the correct
    > numbered football shirt....
    >
    > might be ordered by shirt number or surname or not at all. In
    > fact, there is a choice and the ultimate usefulness of the
    > information is independent of the ordering or non ordering. Each
    > boy must see the number for himself and get the right shirt. It
    > may assist the boys to order the list. How far this assistance
    > has a semantic import seems to me not to be like the case of the
    > algorithm or the ordering of a DNA sequence or other things where
    > order is crucial.
    >
    > In an unordered list, no item has to be where it is, if it were
    > elsewhere, no one would misunderstand anything.
    >
    > But unordered lists are inescapably ordered in time or position,
    > there is a first... and last item. It could be different and it
    > might not matter, but there is some de facto ordering by the list
    > maker. The purpose of an ordered list might be to give a handle
    > to readers who wish to refer to one item conveniently. In a way
    > it does not matter what order is given as long as some order is
    > and for a purpose other than to give meaning. This could well be
    > accomplished by an unordered list with markers inside the list
    > item, numbers or whatever.
    >
    > I will stop babbling now, but I don't think your suggestion is so
    > clearly illogical. We would need to know more about the context
    > in which the OP is using it. I was a little dismayed that you
    > left out your usual good advice about the importance of
    > supplying a url.
    >


    Fascinating, and hardly babbling. Frankly, I've never understood the
    concepts of HTML "ordered" and "unordered" lists. Who the heck thought
    that up? I think the presumptions you cited are silly, although the
    logic is impeccable considering the standard.

    I prefer to think of them as "numbered" and "un-numbered." In business
    communications, certainly, part of the success of a presentation is the
    content and part is the appearance. Order is important whether the list
    is numbered or not. I most definitely DO care how each point flows into
    the next regardless of annotation style. I prefer bullets rather than
    numbers as a presentation style in most cases (and most business
    presentations are done that way), unless there is a need later in a
    document to refer upwards as in: "Referring to number 6 above ..."

    And, BTW, I've just added "dorayme" to my SeaMonkey dictionary as the
    spell checker keeps suggesting that I change it to "deodorant." I just
    couldn't stand the indignity anymore. I will say that one of the other
    options in the list was "adorable." That's not bad! ;-)

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    http://mozilla.edmullen.net
    http://abington.edmullen.net
    A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
    Ed Mullen, Feb 2, 2007
    #4
  5. Pierre Trochu

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Ed Mullen <> wrote:

    > dorayme wrote:
    > > In article <g%uwh.1898$>,
    > > "Jukka K. Korpela" <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> The best workaround is to put the numbers into the item contents and to
    > >> use
    > >> <ul> without bullets.

    > >
    > > Indeed, it looks a reasonable solution.
    > >
    > >> (<ul> is illogical,...

    > >
    > > Whether it is quite illogical or not depends on the details of
    > > how to interpret the notion of ol and ul. How to interpret the
    > > use of it in any particular context. I say it is not a simple
    > > matter.

    .....


    > > I will stop babbling now, but I don't think your suggestion is so
    > > clearly illogical. We would need to know more about the context
    > > in which the OP is using it.


    >
    > Fascinating, and hardly babbling. Frankly, I've never understood the
    > concepts of HTML "ordered" and "unordered" lists. Who the heck thought
    > that up? I think the presumptions you cited are silly, although the
    > logic is impeccable considering the standard.
    >


    Not quite understanding you re the presumptions?

    > I prefer to think of them as "numbered" and "un-numbered." In business
    > communications, certainly, part of the success of a presentation is the
    > content and part is the appearance. Order is important whether the list
    > is numbered or not. I most definitely DO care how each point flows into
    > the next regardless of annotation style. I prefer bullets rather than
    > numbers as a presentation style in most cases (and most business
    > presentations are done that way), unless there is a need later in a
    > document to refer upwards as in: "Referring to number 6 above ..."
    >


    Part of the idea of the distinction in the html is not to do with
    style, imagine css turned off or even better, no list markers to
    show. There would then, in the clearest and best uses of either,
    be a distinction being conveyed about order (see my previous
    examples of extremes, the algorithm versus the shopping list
    under simple and realistic assumptions)


    > And, BTW, I've just added "dorayme" to my SeaMonkey dictionary as the
    > spell checker keeps suggesting that I change it to "deodorant." I just
    > couldn't stand the indignity anymore. I will say that one of the other
    > options in the list was "adorable." That's not bad! ;-)


    Blush! I have occasionally wondered about befriending a sea
    monkey (as a last resort, if all else were to fail). Now I know
    it will not rebuff me straight away...

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Feb 2, 2007
    #5
  6. Pierre Trochu

    Ed Mullen Guest

    dorayme wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > Ed Mullen <> wrote:
    >
    >> dorayme wrote:
    >>> In article <g%uwh.1898$>,
    >>> "Jukka K. Korpela" <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> The best workaround is to put the numbers into the item contents and to
    >>>> use
    >>>> <ul> without bullets.
    >>> Indeed, it looks a reasonable solution.
    >>>
    >>>> (<ul> is illogical,...
    >>> Whether it is quite illogical or not depends on the details of
    >>> how to interpret the notion of ol and ul. How to interpret the
    >>> use of it in any particular context. I say it is not a simple
    >>> matter.

    > ....
    >
    >
    >>> I will stop babbling now, but I don't think your suggestion is so
    >>> clearly illogical. We would need to know more about the context
    >>> in which the OP is using it.

    >
    >> Fascinating, and hardly babbling. Frankly, I've never understood the
    >> concepts of HTML "ordered" and "unordered" lists. Who the heck thought
    >> that up? I think the presumptions you cited are silly, although the
    >> logic is impeccable considering the standard.
    >>

    >
    > Not quite understanding you re the presumptions?


    Your presumptions make sense. I disagree with the standard that makes
    the presumptions logical. Meaning, if it's called an "ordered list,"
    sure, it's logical to presume that the order is important. And
    vice-versa. I just think the idea of an unordered list is kinda silly.
    I can't think of any meaningful communication (even a grocery store
    list) that shouldn't be in some useful order. Doesn't need to be
    numbered but the meat should be grouped together, the dairy, the frozen
    food, the soft drinks, cleaning supplies, etc. Otherwise I'm either
    constantly walking back and forth across the store or I'm constantly
    stopping to read through the list to figure out: "Hmm. Do I need to go
    up this aisle? And how many things do I need in this aisle?" And, yes,
    I DO order my shopping list. ;-)

    >
    >> I prefer to think of them as "numbered" and "un-numbered." In business
    >> communications, certainly, part of the success of a presentation is the
    >> content and part is the appearance. Order is important whether the list
    >> is numbered or not. I most definitely DO care how each point flows into
    >> the next regardless of annotation style. I prefer bullets rather than
    >> numbers as a presentation style in most cases (and most business
    >> presentations are done that way), unless there is a need later in a
    >> document to refer upwards as in: "Referring to number 6 above ..."
    >>

    >
    > Part of the idea of the distinction in the html is not to do with
    > style, imagine css turned off or even better, no list markers to
    > show. There would then, in the clearest and best uses of either,
    > be a distinction being conveyed about order (see my previous
    > examples of extremes, the algorithm versus the shopping list
    > under simple and realistic assumptions)


    My turn to not be sure. A list of numbered items is, to me, no more or
    less ordered than a list with (or without) bullets. I read left to
    right, top to bottom. I assume the writer meant to put the items in the
    order in which they appear. Numbers or bullets are, to me, a nicety of
    visual style. Although, a numbered list does visually convey a more
    rigidly disciplined approach.

    >> And, BTW, I've just added "dorayme" to my SeaMonkey dictionary as the
    >> spell checker keeps suggesting that I change it to "deodorant." I just
    >> couldn't stand the indignity anymore. I will say that one of the other
    >> options in the list was "adorable." That's not bad! ;-)

    >
    > Blush! I have occasionally wondered about befriending a sea
    > monkey (as a last resort, if all else were to fail). Now I know
    > it will not rebuff me straight away...


    Always a nice notion, to have a fallback position! :)

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    http://mozilla.edmullen.net
    http://abington.edmullen.net
    I just got a physical and asked the doctor, "How do I stand?" He said,
    "That's what puzzles me!"
    Ed Mullen, Feb 2, 2007
    #6
  7. Pierre Trochu

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Ed Mullen <> wrote:

    > dorayme wrote:
    > > In article <>,
    > > Ed Mullen <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> dorayme wrote:


    > > Not quite understanding you re the presumptions?

    >
    > Your presumptions make sense. I disagree with the standard that makes
    > the presumptions logical. Meaning, if it's called an "ordered list,"
    > sure, it's logical to presume that the order is important. And
    > vice-versa. I just think the idea of an unordered list is kinda silly.
    > I can't think of any meaningful communication (even a grocery store
    > list) that shouldn't be in some useful order. Doesn't need to be
    > numbered but the meat should be grouped together, the dairy, the frozen
    > food, the soft drinks, cleaning supplies, etc. Otherwise I'm either
    > constantly walking back and forth across the store or I'm constantly
    > stopping to read through the list to figure out: "Hmm. Do I need to go
    > up this aisle? And how many things do I need in this aisle?" And, yes,
    > I DO order my shopping list. ;-)
    >


    Well, what you are doing, if I may say, is concentrating on the
    cases that make it hard to know. This does not make the clear
    cases disappear. Simply imagine a clearer case, your wife gives
    you a list of things to get from the dairy section. Or a
    particular shelf even!

    But I agree that real life ordering is a complicated business.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Feb 2, 2007
    #7
  8. Pierre Trochu

    Ed Mullen Guest

    dorayme wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > Ed Mullen <> wrote:
    >
    >> dorayme wrote:
    >>> In article <>,
    >>> Ed Mullen <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> dorayme wrote:

    >
    >>> Not quite understanding you re the presumptions?

    >> Your presumptions make sense. I disagree with the standard that makes
    >> the presumptions logical. Meaning, if it's called an "ordered list,"
    >> sure, it's logical to presume that the order is important. And
    >> vice-versa. I just think the idea of an unordered list is kinda silly.
    >> I can't think of any meaningful communication (even a grocery store
    >> list) that shouldn't be in some useful order. Doesn't need to be
    >> numbered but the meat should be grouped together, the dairy, the frozen
    >> food, the soft drinks, cleaning supplies, etc. Otherwise I'm either
    >> constantly walking back and forth across the store or I'm constantly
    >> stopping to read through the list to figure out: "Hmm. Do I need to go
    >> up this aisle? And how many things do I need in this aisle?" And, yes,
    >> I DO order my shopping list. ;-)
    >>

    >
    > Well, what you are doing, if I may say, is concentrating on the
    > cases that make it hard to know. This does not make the clear
    > cases disappear. Simply imagine a clearer case, your wife gives
    > you a list of things to get from the dairy section. Or a
    > particular shelf even!


    Are you saying that order, in this example, makes no difference?
    Because, well, <sigh> I do all the shopping and I do actually order my
    lists that way: In the dairy section it's: butter, milk, eggs.
    Because that's the way the store's laid out. Meat products?
    Lunch-meats, chicken, pork, beef. Oh, ok, when it comes to produce I
    don't care because I like to browse. But a grocery list isn't really
    communication the way a Web page or Powerpoint presentation is. But,
    hey, at least I don't use bullets or numbers on my grocery list!

    > But I agree that real life ordering is a complicated business.


    Yep, messy business this life stuff.

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    http://mozilla.edmullen.net
    http://abington.edmullen.net
    What's another word for synonym?
    Ed Mullen, Feb 2, 2007
    #8
  9. Re: how can I obtain parentheses in an ordered list? (OT)

    dorayme wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > Ed Mullen <> wrote:

    <snip>
    >> And, BTW, I've just added "dorayme" to my SeaMonkey dictionary as the
    >> spell checker keeps suggesting that I change it to "deodorant." I just
    >> couldn't stand the indignity anymore. I will say that one of the other
    >> options in the list was "adorable." That's not bad! ;-)

    >
    > Blush! I have occasionally wondered about befriending a sea
    > monkey (as a last resort, if all else were to fail). Now I know
    > it will not rebuff me straight away...


    Well I did that long ago for that I'd make an embarrassing "correction"
    in my posts, I make enough already! Just wish ver 1.1 didn't trash the
    Mnenhy extension.



    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Feb 2, 2007
    #9
  10. Pierre Trochu

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Ed Mullen <> wrote:

    > > Well, what you are doing, if I may say, is concentrating on the
    > > cases that make it hard to know. This does not make the clear
    > > cases disappear. Simply imagine a clearer case, your wife gives
    > > you a list of things to get from the dairy section. Or a
    > > particular shelf even!

    >
    > Are you saying that order, in this example, makes no difference?


    What am saying is that if you were to make a shopping list which
    you would access on your handheld to remind yourself in the store
    and the list was of items on one small shelf, the order of the
    items might well not matter. If the order mattered to you, you
    might use an ordered list even in this case (to indicate to get
    the lower order numbered items first in case you run out of money.

    There is no denying the sense of the distinction, but it is an
    interesting question (when not flirting with sea monkeys, say)
    how it fits in real life cases.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Feb 2, 2007
    #10
  11. Pierre Trochu

    Ed Mullen Guest

    dorayme wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > Ed Mullen <> wrote:
    >
    >>> Well, what you are doing, if I may say, is concentrating on the
    >>> cases that make it hard to know. This does not make the clear
    >>> cases disappear. Simply imagine a clearer case, your wife gives
    >>> you a list of things to get from the dairy section. Or a
    >>> particular shelf even!

    >> Are you saying that order, in this example, makes no difference?

    >
    > What am saying is that if you were to make a shopping list which
    > you would access on your handheld to remind yourself in the store
    > and the list was of items on one small shelf, the order of the
    > items might well not matter.


    Ah! Ok, agreed. If I, say, needed 75 watt and 100 watt light bulbs, no
    matter what order they are in. Indeed.

    > If the order mattered to you, you
    > might use an ordered list even in this case (to indicate to get
    > the lower order numbered items first in case you run out of money.


    Again, indeed. And I would NOT care if the list items were numbered or
    not (I do know how to read from top to bottom and understand the
    intrinsic implication of that top-down order). Um, but, my point is
    that in this HTML standards thingie we are grappling with, a <ul> is not
    numbered and a <ol> is and the nomenclature chosen for them is silly.
    The lists are both in order and the order matters in virtually all
    cases. It should have been <nl> for numbered list and <bl> for bulleted
    list. And, maybe, <pl> for plain list?

    I suppose the upshot is that, while it's been an enjoyable and
    fascinating discussion, I'm going to use the damned things as I see fit
    no matter what they are called, pedants not-with-standing (and I'm not
    directing that at you!). The meaning comes first, then we'll figure out
    how to print the damned books (Web pages, etc.). Because you're dead on
    with your comments about real life application.

    > There is no denying the sense of the distinction, but it is an
    > interesting question (when not flirting with sea monkeys, say)
    > how it fits in real life cases.


    Exactly, and a wonderful point. Well, about the lists. Yes, and also
    about real life versus what an engineer's mental process may have been
    during the design phase of this. Well, hell, ok, about the sea monkeys too!

    And now I must go replenish my libation. That is, very much, first (and
    next) on my list. Un-numbered of course.

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    http://mozilla.edmullen.net
    http://abington.edmullen.net
    All I ask is a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
    Ed Mullen, Feb 2, 2007
    #11
  12. Pierre Trochu

    Ed Mullen Guest

    Re: how can I obtain parentheses in an ordered list? (OT)

    Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    > dorayme wrote:
    >> In article <>,
    >> Ed Mullen <> wrote:

    > <snip>
    >>> And, BTW, I've just added "dorayme" to my SeaMonkey dictionary as the
    >>> spell checker keeps suggesting that I change it to "deodorant." I
    >>> just couldn't stand the indignity anymore. I will say that one of
    >>> the other options in the list was "adorable." That's not bad! ;-)

    >>
    >> Blush! I have occasionally wondered about befriending a sea monkey (as
    >> a last resort, if all else were to fail). Now I know it will not
    >> rebuff me straight away...

    >
    > Well I did that long ago for that I'd make an embarrassing "correction"
    > in my posts, I make enough already! Just wish ver 1.1 didn't trash the
    > Mnenhy extension.


    Not sure about that one but have you tried to hack the extension and
    change the version number limitation? Or is it a real incompatibility?

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    http://mozilla.edmullen.net
    http://abington.edmullen.net
    Try not to let your mind wander. it's too small and fragile to be out by
    itself.
    Ed Mullen, Feb 2, 2007
    #12
  13. Re: how can I obtain parentheses in an ordered list? (OT)

    Ed Mullen wrote:
    > Jonathan N. Little wrote:


    >> Well I did that long ago for that I'd make an embarrassing
    >> "correction" in my posts, I make enough already! Just wish ver 1.1
    >> didn't trash the Mnenhy extension.

    >
    > Not sure about that one but have you tried to hack the extension and
    > change the version number limitation? Or is it a real incompatibility?
    >


    Naw! A real incompatibility. Mnenhy gives add functionality to
    mail|newgroups of which is extended headers functions, like X-Face and
    clickable reference links and more. With 1.1 you lose the header display
    entirely, almost like it is stuck in 'brief' header mode. Bug has been
    filed with author. Hope he will get it fixed soon.

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Feb 2, 2007
    #13
  14. Ed Mullen wrote:

    > In the dairy section it's: butter, milk, eggs.


    Cows lay eggs now?

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
    Geek of ~ HTML/CSS/Javascript/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python*/Apache/Linux

    * = I'm getting there!
    Toby A Inkster, Feb 2, 2007
    #14
  15. Ed Mullen wrote:

    > Ah! Ok, agreed. If I, say, needed 75 watt and 100 watt light bulbs, no
    > matter what order they are in. Indeed.


    Personally, I'd order them numerically by power usage.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
    Geek of ~ HTML/CSS/Javascript/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python*/Apache/Linux

    * = I'm getting there!
    Toby A Inkster, Feb 2, 2007
    #15
  16. Toby A Inkster wrote:
    > Ed Mullen wrote:
    >
    >> In the dairy section it's: butter, milk, eggs.

    >
    > Cows lay eggs now?
    >

    Always been a mystery of the Supermarket!

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Feb 2, 2007
    #16
  17. Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    > Toby A Inkster wrote:
    >> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>
    >>> In the dairy section it's: butter, milk, eggs.

    >>
    >> Cows lay eggs now?
    >>

    > Always been a mystery of the Supermarket!


    That's always puzzled me, too. :)

    But I just figured it out, finally! "Dairy" is grocery store short for
    "Things That Come Out Of Animals Department But Not Pieces Of The Animal
    Itself". It allows smaller signs.


    --
    Blinky RLU 297263
    Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html
    Blinky the Shark, Feb 2, 2007
    #17
  18. Blinky the Shark wrote:
    > Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    >> Toby A Inkster wrote:
    >>> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> In the dairy section it's: butter, milk, eggs.
    >>> Cows lay eggs now?
    >>>

    >> Always been a mystery of the Supermarket!

    >
    > That's always puzzled me, too. :)
    >
    > But I just figured it out, finally! "Dairy" is grocery store short for
    > "Things That Come Out Of Animals Department But Not Pieces Of The Animal
    > Itself". It allows smaller signs.
    >

    Sometimes the stuff looks like "compost" in the grocery store, but I
    hope not to find it in the Dairy section!

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Feb 2, 2007
    #18
  19. Pierre Trochu

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Ed Mullen <> wrote:

    > Um, but, my point is
    > that in this HTML standards thingie we are grappling with, a <ul> is not
    > numbered and a <ol> is and the nomenclature chosen for them is silly.
    > The lists are both in order and the order matters in virtually all
    > cases.


    In a short shopping list, it often does not matter. Nor in a list
    of links (how many of us have wondered, what does it matter which
    order we put them in regarding any semantic message to the
    reader).

    But such cavalierity could cause disaster in an algorithm.

    About numbering, that is quite optional in <ol>s, I am not sure
    what it is you are objecting to.

    It is true, of course, that <ul>s have a de facto order. But if
    you are really finding that you are using such an order to convey
    information (as, for example, in giving an algorithm - possibly
    similar to the case that started this thread) then this needs to
    be made clear in some way if it is not simply obvious from
    context. By the use of number ordering, for instance. By some
    words to the effect of like "Do these in order". It seems to me,
    to come back and add to my original point, it is not so illogical
    to use ul if you also otherwise make clear an order. The idea of
    <ol>, as far as I can see is to make it context independent. In
    fact, I suspect people sometimes use <ol> in the html when it
    does not matter what the order is but they wish to give the items
    a handle for referral purposes later. Frankly, I think this part
    of html could be simplified but I won't go on...

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Feb 2, 2007
    #19
  20. Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    > Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >> Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    >>> Toby A Inkster wrote:
    >>>> Ed Mullen wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> In the dairy section it's: butter, milk, eggs.
    >>>> Cows lay eggs now?
    >>>>
    >>> Always been a mystery of the Supermarket!

    >>
    >> That's always puzzled me, too. :)
    >>
    >> But I just figured it out, finally! "Dairy" is grocery store short for
    >> "Things That Come Out Of Animals Department But Not Pieces Of The Animal
    >> Itself". It allows smaller signs.
    >>

    > Sometimes the stuff looks like "compost" in the grocery store, but I
    > hope not to find it in the Dairy section!


    Well, luckily it's not "Everything That Comes Out Of Animals But Not
    Pieces Of The Animal Itself". ;)

    --
    Blinky RLU 297263
    Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html
    Blinky the Shark, Feb 3, 2007
    #20
    1. Advertising

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