Java User Groups

Discussion in 'Java' started by Michael Redlich, Feb 7, 2006.

  1. Folks:

    I am sure that a lot of you belong to some kind of Java Users Group.
    It's an excellent resource for the exchange of information, ideas,
    skills, and know-how. And when you have the opportunity to host guest
    speakers, such as industry experts and representatives from companies
    like JBoss or Borland, it is indeed a huge benefit to that users group.

    If any of you happen to be a Java Users Group leader like me, you know
    that spreading the word about a guest speaker is very important. You
    obviously want to maximize attendance at that particular meeting.

    When Ivis Technologies sent two representatives to make a presentation
    at last December's ACGNJ Java Users Group meeting, I posted that
    information about the upcoming meeting on these groups. Being new to
    these groups at the time, I didn't think it was a problem. However,
    one person rudely made me aware that this was a big no-no. I would
    have appreciated a more respectible response. I was immediately
    labeled a "spammer" in his eyes, and things got a little ugly since I
    admitedly over-reacted as well.

    So, this leads me to a request for feedback from you...

    I was thinking about starting a new Google Group that would deal solely
    with information about Java User Groups around the world. Any Java
    Users Group leader would be able to post information about their
    particular group and upcoming meetings, especially those that involve a
    guest speaker, like, say, Bruce Eckel. You would be free from silly,
    immature comments and knee-jerk reactions of threats to be "plonked."
    This medium would be excellent for those parts of the world that have a
    dense contingent of Java developers, like, say NYC, San Francisco,
    Germany, and wherever else in Europe.

    So I would appreciate your most candid feedback. If you think that
    this is a bad idea, then I need to know that.

    Thanks in advance...

    Mike.

    -----
    ACGNJ Java Users Group
    http://www.javasig.org/
     
    Michael Redlich, Feb 7, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. On 2006-02-07, Michael Redlich penned:

    [snip]

    > I was thinking about starting a new Google Group that would deal
    > solely with information about Java User Groups around the world.
    > Any Java Users Group leader would be able to post information about
    > their particular group and upcoming meetings, especially those that
    > involve a guest speaker, like, say, Bruce Eckel. You would be free
    > from silly, immature comments and knee-jerk reactions of threats to
    > be "plonked." This medium would be excellent for those parts of the
    > world that have a dense contingent of Java developers, like, say
    > NYC, San Francisco, Germany, and wherever else in Europe.
    >
    > So I would appreciate your most candid feedback. If you think that
    > this is a bad idea, then I need to know that.
    >


    I would suggest a regular newsgroup, not a google group.

    --
    monique

    Ask smart questions, get good answers:
    http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
     
    Monique Y. Mudama, Feb 7, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Michael Redlich

    Oliver Wong Guest

    "Monique Y. Mudama" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 2006-02-07, Michael Redlich penned:
    >
    > [snip]
    >
    >> I was thinking about starting a new Google Group that would deal
    >> solely with information about Java User Groups around the world.
    >> Any Java Users Group leader would be able to post information about
    >> their particular group and upcoming meetings, especially those that
    >> involve a guest speaker, like, say, Bruce Eckel. You would be free
    >> from silly, immature comments and knee-jerk reactions of threats to
    >> be "plonked." This medium would be excellent for those parts of the
    >> world that have a dense contingent of Java developers, like, say
    >> NYC, San Francisco, Germany, and wherever else in Europe.
    >>
    >> So I would appreciate your most candid feedback. If you think that
    >> this is a bad idea, then I need to know that.
    >>

    >
    > I would suggest a regular newsgroup, not a google group.


    Getting a new newsgroup is a non-trivial task though. What about using
    comp.lang.java.announce, if it isn't already overrun with bot posts?

    - Oliver
     
    Oliver Wong, Feb 7, 2006
    #3
  4. Michael Redlich

    Chris Smith Guest

    Oliver Wong <> wrote:
    > Getting a new newsgroup is a non-trivial task though. What about using
    > comp.lang.java.announce, if it isn't already overrun with bot posts?


    User group announcements are DEFINITELY welcome on the
    comp.lang.java.announce newsgroup. I don't see the problem with them
    here either, but as an unmoderated group, anyone who likes can object to
    something here.

    However, there's a bit of moderation issue for clj.announce. Jon Skeet
    and I are the only moderators, and Jon doesn't even follow Java
    newsgroups any longer. If a few people (who I know from the groups,
    since there's a bit of a trust issue) would volunteer to moderate the
    group on occasion, then this could work.

    --
    www.designacourse.com
    The Easiest Way To Train Anyone... Anywhere.

    Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer/Technical Trainer
    MindIQ Corporation
     
    Chris Smith, Feb 7, 2006
    #4
  5. On 2006-02-07, Oliver Wong penned:
    >
    > "Monique Y. Mudama" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >>
    >> I would suggest a regular newsgroup, not a google group.

    >
    > Getting a new newsgroup is a non-trivial task though. What about
    > using comp.lang.java.announce, if it isn't already overrun with
    > bot posts?
    >


    I'm not terribly familiar with google groups, but isn't it the case
    that google groups mirrors newsgroups, but newsgroup servers won't
    carry google groups? That's why I suggested newsgroups.

    --
    monique

    Ask smart questions, get good answers:
    http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
     
    Monique Y. Mudama, Feb 7, 2006
    #5
  6. Michael Redlich wrote:

    > So I would appreciate your most candid feedback. If you think that
    > this is a bad idea, then I need to know that.
    >
    >


    Personally, I think cljp can easily accommodate a JUG announcement or
    two. I've been off and on this particular group for years. Once in a
    while a self appointed cop comes along, stays a while, and finally
    leaves after realizing he can't control everyone.

    You can't please everyone with your post. Newsgroups have changed over
    the years for sure...and a lot more stuff is tolerated today than ever
    before. And it aint gonna get any less tolerant...if cljp doesn't have
    the signal/noise ratio that people want, they'll leave to find other
    resources. This ng has evolved too, and I wouldn't worry too much about
    what a few people think...if it's related to java programming, java
    apis, java design, java questions, java topics, it can't be too far off
    if it falls into cljp...the catchall of Java newsgroups even if it
    wasn't originally intended to be.

    --
    John O'Conner
     
    John O'Conner, Feb 7, 2006
    #6
  7. Michael Redlich

    Oliver Wong Guest

    "Monique Y. Mudama" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 2006-02-07, Oliver Wong penned:
    >>
    >> "Monique Y. Mudama" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>>
    >>> I would suggest a regular newsgroup, not a google group.

    >>
    >> Getting a new newsgroup is a non-trivial task though. What about
    >> using comp.lang.java.announce, if it isn't already overrun with
    >> bot posts?
    >>

    >
    > I'm not terribly familiar with google groups, but isn't it the case
    > that google groups mirrors newsgroups, but newsgroup servers won't
    > carry google groups? That's why I suggested newsgroups.


    Yes, that's correct. I had assumed you meant for the OP to try to
    petition for the creation of a new newsgroup, to which I claimed was
    relatively difficult (especially compared to the creation of a new google
    group).

    - Oliver
     
    Oliver Wong, Feb 7, 2006
    #7
  8. On 2006-02-07, Oliver Wong penned:
    >
    > "Monique Y. Mudama" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >>
    >> I'm not terribly familiar with google groups, but isn't it the case
    >> that google groups mirrors newsgroups, but newsgroup servers won't
    >> carry google groups? That's why I suggested newsgroups.

    >
    > Yes, that's correct. I had assumed you meant for the OP to try to
    > petition for the creation of a new newsgroup, to which I claimed
    > was relatively difficult (especially compared to the creation of a
    > new google group).
    >


    Well, I did mean that. If you want people to make use of something,
    you make it as easy to access as possible, even if that means creating
    a newsgroup. Then again, I guess you then need to convince servers to
    actually carry said newsgroup ... yeah, that could be a pain.

    I've never actually tried to create a newsgroup, so I only have the
    vaguest idea of what might be involved.

    --
    monique

    Ask smart questions, get good answers:
    http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
     
    Monique Y. Mudama, Feb 7, 2006
    #8
  9. Michael Redlich

    P.Hill Guest

    John O'Conner wrote:
    > Personally, I think cljp can easily accommodate a JUG announcement or
    > two.


    Actually, having been a JUG director, I wouldn't stay on cljp just to
    see announcements about speakers to get ideas. It seems like a
    specialty group might have it's own discussions about who might be
    contacted to provide a speaker. Long threads about using some
    JaveOne video or how to break up a meeting in parts etc. seems
    a bit tangential to cljp. Getting a bunch of people together with a
    fixed focus (filling meetings with speakers) seems like a great use for
    a google group. I am a member a 7 such groups ranging from parents in
    my area to people with an interest in a particular sport, and have read
    Usenet on and off for years. Given that, I'd say user group discussion
    of speakers is more a group/mailing list then a newsgroup. The
    disadvantage of a list is that many might not know you exist, so you'd
    have to advertise by putting meeting announcements in more general
    places: like this newsgroup.

    I also note that there is set of mailings lists on SDN.
    https://jugs.dev.java.net/

    You might peak at that to see if it is active.

    -Paul
     
    P.Hill, Feb 8, 2006
    #9
  10. Chris Smith wrote:
    >
    > User group announcements are DEFINITELY welcome on the
    > comp.lang.java.announce newsgroup. I don't see the problem with them
    > here either, but as an unmoderated group, anyone who likes can object to
    > something here.
    >
    > However, there's a bit of moderation issue for clj.announce. Jon Skeet
    > and I are the only moderators, and Jon doesn't even follow Java
    > newsgroups any longer. If a few people (who I know from the groups,
    > since there's a bit of a trust issue) would volunteer to moderate the
    > group on occasion, then this could work.
    >


    Chris:

    I just subscribed to the clj.announce group and had a peek at the
    content. That would work for me. I didn't realize this group existed.
    Using an established group solves two issues:

    (a) not having to worry about setting up a new one (obviously...)
    (b) announcing the new group to the other groups (which could
    potentially annoy those that take exception to such posts).

    I'd be more-than-happy to help moderate clja. I already "own" and
    moderate the Yahoo! Groups that I have for the ACGNJ Java Users Group
    that I run, so I would be comfortable moderating clja.

    Please let me know.

    Thanks!

    Mike.

    -----
    ACGNJ Java Users Group
    http://www.javasig.org/
     
    Michael Redlich, Feb 8, 2006
    #10
  11. Michael Redlich

    Oliver Wong Guest

    "Monique Y. Mudama" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 2006-02-07, Oliver Wong penned:
    >>
    >> "Monique Y. Mudama" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>>
    >>> I'm not terribly familiar with google groups, but isn't it the case
    >>> that google groups mirrors newsgroups, but newsgroup servers won't
    >>> carry google groups? That's why I suggested newsgroups.

    >>
    >> Yes, that's correct. I had assumed you meant for the OP to try to
    >> petition for the creation of a new newsgroup, to which I claimed
    >> was relatively difficult (especially compared to the creation of a
    >> new google group).
    >>

    >
    > Well, I did mean that. If you want people to make use of something,
    > you make it as easy to access as possible, even if that means creating
    > a newsgroup. Then again, I guess you then need to convince servers to
    > actually carry said newsgroup ... yeah, that could be a pain.
    >
    > I've never actually tried to create a newsgroup, so I only have the
    > vaguest idea of what might be involved.


    Me too, but according to
    http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/creating-newsgroups/part1/

    <quote>
    is a body of volunteers experienced with
    the newsgroup creation process. They assist people who want to
    propose new groups with the formation and submission of a good
    proposal. It is strongly encouraged, though not required, that they
    be contacted with an outline of the basic idea for a proposal, and a
    mentor will work with the proponents to submit a formal proposal.
    People who have experience with the process and wish to help others
    should contact to join.

    1) A request for discussion on creation of a new newsgroup should be
    posted to news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, and any other
    groups or mailing lists at all related to the proposed topic if
    desired. news.announce.newgroups is moderated, and the
    Followup-to: header will be set so that the actual discussion takes
    place only in news.groups. Users on sites which have difficulty
    posting to moderated groups may mail submissions intended for
    news.announce.newgroups to . The proposal
    must be in the format defined in "How to Format and Submit a
    New Group Proposal", a pointer to which is at the end of this message.

    The article should be cross-posted among the newsgroups, including
    news.announce.newgroups, rather than posted as separate articles.
    Note that standard behaviour for posting software is to not present
    the articles in any groups when cross-posted to a moderated group;
    the moderator will handle that for you.

    2) The name and charter of the proposed group and whether it will be
    moderated or unmoderated (and if the former, who the moderator(s)
    will be) should be determined during the discussion period. If
    there is no general agreement on these points among the proponents
    of a new group at the end of 30 days of discussion, the discussion
    should be taken offline (into mail instead of news.groups) and the
    proponents should iron out the details among themselves. Once that
    is done, a new, more specific proposal may be made, going back to
    step 1) above.

    3) Group advocates seeking help in choosing a name to suit the
    proposed charter, or looking for any other guidance in the creation
    procedure, can send a message to ; a few
    seasoned news administrators are available through this address.
    </quote>

    And it goes on and on...

    I ran my own private news server for a short while. If you do that, you
    can create any groups you want, but then the problem is getting people to
    subscribe to your news server. Eclipse runs their own news server, for
    example.

    - Oliver
     
    Oliver Wong, Feb 8, 2006
    #11
  12. Folks:

    Thanks for all of your feedback. I appreciate it very much.

    I have decided to use the existing comp.lang.java.announce (clja)
    group. This makes sense. I also volunteered to assist in moderating
    the content since there was a need for additional moderators.

    So for those of you that are Java Users Group leaders, please keep clja
    in mind if you have a need to make announcements regarding guest
    speakers at your respective user groups. And for everyone else, please
    check in from time-to-time. You never know when you'll catch an
    opportunity to meet an industry expert in your area.

    Sincerely,

    Mike.

    -----
    ACGNJ Java Users Group
    http://www.javasig.org/
     
    Michael Redlich, Feb 10, 2006
    #12
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Do

    Vs.net user groups

    Do, Oct 20, 2003, in forum: ASP .Net
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    367
    John Soulis [MSFT]
    Oct 22, 2003
  2. Petra Hübner
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    471
    Petra Hübner
    Feb 16, 2004
  3. anonymous
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    4,662
    Francisco Padron
    May 8, 2005
  4. Replies:
    3
    Views:
    383
    Peter Hansen
    Jun 10, 2005
  5. Hamish

    UK Java User Groups?

    Hamish, May 31, 2009, in forum: Java
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    364
    Hamish
    May 31, 2009
Loading...

Share This Page