Java User Groups

[Michael Redlich]

Folks:

I am sure that a lot of you belong to some kind of Java Users Group.
It's an excellent resource for the exchange of information, ideas,
skills, and know-how. And when you have the opportunity to host guest
speakers, such as industry experts and representatives from companies
like JBoss or Borland, it is indeed a huge benefit to that users group.

If any of you happen to be a Java Users Group leader like me, you know
that spreading the word about a guest speaker is very important. You
obviously want to maximize attendance at that particular meeting.

When Ivis Technologies sent two representatives to make a presentation
at last December's ACGNJ Java Users Group meeting, I posted that
information about the upcoming meeting on these groups. Being new to
these groups at the time, I didn't think it was a problem. However,
one person rudely made me aware that this was a big no-no. I would
have appreciated a more respectible response. I was immediately
labeled a "spammer" in his eyes, and things got a little ugly since I
admitedly over-reacted as well.

So, this leads me to a request for feedback from you...

I was thinking about starting a new Google Group that would deal solely
with information about Java User Groups around the world. Any Java
Users Group leader would be able to post information about their
particular group and upcoming meetings, especially those that involve a
guest speaker, like, say, Bruce Eckel. You would be free from silly,
immature comments and knee-jerk reactions of threats to be "plonked."
This medium would be excellent for those parts of the world that have a
dense contingent of Java developers, like, say NYC, San Francisco,
Germany, and wherever else in Europe.

So I would appreciate your most candid feedback. If you think that
this is a bad idea, then I need to know that.

Thanks in advance...

Mike.

 

[Monique Y. Mudama]

On 2006-02-07, Michael Redlich penned:

[snip]

I was thinking about starting a new Google Group that would deal
solely with information about Java User Groups around the world.
Any Java Users Group leader would be able to post information about
their particular group and upcoming meetings, especially those that
involve a guest speaker, like, say, Bruce Eckel. You would be free
from silly, immature comments and knee-jerk reactions of threats to
be "plonked." This medium would be excellent for those parts of the
world that have a dense contingent of Java developers, like, say
NYC, San Francisco, Germany, and wherever else in Europe.

So I would appreciate your most candid feedback. If you think that
this is a bad idea, then I need to know that.

I would suggest a regular newsgroup, not a google group.

 

[Oliver Wong]

On 2006-02-07, Michael Redlich penned:

[snip]

I was thinking about starting a new Google Group that would deal
solely with information about Java User Groups around the world.
Any Java Users Group leader would be able to post information about
their particular group and upcoming meetings, especially those that
involve a guest speaker, like, say, Bruce Eckel. You would be free
from silly, immature comments and knee-jerk reactions of threats to
be "plonked." This medium would be excellent for those parts of the
world that have a dense contingent of Java developers, like, say
NYC, San Francisco, Germany, and wherever else in Europe.

So I would appreciate your most candid feedback. If you think that
this is a bad idea, then I need to know that.

I would suggest a regular newsgroup, not a google group.

Getting a new newsgroup is a non-trivial task though. What about using
comp.lang.java.announce, if it isn't already overrun with bot posts?

- Oliver

 

[Chris Smith]

Getting a new newsgroup is a non-trivial task though. What about using
comp.lang.java.announce, if it isn't already overrun with bot posts?

User group announcements are DEFINITELY welcome on the
comp.lang.java.announce newsgroup. I don't see the problem with them
here either, but as an unmoderated group, anyone who likes can object to
something here.

However, there's a bit of moderation issue for clj.announce. Jon Skeet
and I are the only moderators, and Jon doesn't even follow Java
newsgroups any longer. If a few people (who I know from the groups,
since there's a bit of a trust issue) would volunteer to moderate the
group on occasion, then this could work.

--
www.designacourse.com
The Easiest Way To Train Anyone... Anywhere.

Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer/Technical Trainer
MindIQ Corporation

 

[Monique Y. Mudama]

Getting a new newsgroup is a non-trivial task though. What about
using comp.lang.java.announce, if it isn't already overrun with
bot posts?

I'm not terribly familiar with google groups, but isn't it the case
that google groups mirrors newsgroups, but newsgroup servers won't
carry google groups? That's why I suggested newsgroups.

 

[John O'Conner]

So I would appreciate your most candid feedback. If you think that
this is a bad idea, then I need to know that.

Personally, I think cljp can easily accommodate a JUG announcement or
two. I've been off and on this particular group for years. Once in a
while a self appointed cop comes along, stays a while, and finally
leaves after realizing he can't control everyone.

You can't please everyone with your post. Newsgroups have changed over
the years for sure...and a lot more stuff is tolerated today than ever
before. And it aint gonna get any less tolerant...if cljp doesn't have
the signal/noise ratio that people want, they'll leave to find other
resources. This ng has evolved too, and I wouldn't worry too much about
what a few people think...if it's related to java programming, java
apis, java design, java questions, java topics, it can't be too far off
if it falls into cljp...the catchall of Java newsgroups even if it
wasn't originally intended to be.

 

[Oliver Wong]

I'm not terribly familiar with google groups, but isn't it the case
that google groups mirrors newsgroups, but newsgroup servers won't
carry google groups? That's why I suggested newsgroups.

Yes, that's correct. I had assumed you meant for the OP to try to
petition for the creation of a new newsgroup, to which I claimed was
relatively difficult (especially compared to the creation of a new google
group).

- Oliver

 

[Monique Y. Mudama]

Yes, that's correct. I had assumed you meant for the OP to try to
petition for the creation of a new newsgroup, to which I claimed
was relatively difficult (especially compared to the creation of a
new google group).

Well, I did mean that. If you want people to make use of something,
you make it as easy to access as possible, even if that means creating
a newsgroup. Then again, I guess you then need to convince servers to
actually carry said newsgroup ... yeah, that could be a pain.

I've never actually tried to create a newsgroup, so I only have the
vaguest idea of what might be involved.

 

[P.Hill]

Personally, I think cljp can easily accommodate a JUG announcement or
two.

Actually, having been a JUG director, I wouldn't stay on cljp just to
see announcements about speakers to get ideas. It seems like a
specialty group might have it's own discussions about who might be
contacted to provide a speaker. Long threads about using some
JaveOne video or how to break up a meeting in parts etc. seems
a bit tangential to cljp. Getting a bunch of people together with a
fixed focus (filling meetings with speakers) seems like a great use for
a google group. I am a member a 7 such groups ranging from parents in
my area to people with an interest in a particular sport, and have read
Usenet on and off for years. Given that, I'd say user group discussion
of speakers is more a group/mailing list then a newsgroup. The
disadvantage of a list is that many might not know you exist, so you'd
have to advertise by putting meeting announcements in more general
places: like this newsgroup.

I also note that there is set of mailings lists on SDN.
https://jugs.dev.java.net/

You might peak at that to see if it is active.

-Paul

 

[Michael Redlich]

User group announcements are DEFINITELY welcome on the
comp.lang.java.announce newsgroup. I don't see the problem with them
here either, but as an unmoderated group, anyone who likes can object to
something here.

However, there's a bit of moderation issue for clj.announce. Jon Skeet
and I are the only moderators, and Jon doesn't even follow Java
newsgroups any longer. If a few people (who I know from the groups,
since there's a bit of a trust issue) would volunteer to moderate the
group on occasion, then this could work.

Chris:

I just subscribed to the clj.announce group and had a peek at the
content. That would work for me. I didn't realize this group existed.
Using an established group solves two issues:

(a) not having to worry about setting up a new one (obviously...)
(b) announcing the new group to the other groups (which could
potentially annoy those that take exception to such posts).

I'd be more-than-happy to help moderate clja. I already "own" and
moderate the Yahoo! Groups that I have for the ACGNJ Java Users Group
that I run, so I would be comfortable moderating clja.

Please let me know.

Thanks!

Mike.

 

[Oliver Wong]

Well, I did mean that. If you want people to make use of something,
you make it as easy to access as possible, even if that means creating
a newsgroup. Then again, I guess you then need to convince servers to
actually carry said newsgroup ... yeah, that could be a pain.

I've never actually tried to create a newsgroup, so I only have the
vaguest idea of what might be involved.

Me too, but according to
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/creating-newsgroups/part1/

<quote>
(e-mail address removed) is a body of volunteers experienced with
the newsgroup creation process. They assist people who want to
propose new groups with the formation and submission of a good
proposal. It is strongly encouraged, though not required, that they
be contacted with an outline of the basic idea for a proposal, and a
mentor will work with the proponents to submit a formal proposal.
People who have experience with the process and wish to help others
should contact (e-mail address removed) to join.

1) A request for discussion on creation of a new newsgroup should be
posted to news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, and any other
groups or mailing lists at all related to the proposed topic if
desired. news.announce.newgroups is moderated, and the
Followup-to: header will be set so that the actual discussion takes
place only in news.groups. Users on sites which have difficulty
posting to moderated groups may mail submissions intended for
news.announce.newgroups to (e-mail address removed). The proposal
must be in the format defined in "How to Format and Submit a
New Group Proposal", a pointer to which is at the end of this message.

The article should be cross-posted among the newsgroups, including
news.announce.newgroups, rather than posted as separate articles.
Note that standard behaviour for posting software is to not present
the articles in any groups when cross-posted to a moderated group;
the moderator will handle that for you.

2) The name and charter of the proposed group and whether it will be
moderated or unmoderated (and if the former, who the moderator(s)
will be) should be determined during the discussion period. If
there is no general agreement on these points among the proponents
of a new group at the end of 30 days of discussion, the discussion
should be taken offline (into mail instead of news.groups) and the
proponents should iron out the details among themselves. Once that
is done, a new, more specific proposal may be made, going back to
step 1) above.

3) Group advocates seeking help in choosing a name to suit the
proposed charter, or looking for any other guidance in the creation
procedure, can send a message to (e-mail address removed); a few
seasoned news administrators are available through this address.
</quote>

And it goes on and on...

I ran my own private news server for a short while. If you do that, you
can create any groups you want, but then the problem is getting people to
subscribe to your news server. Eclipse runs their own news server, for
example.

- Oliver

 

[Michael Redlich]

Folks:

Thanks for all of your feedback. I appreciate it very much.

I have decided to use the existing comp.lang.java.announce (clja)
group. This makes sense. I also volunteered to assist in moderating
the content since there was a need for additional moderators.

So for those of you that are Java Users Group leaders, please keep clja
in mind if you have a need to make announcements regarding guest
speakers at your respective user groups. And for everyone else, please
check in from time-to-time. You never know when you'll catch an
opportunity to meet an industry expert in your area.

Sincerely,

Mike.