How to set html page without scrollbars

[thomas]

Dear all,

I write a html which can display info. scrolling automatically. Therefore, I
want to remove both the horizontal and vertical scrollbars. Please tell me
such html tag, many thanks.

Regards,
Simon

 

[Mark Parnell]

I write a html which can display info. scrolling automatically.
Therefore, I want to remove both the horizontal and vertical
scrollbars. Please tell me such html tag, many thanks.

There isn't one. Why are you trying to reinvent basic browser
functionality? The browser already has scrollbars. Users know how to use
them. What's the point in breaking that (unless you are trying to piss off
your users)?

 

[William Tasso]

I write a html which can display info. scrolling automatically.

No you can't

Therefore, I want to remove both the horizontal and vertical
scrollbars. Please tell me such html tag, many thanks.

There isn't one

 

[DU]

Dear all,

I write a html which can display info. scrolling automatically. Therefore, I
want to remove both the horizontal and vertical scrollbars. Please tell me
such html tag, many thanks.

Regards,
Simon

Scrollbars exist and are viewable for 2 reasons basically:

1- to visually indicate to the user that the content overflows the
containing box (or browser viewport) dimensions: mousewheel, keyboard
navigational keys (arrows, home, end, Ctrl+home, Ctrl+end) do not even
do that.
2- to offer a mechanism (represented by a pseudo document-elevator-like
widget) to reach in a controlled manner clipped content

That is what the specs are saying. That is how thousands of
document-based and window-based softwares have been working and using
scrollbars in the last 20 years; that's how they have been displaying
and rendering scrollbars and scrollbars functionalities in all operating
systems.
Therefore there is nothing inherently bad, wrong or ill with scrollbars.
A scrollbar is a mechanism to reach, to access content that you do not
see or can not see in the document view (or content view in the large
sense).

Everyone who is trying to eradicate, eliminate scrollbars everywhere are
not understanding that by doing so, they reduce accessibility to content
and basic normal usability of webpage and windows. By trying to remove
scrollbars (in all circumstances), they are going against their own best
interests as web developers.

DU
--
Javascript and Browser bugs:
http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunclear/
- Resources, help and tips for Netscape 7.x users and Composer
- Interactive demos on Popup windows, music (audio/midi) in Netscape 7.x
http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunclear/Netscape7/Netscape7Section.html

 

[Nico Schuyt]

thomas wrote

I write a html which can display info. scrolling automatically.
Therefore, I
want to remove both the horizontal and vertical scrollbars. Please tell me
such html tag, many thanks.

Well, you could use frames of course but the advantages are too great in
most cases.
Vertical scrolling can be prevented with a flexible design (measures of
elements in % instead of px)
When you use a CSS box with overflow: auto and height: 80% (or another
percentage) that has its own scroll bars when necessary. The horizontal bar
of the main window can be further suppressed (IE) with:
body {
margin: 0;
font-family: sans-serif;
height: 100%;
overflow: hidden;
overflow-y: hidden;}

Nico

 

[Mark Parnell]

thomas wrote


Well, you could use frames of course but the advantages are too great ^^^^^^^^^^
disadvantages??

in most cases.
Vertical scrolling can be prevented with a flexible design (measures

^^^^^^^^
Horizontal??

Falling asleep, Nico?

 

[DU]

Dear all,

I write a html which can display info. scrolling automatically. Therefore, I
want to remove both the horizontal and vertical scrollbars. Please tell me
such html tag, many thanks.

Regards,
Simon

Here's more arguments for you to consider. The position of major browser
manufacturers on rendering scrollbars (if needed, if content overflows
browser window viewport). They give veto powers to users. In that sense,
they comply with CSS1 and CSS2 specs.

Opera 7.x: File/Preferences...Alt+P/Windows/Show scrollbars and smooth
scrolling are checkboxes at the disposal of the user. The user has the
final word and the veto power on the web developer here. Opera 7 has
offers numerous predefined/accessibility stylesheets and let you define
your own.

Mozilla-based browsers (17 different browsers including Netscape 7.x):
This is what I have in my user.js file

user_pref("dom.disable_window_open_feature.scrollbars", true);
user_pref("layout.frames.force_resizability", true);

and if I wanted to, I could be able to edit the userContent.css and
impose, say,
document.documentElement.style.overflow = auto !important;
document.body.style.overflow = auto !important;
and most likely other declarations supporting the rendering of
scrollbars when needed (in userChrome.css or elsewhere). There is even
Bug 72540: Web pages should have a persistant scrollbar for all pages
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=72540
which is the same equivalent result that MSIE 6 went for:
overflow:scroll for body and root element.

MSIE 6:
Tools/Internet Options.../General tab/Accessibility... button/User style
sheet/Format documents using my style sheet checkbox/Browse style sheet/

document.documentElement.style.overflowY = auto !important; //overiding
default browser value of scroll;
document.documentElement.style.overflow = auto !important; //overiding
default browser value of scroll;

I have not tested this with MSIE 6 but I sure intend to.


The web developer has to concede that the only people who is going to be
using their own browser to view his content is the users. And browser
manufacturers and W3C TRs give the users the final word on the scrollbar
issue.

DU
--
Javascript and Browser bugs:
http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunclear/
- Resources, help and tips for Netscape 7.x users and Composer
- Interactive demos on Popup windows, music (audio/midi) in Netscape 7.x
http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunclear/Netscape7/Netscape7Section.html

 

[DU]

thomas wrote




Well, you could use frames of course but the advantages are too great in
most cases.
Vertical scrolling can be prevented with a flexible design (measures of
elements in % instead of px)
When you use a CSS box with overflow: auto and height: 80% (or another
percentage) that has its own scroll bars when necessary. The horizontal bar
of the main window can be further suppressed (IE) with:
body {
margin: 0;
font-family: sans-serif;
height: 100%;
overflow: hidden;
overflow-y: hidden;}

Nico

You're still not neutralizing the overflow:scroll and overflow-y:scroll
browser default declarations on the root element. So, your page will
still have a vertical scrollbar in standards compliant rendering mode.
Tested and verified on MSIE 6 SP2.

I then wrote an user stylesheet and neutralized (!important) each of
your css declarations: so, MSIE 6 is compliant with CSS2 here and
pro-accessibility.

What many people often do not know is that they simply need to take into
consideration the 1px border around the root element and the
{margin:15px 10px;} for the body element. These are the elements they
often do not see that cause the horizontal scrollbar to mysteriously
surface.

DU
--
Javascript and Browser bugs:
http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunclear/
- Resources, help and tips for Netscape 7.x users and Composer
- Interactive demos on Popup windows, music (audio/midi) in Netscape 7.x
http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunclear/Netscape7/Netscape7Section.html

 

[Sid Ismail]

: Dear all,
:
: I write a html which can display info. scrolling automatically. Therefore, I
: want to remove both the horizontal and vertical scrollbars. Please tell me
: such html tag, many thanks.


Reduce your page to a 4-letter word, and use a small font-size.

Sid

 

[Nico Schuyt]

^^^^^^^^^^


Falling asleep, Nico?

Arrrgh, I shouldn't write advices a few minutes before an important
appointment :-(
Nico

 

[Nico Schuyt]

You're still not neutralizing the overflow:scroll and
overflow-y:scroll browser default declarations on the root element.
So, your page will still have a vertical scrollbar in standards
compliant rendering mode. Tested and verified on MSIE 6 SP2.

Well, http://www.nicoschuyt.nl/test/noscroll.htm does the job (at least in
IE5.5 and Mozilla 1)

I then wrote an user stylesheet and neutralized (!important) each of
your css declarations:

What exactly do you mean by that?

so, MSIE 6 is compliant with CSS2 here and
pro-accessibility.

Regards, Nico

 

[rf]

What exactly do you mean by that?

Nico, a user stylesheet takes precedence over an author stylesheet. An
author may choose to use !important in a stylesheet rule to attempt to
override the users stylesheet. The user then use !important to, yet again,
override this. The user, in the end, rules[sic].

Check the specs

Cheers
Richard.

 

[Steve Pugh]

a user stylesheet takes precedence over an author stylesheet.

No it doesn't.

Under CSS2 (and all other factors being equal) the order of precedence
is
user !important
author !important
author style sheet
user style sheet
browser defaults

Under CSS1 the two important rules were the other way round, but this
was open to abuse by authors and so was changed.

Author !important rules are now pointless with respect to the
user/author interaction, but can be used to over rule ordinary author
rules. This is useful if you are using @import which must come at the
the start of the stylesheet and want to set something there that will
over ride a normal rule specified later.

Steve

 

[rf]

No it doesn't.

<stands corrected>

Cheers
Richard.

 

[Nico Schuyt]

Check the specs

Sigh ..... Second mistake of me today. I'm off
Nico

 

[kchayka]

Well, http://www.nicoschuyt.nl/test/noscroll.htm does the job (at least in
IE5.5 and Mozilla 1)

Be it known that scrolling divs like this are not very accessible to
keyboard navigation. They generally suck from a usability standpoint.

 

[DU]

Visit this page with MSIE 6 for Windows:

http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunclear/HTMLJavascriptCSS/BrowsersDefaultValues.html

Well, http://www.nicoschuyt.nl/test/noscroll.htm does the job (at least in
IE5.5 and Mozilla 1)

Edit your userContent.css file in this manner:

html {overflow:auto !important; border:2px solid blue;}
body {overflow:auto !important; margin:16px !important; height:auto
!important; border:2px solid red !important;}

and then leave your author stylesheet as it is.

What exactly do you mean by that?




Regards, Nico

"When the viewport is smaller than the document's initial containing
block, the
user agent should offer a scrolling mechanism."
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visuren.html#q2
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visuren.html#q2

6.4.2 !important rules
[an "!important" declaration (the keywords "!" and "important" follow
the declaration) takes precedence over a normal declaration. Both author
and user style sheets may contain "!important" declarations, and user
"!important" rules override author "!important" rules. (...) In CSS1,
author "!important" rules took precedence over user "!important" rules.]
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/cascade.html#important-rules

DU
--
Javascript and Browser bugs:
http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunclear/
- Resources, help and tips for Netscape 7.x users and Composer
- Interactive demos on Popup windows, music (audio/midi) in Netscape 7.x
http://www10.brinkster.com/doctorunclear/Netscape7/Netscape7Section.html

 

[Nico Schuyt]

<Lots of information>

Seems like I have to do some homework.
Thanks!
Nico