Interesting new development "in the matter of" Schildt

[spinoza1111]

How odd that you so aggressively profess ignorance of this, when
otherwise you assert familiarity with classic literature.

I guess Seebach was right, you really do just automatically choose the
opposite position of your enemies, regardless if it makes any sense,
in this case you are trying to distinguish yourself from Heathfield,
who you have abused for his religious beliefs.  


What you "meant" isn't what you said.

You may indeed be the first person to use that word in this newsgroup.
Well, big deal.
But more interesting, I tried to do some research on word use in
Usenet.

Though Google has truly fucked up its search interface to the point
one can hardly trust it, it did find in Aug 3 1992:



Now that must make you feel proud.  While bullschildt is forgotten
except by a few scholars, we're all familiar with Nilgewater after
over 20 years of hard trolling.

This is not the case. Schildt has published, successfully, several
books, including four editions of CTCR. We will NOT see another
edition of Heatfield's book on C. But every time Schildt gets a new
book on Amazon, it is spammed by cybernetic mobs that were activated
by Seebach's infantile tirade.

I know, by means which are not of your goddamn business, that Schildt
and his family have been seriously offended and wounded by this.

 

[Rob Kendrick]

I know, by means which are not of your goddamn business, that Schildt
and his family have been seriously offended and wounded by this.

Perhaps he shouldn't have churned out books with such broad and obvious
errors that lead the people who read them to be bad and puzzled
programmers, then?

Two of the worst professional programmers I know learnt C from Schildt.

B.

 

[Rob Kendrick]

I already told you the first time you used it that it was racist,
wanker. At that point you needed to stop since it would intimidate or
offend African Americans coming here to learn about C, you Limey son
of a bitch. You didn't.

Just a minute, "coon" is racist, but "limey" isn't? Or are you just
being ironic for comedic effect? What about "yank" ?

B.

 

[Colonel Harlan Sanders]

This is not the case. Schildt has published, successfully, several
books, including four editions of CTCR. We will NOT see another
edition of Heatfield's book on C. But every time Schildt gets a new
book on Amazon, it is spammed by cybernetic mobs that were activated
by Seebach's infantile tirade.

I said "bullschildt" is virtually forgotten -- he WORD, which I
thought was clear enough given we were discussing similar words like
"Nilgewater". People don't discuss Schildt much now, except here in
response to your interminable flame wars. I don't recall the last time
anyone used that word, except in response to your false claim that
Seebach had coined it.
However, don't despair, as you are going strong in your own production
of, well, Nilgewater, that word will remain current.

I know, by means which are not of your goddamn business, that Schildt
and his family have been seriously offended and wounded by this.

And if this furore is harming Schildt, the person to blame is you. You
use this guy as a pretext to attack your enemies here. You don't give
a **** about him. You hate and despise C, as you have said many times,
why on earth would you so loudly defend a long out of print book on
the subject that no one in the whole world, the author included, has
thought of for a decade? He's not a shrinking violet, if he had an
opinion I'm sure he would say so and not deputise a loudmouthed
asshole to speak for him.

 

[Tim Streater]

Actually, in the context "coon" isn't even remotely racist (a fact that
Nilges has yet to discover, but which - when he eventually does - he
will claim he knew all along).

I wouldn't personally consider "Limey" to be any more racist than
"Yank". I'm perfectly happy to call Yanks Yanks, and perfectly happy for
them to call me a Limey if they want. They know who I mean, and I know
who they mean, and neither term seems to me to be particularly offensive
(any more than "coon" is, in the context in which it was used in this
thread).

A nice summary - but one that'll turn out to be too hard for Spinny,
fascist bully that he is, to comprehend.

 

[BruceS]

I'm not in America, shit-for-brains. In any case, if anything, it would
be a British racist slur on Africans. I never heard it used or referred
to while I was in the US.

I am in the U.S., so maybe I can help. The term "coon" is one of
many, many terms used as a racial epithet for blacks. Many of these
terms (e.g. "spook") have other, inoffensive uses. When someone uses
the term "coon" in the States, he is much more likely to be talking
about a smallish quadrupedal mammal than making a slur against a
human. The phrase "coon's age" particularly is a non-racial term, no
more insulting than "sweat like a pig", which is not directed at
police. The word "coon", and the term "coon's age" are both more
likely to be heard in Southern, and/or rural places, and may just
cause puzzlement in urban America. FWIW, people who have self respect
not only avoid using racial slurs, they also avoid being insulted by
them. I've had ethnic (and other) insults thrown at me, and mostly
found them laughable. They expose the degradation of the racist; they
don't degrade the target. Mr. Nilges seems to be attempting to defend
those who don't need defense from something that is not an offense.
He seems to be generous with his vitriol, but niggardly with his
understanding.
HTH

 

[BruceS]

The idea that black programmers would be intimidated by seeing the
phrase "coon's age" is ludicrous. Blacks hear a lot worse than that
without running scared. Your claim is insulting and racist. OTOH,
maybe the odd "Limey son of a bitch" may be sensitive enough for your
hate speech to drive him away---I don't know just how delicate they
are.

Actually, in the context "coon" isn't even remotely racist (a fact that
Nilges has yet to discover, but which - when he eventually does - he
will claim he knew all along).

I think you err on the side of unreasonable expectations.

I wouldn't personally consider "Limey" to be any more racist than
"Yank". I'm perfectly happy to call Yanks Yanks, and perfectly happy for
them to call me a Limey if they want. They know who I mean, and I know
who they mean, and neither term seems to me to be particularly offensive
(any more than "coon" is, in the context in which it was used in this
thread).

<snip>

Since "Limey" comes from the habit of English sailors eating citrus to
avoid scurvy, it's hardly an effective insult. "Hey, your country's
history demonstrates an intelligent response to a problem. That shows
what an idiot *you* are!" Since both Merry Old and The Colonies are
multiracial, it would be more of a nationalist insult anyway, not a
racial one. "Yankee" is even funnier. To most of the world, a Yankee
is anyone from the U.S.A. (the one in the Western hemisphere). To
someone in the U.S., a Yankee is anyone from the States that were in
the Union during the War of Northern Aggression. To a Northerner, a
Yankee is someone from the Northeastern states. Etc., to the point
that in some little town in VT (?) a Yankee is Joe, the guy in that
green house. Calling a black Southerner "Yankee" is more likely to
get a rise out of him than calling him "coon", though neither is
likely to make him run away like a frightened rabbit.
(FTR, I'm what is referred to as a "Damned Yankee", a grievous insult
delivered by genteel Southerners with a smile, and generally no bad
feelings)

 

[spinoza1111]

I am in the U.S., so maybe I can help.  The term "coon" is one of
many, many terms used as a racial epithet for blacks.  Many of these
terms (e.g. "spook") have other, inoffensive uses.  When someone uses
the term "coon" in the States, he is much more likely to be talking
about a smallish quadrupedal mammal than making a slur against a
human.  The phrase "coon's age" particularly is a non-racial term, no
more insulting than "sweat like a pig", which is not directed at
police.  The word "coon", and the term "coon's age" are both more
likely to be heard in Southern, and/or rural places, and may just
cause puzzlement in urban America.  FWIW, people who have self respect
not only avoid using racial slurs, they also avoid being insulted by
them.  I've had ethnic (and other) insults thrown at me, and mostly
found them laughable.  They expose the degradation of the racist; they
don't degrade the target.  Mr. Nilges seems to be attempting to defend
those who don't need defense from something that is not an offense.
He seems to be generous with his vitriol, but niggardly with his
understanding.
HTH

Sure, as the gang leader of your own self, you cultivate a false inner
hardness. Tell me something I don't know. It allows you to act like a
shithead.

 

[spinoza1111]

The idea that black programmers would be intimidated by seeing the
phrase "coon's age" is ludicrous.  Blacks hear a lot worse than that
without running scared.  Your claim is insulting and racist.  OTOH,
maybe the odd "Limey son of a bitch" may be sensitive enough for your
hate speech to drive him away---I don't know just how delicate they
are.

The hate speech started when Heathfield and Seebach, years ago,
started labeling people incompetent based on their own incompetence.
This was a knowing and serious injury to reputation.

Neither are capable of diligent programming and neither are more than
low-level technicians. They are here because they'd be laughed or
moderated out of quality groups.

Smarting with the hurt of being in Seebach's case shut out of actual
programming or even bug fixing (as opposed to reporting), and in
Heathfield's case being a glorified temp, they have for years taken
their Fascist hostility out on competent people here, including
Schildt, Navia, myself, and developers posting at some risk from
mainland China.

To use the prissy language of the lower middle class to label a person
incompetent with the deliberate intention of damaging a career is the
real hate speech.

I think you err on the side of unreasonable expectations.



Since "Limey" comes from the habit of English sailors eating citrus to
avoid scurvy, it's hardly an effective insult.  "Hey, your country's
history demonstrates an intelligent response to a problem.  That shows

Rather exceptional in view of the fact of brutality for centuries that
erupted into mutiny in 1790, and the Israeli-like boarding of the
ships of my country in search of fresh meat in 1805.

 

[Tim Streater]

[snip]

Since "Limey" comes from the habit of English sailors eating citrus to
avoid scurvy, it's hardly an effective insult. "Hey, your country's
history demonstrates an intelligent response to a problem. That shows
what an idiot *you* are!" Since both Merry Old and The Colonies are
multiracial, it would be more of a nationalist insult anyway, not a
racial one. "Yankee" is even funnier. To most of the world, a Yankee
is anyone from the U.S.A. (the one in the Western hemisphere). To
someone in the U.S., a Yankee is anyone from the States that were in
the Union during the War of Northern Aggression. To a Northerner, a
Yankee is someone from the Northeastern states. Etc., to the point
that in some little town in VT (?) a Yankee is Joe, the guy in that
green house. Calling a black Southerner "Yankee" is more likely to
get a rise out of him than calling him "coon", though neither is
likely to make him run away like a frightened rabbit.
(FTR, I'm what is referred to as a "Damned Yankee", a grievous insult
delivered by genteel Southerners with a smile, and generally no bad
feelings)

Well I didn't expect this much attention to the issue although I'll
happily confess that my second use of the phrase was calculated to wind
Spinny up. But then, as I've noted before, it's like going to Bedlam and
poking the inmates with sticks.

Your notes about "Yankee" above, expanding my knowledge (thanks), remind
me of the moment in IIRC "Flash for Freedom" where Flashman's companion,
in a bar in mid-19thC Houston, calls a local "A damned Yankee
pipsqueak". Flashman leaves in a hurry to avoid the ensuing brawl.

 

[Malcolm McLean]

Since "Limey" comes from the habit of English sailors eating citrus to
avoid scurvy, it's hardly an effective insult.

Racial epithets are seldom inherently insulting. They are just
contractions of regular words used to describe the race, or words
meaning "foreigner", or fairly harmless references to diet. However
some racial groups are socially stigmatised, and any reference to them
at all, except in the context of promoting that groups' political
interests, risks falling foul of hair-trigger sensitivities.

 

[BruceS]

Racial epithets are seldom inherently insulting. They are just
contractions of regular words used to describe the race, or words
meaning "foreigner", or fairly harmless references to diet. However
some racial groups are socially stigmatised, and any reference to them
at all, except in the context of promoting that groups' political
interests, risks falling foul of hair-trigger sensitivities.

Well said. I would add that the hair-trigger sensitivities seem to be
more prevalent among those looking for trouble in the first place
(often not actually members of the referenced target group) than among
the rank-and-file of the target group. People choose to be offended
by these terms, or more typically choose to assume others are
offended.

 

[BruceS]

[snip]

Since "Limey" comes from the habit of English sailors eating citrus to
avoid scurvy, it's hardly an effective insult.  "Hey, your country's
history demonstrates an intelligent response to a problem.  That shows
what an idiot *you* are!"  Since both Merry Old and The Colonies are
multiracial, it would be more of a nationalist insult anyway, not a
racial one.  "Yankee" is even funnier.  To most of the world, a Yankee
is anyone from the U.S.A. (the one in the Western hemisphere).  To
someone in the U.S., a Yankee is anyone from the States that were in
the Union during the War of Northern Aggression.  To a Northerner, a
Yankee is someone from the Northeastern states.  Etc., to the point
that in some little town in VT (?) a Yankee is Joe, the guy in that
green house.  Calling a black Southerner "Yankee" is more likely to
get a rise out of him than calling him "coon", though neither is
likely to make him run away like a frightened rabbit.
(FTR, I'm what is referred to as a "Damned Yankee", a grievous insult
delivered by genteel Southerners with a smile, and generally no bad
feelings)

Well I didn't expect this much attention to the issue although I'll
happily confess that my second use of the phrase was calculated to wind
Spinny up. But then, as I've noted before, it's like going to Bedlam and
poking the inmates with sticks.

I'm guilty of that behavior at times, but have many times resisted the
urge to respond directly to him. I've discarded more of such than
I've posted, though sometimes I still backslide.

Your notes about "Yankee" above, expanding my knowledge (thanks), remind
me of the moment in IIRC "Flash for Freedom" where Flashman's companion,
in  a bar in mid-19thC Houston, calls a local "A damned Yankee
pipsqueak". Flashman leaves in a hurry to avoid the ensuing brawl.

FTR, that "local" may have been a "damned Yankee" indeed. That term
is reserved for Yankees who not only visit the Glorious South, but
have the outrageous audacity to *move in*! The worst of the worst of
these, such as my all-time favorite person, go one step further and
marry a Southern belle and take her out of God's Country. The only
excuse for this is that while damaging the South by stealing away one
of her flowers, the miscreant is improving the South by removing
himself.

 

[Seebs]

I guess Seebach was right, you really do just automatically choose the
opposite position of your enemies, regardless if it makes any sense,
in this case you are trying to distinguish yourself from Heathfield,
who you have abused for his religious beliefs.

More fundamentally, the above is obviously trolling. No one claims
Catholics prefer not to read the Bible except in the hopes of starting a
flame war.

Now that must make you feel proud. While bullschildt is forgotten
except by a few scholars, we're all familiar with Nilgewater after
over 20 years of hard trolling.

I suspect the term will eventually become more broadly used, because
it's such an evocative description of purely reactive madness.

-s

 

[Seebs]

Perhaps he shouldn't have churned out books with such broad and obvious
errors that lead the people who read them to be bad and puzzled
programmers, then?

More importantly, if he really found it "wounding", why the hell did he
fix exactly one of two identical copies of a claim, that being the one
listed in the 3e edition of C:TCN? He clearly *knew* that his book was
full of errors. Why was he unwilling to put even the most basic effort
into fixing them?

That said, I do not have any evidence supporting the theory that Nilges
has any information at all about Schildt or his family. Nilges is a habitual
liar; Schildt is an adult human. It seems more likely that Nilges is lying
than that Schildt is "seriously offended and wounded" by easily verified
criticisms of something he clearly doesn't care to put effort into.

It is also unclear what "this" is. Nilges is sufficiently non-rational that
if he got outraged letters from Schildt demanding that Nilges shut the ****
up and stop making him look so bad, he'd just file it under "Schildt is
indeed upset, this means I should push harder."

-s

 

[Seebs]

Tim, that's a fiver you owe me. He didn't learn nuffin.

Heh. I'd point out that he's hardly the first person to notice the
homonym there -- it was used as part of some witty repartee in the big
screen remake of Wild Wild West. But the mere fact that it was a sly
dig proves that the phrase itself is NOT a usage of the racist slur.

-s

 

[Colonel Harlan Sanders]

Well said. I would add that the hair-trigger sensitivities seem to be
more prevalent among those looking for trouble in the first place
(often not actually members of the referenced target group) than among
the rank-and-file of the target group. People choose to be offended
by these terms, or more typically choose to assume others are
offended.

Which is Nilges' technique: he takes offence on behalf of blacks at
the phrase "a coon's age". He takes offence on behalf of Muslims when
the "Bangladeshi students" who post inane questions and never follow
up are made fun of. He takes offence on behalf of Jews if he is called
a troll (don't ask). And of course, he takes offence at an negative
review of "C the Complete Reference" written 14 years ago, because
Schildt's "family have been seriously offended and wounded".

All or any of these he believes gives him the licence to call anyone
whatever filthy name he can think of, and to abuse them in this and
any other venue he can use, because that's "self defense", as he has
appointed himself the all-purpose class action vigilante and is
Fighting The Good Fight For Decent People Everywhere.

 

[Seebs]

Since "Limey" comes from the habit of English sailors eating citrus to
avoid scurvy, it's hardly an effective insult. "Hey, your country's
history demonstrates an intelligent response to a problem. That shows
what an idiot *you* are!"

I think you'll find that "demonstrates an intelligent response to a problem"
is, to Nilges, a deadly insult.

-s

 

[Keith Thompson]

I think you'll find that "demonstrates an intelligent response to a problem"
is, to Nilges, a deadly insult.

Seebs, please consider whether even a reasonably witty comment like
yours above actually improves the signal-to-noise ratio. Thank you.

 

[BruceS]

Seebs, please consider whether even a reasonably witty comment like
yours above actually improves the signal-to-noise ratio.  Thank you.

As this entire thread is clearly "noise" in the clc informational
sense, I think it does no harm. For those not interested in
flamewars, gossip, etc., I recommend skipping any thread with
"Schildt", "Dweebach", etc. in the subject line. FWIW, it made me
laugh. Maybe if a loon spends enough time raging in an ot thread, he
has less time to corrupt more signal-based threads.