Like baking a cake

[Joe]

Here's my theory.
http://grakatsa.phpnet.us/webcake.php
Critiques of the theory, the page, whatever welcomed.
I can take it.
I hope.

(slow server, you'll probably get a FOUC)

 

[dorayme]

http://grakatsa.phpnet.us/webcake.php

You have to be kidding!

 

[Leonard Blaisdell]

Here's my theory.
http://grakatsa.phpnet.us/webcake.php
Critiques of the theory, the page, whatever welcomed.
I can take it.
I hope.

(slow server, you'll probably get a FOUC)

I have no heartburn with how quickly it loads on a 56k modem. Nor am I
uncomfortable with the design. Or the philosophy.
I did look at your WebDesign link briefly. The newsreel photo on top
looks like a 2 bit (literally) art deco. I assume that is your intent.

leo

 

[dorayme]

I have no heartburn with how quickly it loads on a 56k modem. Nor am I
uncomfortable with the design. Or the philosophy.
I did look at your WebDesign link briefly. The newsreel photo on top
looks like a 2 bit (literally) art deco. I assume that is your intent.

leo

Much to agree with here Leo - but the cake business is a bit too
much for me. I like cakes like anything but....

 

[David Segall]

Here's my theory.
http://grakatsa.phpnet.us/webcake.php
Critiques of the theory, the page, whatever welcomed.
I can take it.

I look forward to your lesson on brain surgery.
1. Book the operating theater (oven, cakepan)...

 

[Leonard Blaisdell]

I look forward to your lesson on brain surgery.
1. Book the operating theater (oven, cakepan)...

Geeze, don't HTML and CSS mean learning the methods and following a
procedure? They are recipes. They aren't brain surgery or rocket
science. True original breakthrough coding in <insert lower level
computer language here> can compete with the above mentioned occupations
however. IMO.

leo

 

[mbstevens]

Much to agree with here Leo - but the cake business is a bit too
much for me. I like cakes like anything but....

I like them, too. But this one seems only half baked.

 

[David Segall]

Geeze, don't HTML and CSS mean learning the methods and following a
procedure?

My point was simply that most endeavours, including brain surgery, are
about learning methods and following procedures. There are clearly
different skill sets involved in being a good baker and good web page
author. To describe them at the level on the referenced web page is
not helpful because the similarities are superficial and could be
applied to anything.

They are recipes. They aren't brain surgery or rocket
science. True original breakthrough coding in <insert lower level
computer language here> can compete with the above mentioned occupations
however. IMO.

I don't think that most brain surgeons or rocket scientists are any
different from the rest of us. I agree that, occasionally, there is a
"true, original breakthrough" but it can happen in any field, probably
including baking cakes.

 

[Nije Nego]

Here's my theory.
http://grakatsa.phpnet.us/webcake.php
Critiques of the theory, the page, whatever welcomed.
I can take it.
I hope.

(slow server, you'll probably get a FOUC)

I especially like the order: first html - validate, than CSS. Not many does
so.

When it comes to CSS better anology than cake would be gelatine.

 

[dorayme]

Geeze, don't HTML and CSS mean learning the methods and following a
procedure? They are recipes. They aren't brain surgery or rocket
science.

I think you miss the subtlety of what David Segall is meaning or
the mistake in the idea he is lampooning. It is not that there
are not recipes, or various analogies but rather that if it was
really like baking a cake, you would expect people to find it
easier to make websites that work well and seem reasonably
pleasant. The fact is that earthlings do nothing but follow
algorithms, it is the complexity, detail and subtlety of the
algorithms that make the difference between good and bad. Yes,
just as in cake baking. The point is that it is hard to teach as
a recipe the real algorithm that makes a nice cake. This means
that saying that making websites is like baking a cake is almost
more than useless. Getting the idea?

 

[Joe]

I look forward to your lesson on brain surgery.
1. Book the operating theater (oven, cakepan)...

NO - brainsurgery is more like dressmaking.

 

[Leonard Blaisdell]

The point is that it is hard to teach as
a recipe the real algorithm that makes a nice cake. This means
that saying that making websites is like baking a cake is almost
more than useless. Getting the idea?

I've eaten some pretty bad cakes. They were ones I baked mostly. Come to
think of it, I've made some pretty bad websites too.

leo

 

[Adrienne Boswell]

Here's my theory.
http://grakatsa.phpnet.us/webcake.php
Critiques of the theory, the page, whatever welcomed.
I can take it.
I hope.

(slow server, you'll probably get a FOUC)

I like the analogy - and what you did not mention. Cakes can be very
simple (like a banana loaf), or incredibly complex like the 2004 winner
of the Beaver Creek Wedding Competition
<http://www.colettescakes.com/events_foodnet_cc.html>. Those competition
wedding cakes have to have good structure and not fall apart on the way
to the judges table (valid markup), and they have to good taste and look
spectacular (css); just the same as a simple banana bread has to have
good structure, and look and taste good.

 

[dorayme]

I've eaten some pretty bad cakes. They were ones I baked mostly. Come to
think of it, I've made some pretty bad websites too.

leo

Ah Leo... let's face it... you are a sucker for analogies! Some
people are as addicted to these as some are to cakes...

 

[dorayme]

I like the analogy

One of the things about it, is it's nice thinking about cakes.
Luckily, where I live, there is possibly one of the best bread
and cake shops in the world. I have honestly thought of this as a
factor inhibiting selling up and moving elsewhere....

 

[Joe]

I think you miss the subtlety of what David Segall is meaning or
the mistake in the idea he is lampooning. It is not that there
are not recipes, or various analogies but rather that if it was
really like baking a cake, you would expect people to find it
easier to make websites that work well and seem reasonably
pleasant.

And they do. They use a packet cakemix called frontpage. Cakes which
taste ok to 80% of the population. They can "seem reasonably pleasant"
until you either compare it to a 'real' cake or check the ingredients
and see all those numbers. 620, 621, emulsifiers, extenders, artificial
flavourings and colourings - and people EAT that stuff??
Notice, also, that I did not say that making a web page was like making
a pizza. Unfortunately, many web deezigners apparantly think that it is.

The fact is that earthlings do nothing but follow
algorithms, it is the complexity, detail and subtlety of the
algorithms that make the difference between good and bad. Yes,
just as in cake baking. The point is that it is hard to teach as
a recipe the real algorithm that makes a nice cake.

Exactly! Cakes are not all the same. Sponge-cake, mud-cake, fruitcake
(don't point!) any kind of cake. Not always easy to learn and sometimes
even experts can have failures.
And some cakes are over-decorated, some of them just don't taste good,
but sometimes ... oh the bliss!
It comes down to using the best ingredients and combining them in just
the right way.
Anyone can bake a cake. Not everyone can bake a GOOD cake, and I
certainly would not expect them to be able to do so without a good grasp
of the fundamentals.

This means
that saying that making websites is like baking a cake is almost
more than useless. Getting the idea?

nope.
Notice, however, that I did not say

 

[Joe]

My point was simply that most endeavours, including brain surgery, are
about learning methods and following procedures.

Indeed. Learning to cook (and learning to sew) is an excellent way to
begin.

There are clearly
different skill sets involved in being a good baker and good web page
author. To describe them at the level on the referenced web page is
not helpful because the similarities are superficial and could be
applied to anything.

.... could be applied to anything. YES! That's what the theory says.
From the page:
....(E)very skill you ever learn can be resolved down to either
dressmaking or cookery.

When I become World Dictator, every child will be taught to read by age
six, prepare a simple meal by age eight, and sew a garment by age ten.

... I agree that, occasionally, there is a
"true, original breakthrough" but it can happen in any field, probably
including baking cakes.

Cookery (not just baking) is largely about creating new recipes; using
old ingredients in new ways, new combinations and occasionally,
breakthroughs like chocolate, tomatoes and to a larger or lesser extent,
every other new ingredient.

 

[Joe]

Thanks for the kind words.

I especially like the order: first html - validate, than CSS. Not many does
so.

It makes life easier to do it that way. When you build a house (which is
really dressmaking, according to the theory) you don't paint it before
you have finished the structure. You don't decorate a cake before it's
cooked, and you ought not make a website pretty before you get the
content right.

When it comes to CSS better anology than cake would be gelatine.

I never thought of gelatine. I was thinking CSS was the icing and
sprinkles. Very nice to have if done right, but not absolutely
essential.

 

[Joe]

Geeze, don't HTML and CSS mean learning the methods and following a
procedure? They are recipes. They aren't brain surgery or rocket
science. True original breakthrough coding in <insert lower level
computer language here> can compete with the above mentioned occupations
however. IMO.

leo

leo - you get it!
And the coding example helps. Can anyone else remember back to the days
when computer magazines had pages of listings in BASIC and assembler for
us to type in and run on our Microbee/Atari/C64? Recipes.
It's how we learnt programming.
Breakthroughs are maybe like a completely new recipe; new combinations
of known ingredients or maybe even completely new ingredients as well.

 

[Joe]

I have no heartburn with how quickly it loads on a 56k modem. Nor am I
uncomfortable with the design. Or the philosophy.

Nice to know. thanks.

I did look at your WebDesign link briefly. The newsreel photo on top
looks like a 2 bit (literally) art deco. I assume that is your intent.

yep, although I thought it wasa one bit. Took me ages to get just the
degree of degradation I wanted. I was after 'generic people'.
Not worth the effort, hey?