how to turn off meta-refresh ?

Discussion in 'Javascript' started by dan baker, Oct 14, 2003.

  1. dan baker

    dan baker Guest

    I have a page that gets loaded with a meta-refresh hardcoded so that a
    few things on the page get updated. its kind of a fake chat board.
    anyway, what I need to do is turn off the meta-refresh once someone
    clicks in a <textarea> to enter their input; otherwise the refresh
    catches them in the middle and messes up the focus.

    I need a way to turn off the meta-refresh, or to force the
    cursor/focus to stay in the message input box once they click in it
    and start typing.

    I've tried:
    <p class=small>Enter your new message:
    <br><textarea NAME=NewMsg rows=2 cols=60 wrap=virtual
    onClick="window.location.reload(false);"></textarea>
    <br><input TYPE=submit value="Post Your Message" >

    but this actually forces a refresh onClick ?!

    dan
     
    dan baker, Oct 14, 2003
    #1
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  2. dan baker

    Lee Guest

    dan baker said:
    >
    >I have a page that gets loaded with a meta-refresh hardcoded so that a
    >few things on the page get updated. its kind of a fake chat board.
    >anyway, what I need to do is turn off the meta-refresh once someone
    >clicks in a <textarea> to enter their input; otherwise the refresh
    >catches them in the middle and messes up the focus.
    >
    >I need a way to turn off the meta-refresh, or to force the
    >cursor/focus to stay in the message input box once they click in it
    >and start typing.
    >
    >I've tried:
    > <p class=small>Enter your new message:
    > <br><textarea NAME=NewMsg rows=2 cols=60 wrap=virtual
    > onClick="window.location.reload(false);"></textarea>
    > <br><input TYPE=submit value="Post Your Message" >
    >
    >but this actually forces a refresh onClick ?!


    That's right. The "reload()" method does cause the window to
    reload immediately. The "false" argument simply means that you
    don't want to force a new download if the page is already in
    your cache.

    Guessing won't get you very far. Find a book or some of the
    on-line resources listed in the FAQ.

    I don't believe there is any way in JavaScript to disable the
    REFRESH directive. Since your page seems to rely on Javascript,
    anyway, you would be better off not using the HTTP REFRESH
    directive, but using JavaScript to refresh the page periodically.

    Look into setInterval(), clearInterval(), and, of course,
    location.reload().
     
    Lee, Oct 14, 2003
    #2
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  3. dan baker wrote:

    > [...]
    > anyway, what I need to do is turn off the meta-refresh once someone
    > clicks in a <textarea> to enter their input; [...]


    You cannot cancel what has been parsed before, but you can cancel what
    you have set before with JavaScript, so change the meta-refresh into a
    window.setTimeout(...) call and cancel the timeout when necessary:

    if (window.setTimeout)
    var iTimeout =
    window.setTimeout('if (location.reload) location.reload();', 42);
    ....
    <... onclick="if (window.clearTimeout) window.clearTimeout(iTimeout) // one
    line recommended">...</...>

    > I've tried:
    > <p class=small>Enter your new message:
    > <br><textarea NAME=NewMsg rows=2 cols=60 wrap=virtual
    > onClick="window.location.reload(false);"></textarea>
    > <br><input TYPE=submit value="Post Your Message" >
    >
    > but this actually forces a refresh onClick ?!


    BAD. Broken as designed. See
    http://devedge.netscape.com/library/manuals/2000/javascript/1.3/reference/location.html#1194198


    PointedEars
     
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn, Oct 14, 2003
    #3
  4. dan baker

    dan baker Guest

    (dan baker) wrote in message news:<>...
    > I have a page that gets loaded with a meta-refresh hardcoded so that a
    > few things on the page get updated. its kind of a fake chat board.
    > anyway, what I need to do is turn off the meta-refresh once someone
    > clicks in a <textarea> to enter their input; otherwise the refresh
    > catches them in the middle and messes up the focus.
    > --------------------


    thanks for the help people... I did more reading and found an even
    slicker way to do it with setInterval(). The basic sticking point that
    you solved for me was that the refresh had to be started with
    javascript rather than coming in hardcoded. Anyway, I thought I would
    post the snippet in case someone else needs it:

    <SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript1.1">
    <!-- hide script from old browsers...

    // always start auto-refresh onLoad
    var RefreshID = setInterval("window.location.reload()",10000);

    function StopRefresh(){
    clearInterval(RefreshID);
    }

    function RestartRefresh(){
    RefreshID = setInterval("window.location.reload()",10000);
    }

    // -->
    </SCRIPT>

    <td>
    <a name=bottom></a>
    <textarea NAME=NewMsg rows=2 cols=60 wrap=virtual
    onFocus="StopRefresh();return true;"></textarea>
    <br><input TYPE=submit value="Post Your Message" >
    </td>


    thanks again.... d
     
    dan baker, Oct 15, 2003
    #4
  5. dan baker wrote:

    > (dan baker) wrote in message
    > news:<>...


    Please shorten this to an attribution _line_.

    > <SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript1.1">


    That's invalid HTML, AFAIK only IE for Windows will accept the code. The
    `script' element requires a `type' attribute to define the MIME type of
    the code. And the `language' attribute is deprecated. If you use it for
    backwards compatibility with older user agents, do not specify the version.

    > <!-- hide script from old browsers...
    >
    > // always start auto-refresh onLoad
    > var RefreshID = setInterval("window.location.reload()",10000);
    >
    > function StopRefresh(){
    > clearInterval(RefreshID);
    > }
    >
    > function RestartRefresh(){
    > RefreshID = setInterval("window.location.reload()",10000);
    > }
    >
    > // -->
    > </SCRIPT>
    >
    > [...]
    > <textarea NAME=NewMsg rows=2 cols=60 wrap=virtual
    > onFocus="StopRefresh();return true;"></textarea>
    > [...]


    I do not see the point of defining an interval (a *self-repeating* action)
    here. A timeout that is cleared when focusing the `textarea' element (and
    reset on blur, if you like it) should suffice and is more compatible because
    it is supported since JavaScript 1.0, while window.setInterval(...) requires
    JavaScript 1.2 support. (I'm aware that recent UAs support at least JS 1.2.)

    Also I do not understand why you are defining the global variable at first
    (and *before* the document is loaded). To restart the refresh interval
    (better: timeout; see above) you define a function that redefines that
    variable, why don't you call the function onload? That would simplify
    programming and maintenance.

    It is good style to reference properties by their object, even if it is not
    required with `window', and it is also good style to check properties for
    existence before accessing them.

    Summary:

    <head>
    ...
    <script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript">
    <!--
    function stopRefresh()
    {
    if (window.myRefresh /* global variables are properties of the
    container object; no property, no
    clearing necessary */
    && window.clearTimeout)
    window.clearTimeout(myRefresh);
    }

    function startRefresh()
    {
    if (window.setTimeout && window.location && window.location.reload)
    myRefresh = window.setTimeout("window.location.reload()", 10000);
    }
    //-->
    </script>
    ...
    </head>

    <body>
    <form>
    ...
    <textarea name="NewMsg" rows="2" cols="60" wrap="virtual"
    onfocus="stopRefresh();" onblur="startRefresh();"></textarea>
    ...
    </form>
    <script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript">
    <!--
    /*
    * Timeout should start when the document has been completely loaded,
    * but the `onload' event handler is not supported by all UAs, so we
    * place the script at the end of the `body' element.
    */
    startRefresh();
    //-->
    </script>
    </body>


    PointedEars
     
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn, Oct 16, 2003
    #5
  6. dan baker

    Jim Ley Guest

    On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:48:28 +0200, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
    <> wrote:

    >dan baker wrote:
    >> <SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript1.1">

    >
    >That's invalid HTML, AFAIK only IE for Windows will accept the code.


    No, the vast majority of browsers will, in fact I don't know of any
    which won't (either taking it as their default type or understanding
    the language attribute) It's not even an IE invention, so I'm not
    sure where you got the idea.

    > The
    >`script' element requires a `type' attribute to define the MIME type of
    >the code. And the `language' attribute is deprecated. If you use it for
    >backwards compatibility with older user agents, do not specify the version.


    There's no reason to include it for anyone, you don't get any extra
    compatibility with older browsers, other than in IE 4 in a particular
    perverse scenario which I don't believe exists.

    > while window.setInterval(...) requires
    >JavaScript 1.2 support. (I'm aware that recent UAs support at least JS 1.2.)


    setInterval has nothing to do with the javascript level, it's a DOM
    object, although in effect "all" UA's less than 5 years old support
    it.

    > if (window.myRefresh /* global variables are properties of the
    > container object; no property, no
    > clearing necessary */


    There's no requirement that variables be part of a global object
    called window, the global object could be called fred, the only UA's I
    know which do this are not HTML ones, but I doubt their unique, I also
    know of UA's which don't put their global variable as part of the
    window object and the above check would fail - I wouldn't recommend
    doing it)

    > * Timeout should start when the document has been completely loaded,
    > * but the `onload' event handler is not supported by all UAs, so we
    > * place the script at the end of the `body' element.


    Please name such a UA!

    Jim.
    --
    comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/
     
    Jim Ley, Oct 16, 2003
    #6
  7. (Jim Ley) writes:

    > setInterval has nothing to do with the javascript level, it's a DOM
    > object, although in effect "all" UA's less than 5 years old support
    > it.


    Actually, it does. Javascript is a product of Netscape Corp. which is
    used in its browsers. Other browsers have also implemented similar
    languages under similar names, but the definition of Javascript v1.2
    is ... hmm, unavailable. However, they do have 1.3 online, and as part
    of that specification, they define the window object:
    <URL:http://devedge.netscape.com/library/manuals/2000/javascript/1.3/reference/window.html>

    This (Javascript 1.3) specification states that the object "window"
    has the method "setInterval". I.e., "setInterval" is part of
    Javascript 1.3.

    It makes no sense to talk about Javascript levels apart from
    Netscape's specifications. There are similar specifications of
    different versions of JScript.

    > I also know of UA's which don't put their global variable as part of
    > the window object and the above check would fail - I wouldn't
    > recommend doing it)


    Do you know of *browsers* that don't have a global variable called
    "window" that points to the global object (and which support
    ECMAScript-like scripting at all)?

    I believe that the current draft of the next version of SVG DOM
    includes references to the object called "window" with a "setInterval"
    method. Can't find a single reference to it right now, though.

    What is the UA that has a window object separate from the global object?

    /L
    --
    Lasse Reichstein Nielsen -
    Art D'HTML: <URL:http://www.infimum.dk/HTML/randomArtSplit.html>
    'Faith without judgement merely degrades the spirit divine.'
     
    Lasse Reichstein Nielsen, Oct 16, 2003
    #7
  8. dan baker

    Jim Ley Guest

    On 16 Oct 2003 14:08:36 +0200, Lasse Reichstein Nielsen
    <> wrote:

    > (Jim Ley) writes:
    >
    >> setInterval has nothing to do with the javascript level, it's a DOM
    >> object, although in effect "all" UA's less than 5 years old support
    >> it.

    >
    >Actually, it does. Javascript is a product of Netscape Corp. which is
    >used in its browsers.


    No worries, we can see it's gone in JavaScript 1.5 then, so therefore
    Mozilla browser's don't support setInterval? That's good to know.

    However, I believe you're falling into the trap of confusing the
    DOM/script documentation from Netscape which has always confused the
    two, that's just a weakness of the documentation.

    >> I also know of UA's which don't put their global variable as part of
    >> the window object and the above check would fail - I wouldn't
    >> recommend doing it)

    >
    >Do you know of *browsers* that don't have a global variable called
    >"window" that points to the global object (and which support
    >ECMAScript-like scripting at all)?


    Yes, I've discussed it before, CSV is the most recent one, it's still
    a a browser, seen as it's in no standard that the global object is
    called window, it seems rather silly to do it such.

    >What is the UA that has a window object separate
    >from the global object?


    ASV3 and 6 and CSV.

    Jim.
    --
    comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/
     
    Jim Ley, Oct 16, 2003
    #8
  9. (Jim Ley) writes:

    > No worries, we can see it's gone in JavaScript 1.5 then, so therefore
    > Mozilla browser's don't support setInterval? That's good to know.


    > However, I believe you're falling into the trap of confusing the
    > DOM/script documentation from Netscape which has always confused the
    > two, that's just a weakness of the documentation.


    I guess it is a matter of wording.
    The window object isn't in the Javascript 1.5 *Core* Language.
    But, as you say, they are not very explicit about the difference
    between the core language and the language included in the browser,
    calling both "Javascript".

    I will maintain that javascript 1.2 was not defined in terms of Core
    language and browser/client extensions, but was seen as a whole.

    Terminology has changed since then, with the introduction of the
    concept of a DOM. What-is-now-DOM methods such as setInterval, Image,
    Option, etc. were then just part of Javascript 1.2.

    That means that not only are there changes to the language, there are
    also changes to how we think about it. Having two different
    perspectives at the same time is bound to give problems. :)

    > Yes, I've discussed it before, CSV is the most recent one, it's still
    > a a browser, seen as it's in no standard that the global object is
    > called window, it seems rather silly to do it such.


    I can't find this CSV browser through Google (the most used menaing of
    CSV seems to be Comma Separated Values). Even checked all you wrote
    about it in this group, but no explaition of CSV except Comma
    Separated List..

    > ASV3 and 6 and CSV.


    .... and ASV seems to mean Action Script Viewer (apparently for
    Shockwave). Ah, there. It is also Adobe SVG Viewer. That would make
    CSV ... Corel SVG Viewer? :)

    I'll look into them.
    /L
    --
    Lasse Reichstein Nielsen -
    Art D'HTML: <URL:http://www.infimum.dk/HTML/randomArtSplit.html>
    'Faith without judgement merely degrades the spirit divine.'
     
    Lasse Reichstein Nielsen, Oct 16, 2003
    #9
  10. dan baker

    Jim Ley Guest

    On 16 Oct 2003 15:01:34 +0200, Lasse Reichstein Nielsen
    <> wrote:

    >I will maintain that javascript 1.2 was not defined in terms of Core
    >language and browser/client extensions, but was seen as a whole.


    We moaning about that though in this list even then... Fortunately
    it's not much better.
    >> ASV3 and 6 and CSV.

    >
    >... and ASV seems to mean Action Script Viewer (apparently for
    >Shockwave). Ah, there. It is also Adobe SVG Viewer. That would make
    >CSV ... Corel SVG Viewer? :)


    The last two yes. ASV6 even renders some HTML.

    Jim.
    --
    comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/
     
    Jim Ley, Oct 16, 2003
    #10
  11. dan baker

    Jim Ley Guest

    On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:33:16 GMT, (Jim Ley) wrote:

    >On 16 Oct 2003 15:01:34 +0200, Lasse Reichstein Nielsen
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>I will maintain that javascript 1.2 was not defined in terms of Core
    >>language and browser/client extensions, but was seen as a whole.

    >
    >We moaning about that though in this list even then... Fortunately
    >it's not much better.


    Damn typo's NOW much better.

    Jim.
    --
    comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/
     
    Jim Ley, Oct 16, 2003
    #11
  12. JRS: In article <bmkm96$n8pb7$-berlin.de>, seen in
    news:comp.lang.javascript, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
    <> posted at Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:48:28 :-
    >dan baker wrote:
    >
    >> (dan baker) wrote in message
    >> news:<>...

    >
    >Please shorten this to an attribution _line_.


    You are being silly, IMHO, unless you can provide a reference to a
    Usenet Standard that calls for a single line.

    --
    © John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v4.00 MIME ©
    Web <URL:http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/tsfaq.html> -> Timo Salmi: Usenet Q&A.
    Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/news-use.htm> : about usage of News.
    No Encoding. Quotes before replies. Snip well. Write clearly. Don't Mail News.
     
    Dr John Stockton, Oct 16, 2003
    #12
  13. dan baker

    dan baker Guest

    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <> wrote in message news:
    > It is good style to reference properties by their object, even if it is not
    > required with `window', and it is also good style to check properties for
    > existence before accessing them.
    >
    > Summary:
    > .................. code


    ----------------------

    thanks for the example. I'm not very experienced with javascript, so
    examples and explainations really help. ;)

    d
     
    dan baker, Oct 16, 2003
    #13
  14. [OT] Attribution line (was: how to turn off meta-refresh ?)

    Dr John Stockton wrote:

    > JRS: In article <bmkm96$n8pb7$-berlin.de>, seen in
    > news:comp.lang.javascript, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
    > <> posted at Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:48:28 :-
    >>dan baker wrote:
    >>
    >>> (dan baker) wrote in message
    >>> news:<>...

    >>
    >>Please shorten this to an attribution _line_.

    >
    > You are being silly, IMHO, unless you can provide a reference to a
    > Usenet Standard that calls for a single line.


    Well, it is called attribution _line_ (and not attribution novel) for the
    reason that it should only provide information who wrote the quoted text,
    especially when there is more than one quoting level. The other information
    (like message ID, newsgroup(s) name, the sender's address, posting date and
    time) can be easily retrieved via and from the headers of the postings by
    people who are interested in it. On the other hand, this overhead is fitted
    to make a posting less readable. (The newsgroup name and message ID in this
    e-mail is only included to help you find the posting I am referring to,
    because this is a different medium and not all e-mail user agents support
    showing/clicking headers like `References' or `In-Reply-To'.)

    I need not to provide a reference to a Usenet standard that recommends
    this (although there may be one) because common sense should be enough to
    recognize it, and if you call me silly for merely *asking* for a readable
    posting, that is *your* problem.


    Please do note that I did not want to discuss there here off-topic in
    the first place, but you leave me no choice:

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Your message could not be delivered to the following recipients




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    To: Dr John Stockton <>
    Subject: Re: how to turn off meta-refresh ?
    References: <>
    <>
    <bmkm96$n8pb7$-berlin.de>
    <aUg6ZWRk$pj$>
    In-Reply-To: <aUg6ZWRk$pj$>
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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    ----------------------------------------------------------------------


    And my second (and final) attempt resulted in:

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Your message could not be delivered to the following recipients




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    Message-ID: <>
    Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:25:28 +0200
    From: "Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn" <>
    Reply-To: "Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn" <>
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    To: Dr John Stockton <>
    Subject: Re: how to turn off meta-refresh ?
    References: <>
    <>
    <bmkm96$n8pb7$-berlin.de>
    <aUg6ZWRk$pj$>
    In-Reply-To: <aUg6ZWRk$pj$>
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    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    You are in fact violating RFCs 1036, 1855 and 2822.

    I will be glad if you send me an e-mail and allow me to
    provide further explanation of the problems.

    Therefore: F'up2 poster, my Reply-To address is (of course)
    valid and read regularly.


    PointedEars
     
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn, Oct 18, 2003
    #14
  15. Attribution line

    JRS: In article <>, seen in
    news:comp.lang.javascript, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
    <> posted at Sat, 18 Oct 2003 02:13:58 :-
    >Dr John Stockton wrote:
    >
    >> JRS: In article <bmkm96$n8pb7$-berlin.de>, seen in
    >> news:comp.lang.javascript, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
    >> <> posted at Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:48:28 :-
    >>>dan baker wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> (dan baker) wrote in message
    >>>> news:<>...
    >>>
    >>>Please shorten this to an attribution _line_.

    >>
    >> You are being silly, IMHO, unless you can provide a reference to a
    >> Usenet Standard that calls for a single line.

    >
    >Well, it is called attribution _line_ (and not attribution novel) for the
    >reason that it should only provide information who wrote the quoted text,
    >especially when there is more than one quoting level. The other information
    >(like message ID, newsgroup(s) name, the sender's address, posting date and
    >time) can be easily retrieved via and from the headers of the postings by
    >people who are interested in it.


    Evidently you do not understand the full variety of circumstances under
    which someone who has a copy of an article can make use of an
    informative attribution. Be aware, for example, that someone who has
    saved a copy of an article which *quotes* an attribution line has not
    saved the header of the attributing article.

    Evidently you are unable to provide a reference to a Usenet Standard
    calling for single-line attributions.


    >Please do note that I did not want to discuss there here off-topic in
    >the first place, but you leave me no choice:


    Since you make inappropriate complaint about newsgroup postings, it is
    in the newsgroup that you must be shown to be incapable of justifying
    your unfounded assertion.

    --
    © John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v4.00 MIME ©
    Web <URL:http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/tsfaq.html> -> Timo Salmi: Usenet Q&A.
    Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/news-use.htm> : about usage of News.
    No Encoding. Quotes before replies. Snip well. Write clearly. Don't Mail News.
     
    Dr John Stockton, Oct 18, 2003
    #15
  16. Re: [OT] Attribution line

    Dr John Stockton wrote:

    > [...]
    > Evidently you do not understand the full variety of circumstances under
    > which someone who has a copy of an article can make use of an
    > informative attribution. Be aware, for example, that someone who has
    > saved a copy of an article which *quotes* an attribution line has not
    > saved the header of the attributing article.


    Evidently you do not understand what headers are and what their function
    is. Most news clients are saving headers with articles (see the .eml format
    for example) and one can include the information *when* *required*.

    Evidently you do not know of news archives like Google Groups,
    where one can (in most cases) re-read whole discussions when a
    single message ID or even a keyword has been provided.

    > Evidently you are unable to provide a reference to a Usenet Standard
    > calling for single-line attributions.


    Evidently you do not understand what a readable posting is, and
    that you write for your readers, not for posing yourselves.

    >>Please do note that I did not want to discuss there here off-topic in
    >>the first place, but you leave me no choice:

    >
    > Since you make inappropriate complaint about newsgroup postings, it is

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    > in the newsgroup that you must be shown to be incapable of justifying
    > your unfounded assertion.


    It was merely a plea along with an on-topic and (hopefully) a helpful
    answer. In contrast, your answers and the subject of my plea are completely
    off-topic here.

    And evidently you do not even think about paying respect to core Internet
    and Usenet standards, namely not using a valid e-mail address (as stated
    by RFCs 1036 and 2822), not having installed the `postmaster' account for
    your(?) sub-level domain (as stated by RFC 1173), and not obeying the core
    rules of Netiquette (RFC 1855), so I do not see the point of discussing
    the justification of (my) statements by those standards with you.


    EOD

    F'up2 PointedEars (again)
     
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn, Oct 19, 2003
    #16
  17. Jim Ley wrote:

    > [...] Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn [...] wrote:
    >>dan baker wrote:
    >>> <SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript1.1">

    >>
    >>That's invalid HTML, AFAIK only IE for Windows will accept the code.

    >
    > No, the vast majority of browsers will,


    The vast majority of browser is not all browsers.
    Besides, there are user agents other than browsers.

    > in fact I don't know of any which won't (either taking it as their
    > default type or understanding the language attribute)
    > It's not even an IE invention, so I'm not sure where you got the idea.


    ,--------<http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/scripts.html#h-18.2.1>--------
    | language = cdata [CI]
    | Deprecated. This attribute specifies the scripting language of the
    | contents of this element. Its value is an identifier for the language,
    | but since these identifiers are not standard, this attribute has been
    | deprecated in favor of type.

    >> The `script' element requires a `type' attribute to define the MIME type
    >> of the code. And the `language' attribute is deprecated. If you use it for
    >> backwards compatibility with older user agents, do not specify the version.

    >
    > There's no reason to include it for anyone,


    The reason is that you create valid HTML which causes web pages to stay
    functional for the foreseeable future. The trend is that user agents
    become more and more standards compliant, so authors are wise to obey
    the standards.

    >> while window.setInterval(...) requires
    >> JavaScript 1.2 support. (I'm aware that recent UAs support at least JS 1.2.)

    >
    > setInterval has nothing to do with the javascript level,


    s/level/version/

    > it's a DOM object, although in effect "all" UA's less than 5 years
    > old support it.


    Before the W3C-DOM (October 1998) there was no idea of a DOM, and what we
    call host objects of a DOM now were previously part of the core language.

    http://devedge.netscape.com/library/manuals/2000/javascript/1.3/reference/window.html#1203669

    (Find the setTimeout(...) method originating from JavaScript 1.0 in the
    same document.)

    The W3C-DOM Level 2 Candidate Recommendation called that part, supported
    by Netscape Navigator 3.0 and Internet Explorer 3.0, "DOM Level 0":

    http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/CR-DOM-Level-2-19991210/glossary.html

    Namely Netscape Navigator up to version 4.x implemented the next versions
    of JavaScript:

    http://devedge.netscape.com/library/manuals/2000/javascript/1.3/reference/preface.html#1003267

    With Mozilla/5.0 implementing JavaScript 1.5 (which is based upon
    ECMAScript Edition 3), those UA dependent parts have been moved from
    the Core Reference to the Gecko DOM Reference:

    http://mozilla.org/docs/dom/domref/

    >> if (window.myRefresh /* global variables are properties of the
    >> container object; no property, no
    >> clearing necessary */

    >
    > There's no requirement that variables be part of a global object
    > called window, [...] I also know of UA's which don't put their
    > global variable as part of the window object and the above check
    > would fail - I wouldn't recommend doing it)


    You are right, the proper way is

    window.myrefresh = window.setTimeout(...);

    adding explicitely a property to the `window' object. Then the property
    can be checked for existence so that the timeout is only cleared if one
    has been set before.

    >> * Timeout should start when the document has been completely loaded,
    >> * but the `onload' event handler is not supported by all UAs, so we
    >> * place the script at the end of the `body' element.

    >
    > Please name such a UA!


    The `onload' attribute was introduced in HTML 4.01, so
    all user agents supporting only HTML 3.2 will ignore it.


    PointedEars
     
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn, Oct 19, 2003
    #17
  18. dan baker

    Jim Ley Guest

    On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:52:27 +0200, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
    <> wrote:

    >Jim Ley wrote:
    >
    >> [...] Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn [...] wrote:
    >>>dan baker wrote:
    >>>> <SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript1.1">
    >>>
    >>>That's invalid HTML, AFAIK only IE for Windows will accept the code.

    >>
    >> No, the vast majority of browsers will,

    >
    >The vast majority of browser is not all browsers.
    >Besides, there are user agents other than browsers.


    Carry on, tell us one that fail... It's not even invalid HTML.

    >> in fact I don't know of any which won't (either taking it as their
    >> default type or understanding the language attribute)
    >> It's not even an IE invention, so I'm not sure where you got the idea.

    >
    >,--------<http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/scripts.html#h-18.2.1>--------
    >| language = cdata [CI]
    >| Deprecated.


    Yes, _deprecated_ not non-standard, it will only not work at all in
    non html user agents such as X-Smiles or SVG UA's. Of course then it
    would be ignored.

    >> it's a DOM object, although in effect "all" UA's less than 5 years
    >> old support it.

    >
    >Before the W3C-DOM (October 1998) there was no idea of a DOM, and what we
    >call host objects of a DOM now were previously part of the core language.


    No they weren't Microsoft has always considered them distinct, it was
    only Netscape documentation that didn't. If you look at the CLJ FAQ
    from July 1998, you'll see that there's a question "What is the DOM"
    if it didn't exist until October, they're pretty f'ing prescient.

    >> There's no requirement that variables be part of a global object
    >> called window, [...] I also know of UA's which don't put their
    >> global variable as part of the window object and the above check
    >> would fail - I wouldn't recommend doing it)

    >
    >You are right, the proper way is
    >
    > window.myrefresh = window.setTimeout(...);


    No, that is not correct, for the same reasons I gave before (window
    does not _have_ to be the global object name) however the above is
    not equivalent to the previous code (the setTimeout executed
    immediately and window.myrefresh containing the returned object.
    Unlikely what you want.

    >> Please name such a UA!

    >
    >The `onload' attribute was introduced in HTML 4.01, so
    >all user agents supporting only HTML 3.2 will ignore it.


    No, Please name such a UA, There are no user agents supporting only
    HTML 3.2.

    Jim.
    --
    comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/
     
    Jim Ley, Oct 19, 2003
    #18
  19. "Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >Jim Ley wrote:
    >> [...] Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn [...] wrote:
    >>>dan baker wrote:
    >>>><SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript1.1">
    >>>
    >>>That's invalid HTML, AFAIK only IE for Windows will accept
    >>>the code.


    >> No, the vast majority of browsers will,

    >
    >The vast majority of browser is not all browsers.
    >Besides, there are user agents other than browsers.
    >
    >>in fact I don't know of any which won't (either taking it as their
    >>default type or understanding the language attribute)
    >>It's not even an IE invention, so I'm not sure where you got
    >>the idea.


    As I recall IE is the browser least tolerant of specified language
    attributes as - language=JavaScript1.3 - (or greater) will not be loaded
    by IE 5.0 (at least), while JScript 5+ actually implements most of the
    JavaScript 1.4/5 features.

    >,----<http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/scripts.html#h-18.2.1>-----
    >| language = cdata [CI]
    >| Deprecated. ...


    Deprecated? So strictly it is only invalid HTML 4 Strict but still valid
    (if not recommended) in looser DTDs.

    >>>The `script' element requires a `type' attribute to define the
    >>>MIME type of the code. And the `language' attribute is deprecated.
    >>>If you use it for backwards compatibility with older user agents,
    >>>do not specify the version.


    >>There's no reason to include it for anyone,

    >
    >The reason is that you create valid HTML which causes web pages to stay
    >functional for the foreseeable future. The trend is that user agents
    >become more and more standards compliant, so authors are wise to obey
    >the standards.


    I read Jim as saying that there is never a reason for using the language
    attribute (and by extension a language version) so his comment has no
    baring on the creation of valid Strict HTML 4.

    <snip>
    >>> if (window.myRefresh /* global variables are properties of the
    >>> container object; no property, no
    >>> clearing necessary */

    >>
    >>There's no requirement that variables be part of a global object
    >>called window, [...] I also know of UA's which don't put their
    >>global variable as part of the window object and the above check
    >>would fail - I wouldn't recommend doing it)

    >
    >You are right, the proper way is
    >
    > window.myrefresh = window.setTimeout(...);


    I don't see the point of using references relative to - window - in this
    context. The interpreter is going to have to resolve the references to -
    window - by traversing the scope chain to the global object, which is
    exactly what it would have to do to resolve - myrefresh - or -
    setTimeout - if used in isolation. The difference seems just to be that
    with the - window - reference a second property look-up is needed on the
    object referenced by - window - (assuming the global window property
    exists in the environment). If the scope resolution is in question then
    that applies equally to - window - as it would for - setTimeout - and
    otherwise using - window - imposes a performance penalty without any
    reliability gain.

    >adding explicitely a property to the `window' object. Then the property
    >can be checked for existence so that the timeout is only cleared if one
    >has been set before.


    A type-converting-to-boolean test on an undeclared global identifier
    will produce errors where the same test on the property accessor of a
    non-existent global property will not, but typeof tests do not suffer
    the same problem so the property accessor syntax is not required when
    testing global properties/variables (just potentially useful under some
    circumstances).
    <snip>

    Richard.
     
    Richard Cornford, Oct 19, 2003
    #19
  20. (Jim Ley) writes:

    > >>>> <SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript1.1">

    ....
    > It's not even invalid HTML.


    But it is invalid HTML *4*, since the required attribute "type" is
    omitted. I can't find a reference to the language attribute in HTML
    3.2 at all.

    > >The `onload' attribute was introduced in HTML 4.01, so
    > >all user agents supporting only HTML 3.2 will ignore it.

    >
    > No, Please name such a UA, There are no user agents supporting only
    > HTML 3.2.


    I would have thought Netscape 2 or Opera 4 would be worth a try, but both
    support the body onload attribute.

    /L
    --
    Lasse Reichstein Nielsen -
    Art D'HTML: <URL:http://www.infimum.dk/HTML/randomArtSplit.html>
    'Faith without judgement merely degrades the spirit divine.'
     
    Lasse Reichstein Nielsen, Oct 19, 2003
    #20
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