I thought of an analogy...

  • Thread starter Weyoun the Dancing Borg
  • Start date
W

Weyoun the Dancing Borg

HTML writers are Car Mechanics.

You see, the Information Super Highway was a term coined in the late 90s
to describe the Internet. It was going to be BIG. It was going to solve
world hunger. It was going to stop all future wars. It was going to
become scientient. It was going to make you billions!

So every man and his dog joined this Internet thingy. Everyone wanted to
have their say. Everyone wanted to sell their product. Everyone wanted
to publish their works. Everyone wanted their own web page.

All those things depended on having a web page. You couldn't sell your
New Improved Shampoo bottle, because no one would know about it. You
have to announce these things you see. But how do you build one?

Mr 99%stereotype doesn't know. When you want to go across town, you
drive your car. When you want to write a letter, you use a word program.
When you want to make a picture, you use a paint program. When you want
to write an e-mail you use an e-mail program. So... you want to make a
web page... so... use a... web page program!!

Simple! That's how you use computers - you don't DO the hard work,
that's what they're for. You don't *build* the page, you draw it, you
write it. The program puts it on the Internet and voíla! Your own site
is now up and running.


That's how Mr 99%stereotype thinks. When people come here asking for
help, saying "learn HTML" instead of using a program, understand that
most of them are afriad of programming, don't know it exists, really
truely don't have the time etc, they don't want to be told something
that conflicts with their opinion. They ask a question, they want a nice
answer.

If you drive a car, do you know how it works? Could you build an engine
from scratch?


Could you do it with no instructions?



What if you did try it with no instructions. What would a mechanic say
if you went up to him and said you had no idea what you were doing, how
or why, but you need X done so Y will work?

Know what he'd say?


Read the Flipping Manual.




(ps I hope the tone of that semi-sarcastic "editoral" (hehe) had you
guessing which side I was on!)
 
A

Art Sackett

Weyoun the Dancing Borg said:
That's how Mr 99%stereotype thinks. When people come here asking for
help, saying "learn HTML" instead of using a program, understand that
most of them are afriad of programming, don't know it exists, really
truely don't have the time etc, they don't want to be told something
that conflicts with their opinion. They ask a question, they want a nice
answer.

Answer Number One: HTML is not a programming language.
If you drive a car, do you know how it works?

Yes, absolutely. And I know how to repair it, from front to rear,
including such esoteric crap as rebuilding an automatic transmission,
troubleshooting electrical problems, and fixing up holes in the
upholstery.
Could you build an engine from scratch?

Forging and/or machining the parts? No. Building one from a box of
parts, yes.
Could you do it with no instructions?

Probably. To do the job right, I'd want to have a copy of the factory
specs for clearances, torques, and such, but I wouldn't need the
step-by-step instructions in most cases.

So: HTML is not a programming language, and I'm a fairly competent guy.
Now that we've established these things: If someone wants to know how
to work Front Page, or Dreamweaver, or any other such horrid
contraption, there are dedicated support forums elsewhere. So... what's
your point, again? :)
 
W

Weyoun the Dancing Borg

Art said:
Answer Number One: HTML is not a programming language.

So... what's your point, again? :)

you snipped it. And mis-understood the rest.
 
J

Jeff Thies

If you drive a car, do you know how it works?
Yes, absolutely. And I know how to repair it, from front to rear,
including such esoteric crap as rebuilding an automatic transmission,
troubleshooting electrical problems, and fixing up holes in the
upholstery.

I'm pretty impressed by the upholstery repair! I've done the other stuff
from rebuilding alternators to motors and automatic transmissions.
Forging and/or machining the parts? No. Building one from a box of
parts, yes.




Probably. To do the job right, I'd want to have a copy of the factory
specs for clearances, torques, and such, but I wouldn't need the
step-by-step instructions in most cases.

I'd be inclined to agree with that. The "manual" tends to get in the way.

So far it appears that 100% of the responders of this thread also know
how to repair cars.

Frankly, if you can't tell a radiator from an alternator you probably
shouldn't be writing web pages either. That is the Dancing Borgs point,
isn't it? That being able to reason is important in writing web pages?

Jeff
 
M

Mark Parnell

Yes, absolutely. And I know how to repair it, from front to rear,
including such esoteric crap as rebuilding an automatic transmission,
troubleshooting electrical problems, and fixing up holes in the
upholstery.

I can change wiper blades...
 
M

Mark Parnell

Frankly, if you can't tell a radiator from an alternator you probably
shouldn't be writing web pages either.

:-( I'm useless when it comes to fixing cars. My brother's an apprentice
mechanic, does that count?
 
R

rf

Jeff Thies
So far it appears that 100% of the responders of this thread also know
how to repair cars.

Yep. Used to own a mini minor. Had to pull the gearbox down a number of
times. Manual? What manual? Oh I see what you mean. Yes, it *was* a manual
gearbox :)
Frankly, if you can't tell a radiator from an alternator you probably
shouldn't be writing web pages either. That is the Dancing Borgs point,
isn't it? That being able to reason is important in writing web pages?

Correct. If you write HTML pages you need to know HTML and you should know
an element from an attribute from a tag. OTHO if you wish to build
dreamweaver pages (and they are usually quite identifiable as that) then you
should know how to use dreamweaver, which is usually off topic here. The
dreamweaver group is over there --->
 
B

Blinky the Shark

Jeff said:
So far it appears that 100% of the responders of this thread also know
how to repair cars.

I rebuilt a Corvette engine once, from the crank out, and did a lot of
my own routine maintenance (brakes, carbs, a rear end, etc.) until I got
too old and lazy to screw with it.[1] :)
Frankly, if you can't tell a radiator from an alternator you probably
shouldn't be writing web pages either. That is the Dancing Borgs
point, isn't it? That being able to reason is important in writing web
pages?

I think there's some overlap there -- one who's likely to want to know
how A works and be able to deal with it himself is also likely (which is
not the same as a guarantee) to want to know how B works and be able to
deal with it himself.

I'd say, then, that the safer'n'stronger correlation than car-fixing
would be "if you tend to be *generally* interested in how stuff works,
you'll probably have better success in building other stuff, as well, in
general". That includes the cars/websites case, but isn't quite as strong
as "*shouldn't* [my emphasis] be writing web pages".

But, then, I drive a stick shift and don't have or desire power brakes
or power steering.[2] :)

[1]Just turned 57; not quite in the ground, yet.

[2]Although I do have one of those fancy electric starters.[3]

[3]For the car, I mean -- not for the 57-year-old body.
 
D

Dave Patton

Jeff Thies



Yep. Used to own a mini minor. Had to pull the gearbox down a number
of times. Manual? What manual? Oh I see what you mean. Yes, it *was* a
manual gearbox :)

I once had a Mini, purchased new(for $1995.00, Canadian dollars,
but that was when the Canadian dollar was worth more than the
US dollar).

Eventually, I "rebuilt" it, but to do so I literally took it
completely apart - every single bolt and nut on the body and
engine was undone, and every[1] part was individually set aside
and cleaned up or replaced and then the car was rebuilt.

[1]
OK, there was one 'part' that wasn't replaced, or really even
had any attention - the wiring harness that ran from the
engine compartment up through the driver's side pillar
next to the windshield.
 
D

dale austin

So far it appears that 100% of the responders of this thread also know
Not me. Lack of interest that surprises many of my friends who know that
I'm mechanically inclined in other ways. (see below)
I rebuilt a Corvette engine once, from the crank out, and did a lot of
my own routine maintenance (brakes, carbs, a rear end, etc.) until I got
too old and lazy to screw with it.[1] :)

My most significant soiree into engine mechanics was the task of
rebuilding/cleaning out the fuel injector system and fuel lines from the
tank to the head on a two cylinder volvo v-drive marine engine.

Um, the boat was in the water at the time. It was November. No manual,
no spare parts. Never seen one of these before. Oh, yeah, the only
access was achieved by squeezing myself into a cockpit locker somewhat
smaller than a coffin, and staying in there for four hours.

see:
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mrwizard/sail/nov97.html
I think there's some overlap there -- one who's likely to want to know
how A works and be able to deal with it himself is also likely (which is
not the same as a guarantee) to want to know how B works and be able to
deal with it himself.

Modern industrial society fosters what I've called "a cult of
helplessness." In part this is a bargain-we get the use of neat stuff
and the leisure to enjoy it in exchange for having to hire folks to make
it go. Most folks are quite satisfied with the bargain. The, what,
10-20% left get the added pleasure of finding things out for themselves.

The down side is that most folks don't know this. My analogy for how
most people deal with technology would be the auto pilot for a sailboat.
When you program and use it, you're not sailing, you're managing a tool.
This is not a new idea. Can't remember who first said it, but we've gone
from tool users to tool managers. Same is true for the WYSIWY(sorta)G
editors. You are one level further removed from the actual process. The
problem is we've generally forgotten that extra level exists and tend to
mistake our management for tool use.
I'd say, then, that the safer'n'stronger correlation than car-fixing
would be "if you tend to be *generally* interested in how stuff works,
you'll probably have better success in building other stuff, as well, in
general". That includes the cars/websites case, but isn't quite as strong
as "*shouldn't* [my emphasis] be writing web pages".

Here, here!

My .02, you'll probably be wanting change from it.

Dale
 
B

Blinky the Shark

dale said:
Modern industrial society fosters what I've called "a cult of
helplessness." In part this is a bargain-we get the use of neat stuff

I hadn't heard that term, before, but it certainly fits nicely with the
fact that some people project *pride* in Not Knowing Stuff. That
strikes me as the intellectual equivalent of the old goal of sun[tan]
avoidance as a class badge.
 
K

Karl Groves

Bill Clark said:

Repair 'em? More like build 'em!

70 Camaro: 350 with 11.25:1 compression, 305 duration cam w/ .525 lift, 64
CC camel-hump heads, roller valvetrain, Vertext magneto, Edelbrock intake &
carb puts out 480hp at the crank
http://www.karlcore.com/images/70camaro.jpg

1976 Corvette Stingray, all original 65,000 miles when I got it. All #s
matched
http://www.karlcore.com/images/76vette2.jpg

1977 Camaro Z-28. Again, all original, #s matching. What most people don't
realize is the 77 Z-28 is the most rare of Z-28s because they only made them
a half-year. This one had a 350/350 thanks to some engine mods I did , yet
still got 20mpg on the highway
http://www.karlcore.com/images/77z28.jpg

-Karl
 
D

dale austin

Blinky said:
dale austin wrote:

Modern industrial society fosters what I've called "a cult of
helplessness." In part this is a bargain-we get the use of neat stuff


I hadn't heard that term, before, but it certainly fits nicely with the
fact that some people project *pride* in Not Knowing Stuff. That
strikes me as the intellectual equivalent of the old goal of sun[tan]
avoidance as a class badge.

From Philip Greenspun, decsribing a paper in Behavior:


"When the nerd monkey was reintroduced to the society, the higher
ranking macaques stopped kicking him out of the way long enough for him
to complete operation of the machine and obtain food for the community.
I.e., society cooperated to create the conditions under which the nerd
could toil for them. However, the monkey who acquired these special
skills and provided for the society did not achieve any rise in his
dominance status. "

see:

http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/

Dale
 
B

Bill Clark

Karl said:
Repair 'em? More like build 'em!

[snip cool stuff]

Before we turn this into an aww thread is your email address valid?

I've got the best part of 50 years, off and on, experience building race
cars and customs both professionally and as a hobby... Could be an
interesting exchange <g>...
 
K

Karl Groves

Bill Clark said:
Karl said:
Repair 'em? More like build 'em!

[snip cool stuff]

Before we turn this into an aww thread is your email address valid?

Best way to contact me:
http://www.karlcore.com/contact.php
I've got the best part of 50 years, off and on, experience building race
cars and customs both professionally and as a hobby... Could be an
interesting exchange <g>...

Right now, I'm looking for a 62-67 Chevy II to throw a big block into.
I'm fiending for torque. Been doing small blocks too long.

-Karl
 

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