Loading a simple XHTML transitional document into aorg.w3c.dom.Document

Discussion in 'Java' started by Ion Freeman, Jul 9, 2009.

  1. Ion Freeman

    Ion Freeman Guest

    Hi!
    I'm just trying to do the simplest thing in the world. Where input
    is a java.io.File that contains an transitional XHTML 1.0 file, I do

    DocumentBuilderFactory dbf = DocumentBuilderFactory.newInstance
    ();
    dbf.setNamespaceAware(false);
    db = dbf.newDocumentBuilder();
    Document doc = db.parse(input);

    Unfortunately, this tries to pull the DTD from the W3C, and they
    didn't like that. So, they give me a 503 error. I tried the
    EntityResolver from http://forums.sun.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5244492,
    but that just gives me a MalformedURLException. Either way, my parse
    fails.

    I'm sure that at least tens of thousands of people have written code
    to do this, but I can't find a (working) reference online. I think
    most of my XML parsing happened when the W3C would just give the DTDs
    out -- I understand that they found that unworkable, but I still need
    to parse my document.

    How should I be doing this?

    Thanks!

    Ion
     
    Ion Freeman, Jul 9, 2009
    #1
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  2. Ion Freeman

    markspace Guest

    Re: Loading a simple XHTML transitional document into a org.w3c.dom.Document

    Ion Freeman wrote:
    > Hi!
    > I'm just trying to do the simplest thing in the world. Where input
    > is a java.io.File that contains an transitional XHTML 1.0 file, [snip ....]


    > Unfortunately, this tries to pull the DTD from the W3C, and they
    > didn't like that. So, they give me a 503 error.



    There might be some clues here:

    http://www.javalobby.org/java/forums/t105916.html
     
    markspace, Jul 9, 2009
    #2
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  3. Ion Freeman

    Ion Freeman Guest

    Thanks, markspace. I did try Axiom, but it looks like I have to figure
    out how to do everything all over again -- like find an element by id
    and replace it, all I really want to accomplish. I'd really just like
    to get the Xerces parser to load my dtds locally, as opposed to
    erroring out on the W3C site.

    On Jul 9, 3:30 pm, markspace <> wrote:
    > Ion Freeman wrote:
    > > Hi!
    > >    I'm just trying to do the simplest thing in the world. Where input
    > > is a java.io.File that contains an transitional XHTML 1.0 file, [snip .....]
    > > Unfortunately, this tries to pull the DTD from the W3C, and they
    > > didn't like that. So, they give me a 503 error.

    >
    > There might be some clues here:
    >
    > http://www.javalobby.org/java/forums/t105916.html
     
    Ion Freeman, Jul 9, 2009
    #3
  4. Ion Freeman

    markspace Guest

    Re: Loading a simple XHTML transitional document into a org.w3c.dom.Document

    Ion Freeman wrote:
    > Thanks, markspace. I did try Axiom, but it looks like I have to figure
    > out how to do everything all over again -- like find an element by id
    > and replace it, all I really want to accomplish. I'd really just like
    > to get the Xerces parser to load my dtds locally, as opposed to
    > erroring out on the W3C site.
    >
    > On Jul 9, 3:30 pm, markspace <> wrote:
    >> Ion Freeman wrote:
    >>> Hi!
    >>> I'm just trying to do the simplest thing in the world. Where input
    >>> is a java.io.File that contains an transitional XHTML 1.0 file, [snip .....]
    >>> Unfortunately, this tries to pull the DTD from the W3C, and they
    >>> didn't like that. So, they give me a 503 error.

    >> There might be some clues here:
    >>
    >> http://www.javalobby.org/java/forums/t105916.html

    >



    I tried a quick little program of my own, which had a different problem
    than yours did, although mine still threw a fatal error. My take away
    from that error was that the Xerces parser just isn't going to pares the
    looser syntax of a transitional HTML document. You'll have to use a
    special one. The parses built into Java all seem to be XML and nothing
    else, they don't allow for HTML's funky syntax. I'm guessing, but in
    the small amount of work I did that seemed to be the case.
     
    markspace, Jul 9, 2009
    #4
  5. Re: Loading a simple XHTML transitional document into a org.w3c.dom.Document

    Ion Freeman wrote:
    > Hi!
    > I'm just trying to do the simplest thing in the world. Where input
    > is a java.io.File that contains an transitional XHTML 1.0 file, I do
    >
    > DocumentBuilderFactory dbf = DocumentBuilderFactory.newInstance
    > ();
    > dbf.setNamespaceAware(false);
    > db = dbf.newDocumentBuilder();
    > Document doc = db.parse(input);
    >
    > Unfortunately, this tries to pull the DTD from the W3C, and they
    > didn't like that. So, they give me a 503 error. I tried the
    > EntityResolver from
    > http://forums.sun.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5244492, but that just
    > gives me a MalformedURLException. Either way, my parse fails.
    >
    > I'm sure that at least tens of thousands of people have written code
    > to do this, but I can't find a (working) reference online. I think
    > most of my XML parsing happened when the W3C would just give the DTDs
    > out -- I understand that they found that unworkable, but I still need
    > to parse my document.
    >
    > How should I be doing this?


    You should be able to solve this with an entity resolver that returns an
    input source containing the right DTD text. They're not that difficut to
    construct; just recognize the URL and return a StringReader or
    ByteArrayInputStream. Return null for any URL you don't recognize.

    If you know for a fact that the parser is Xerces (it's the default in Java
    1.5 and later), you could try setting the Xerces-specific feature to ignore
    DTDs. http://xml.org/sax/features/external-parameter-entities suggests that
    you set http://xml.org/sax/features/external-parameter-entities to
    "false", though we set
    "http://apache.org/xml/features/nonvalidating/load-dtd-grammar" and
    "http://apache.org/xml/features/nonvalidating/load-external-dtd" to false.
    Be sure to call setValidating(false) too, though I'm pretty sure that's the
    default anyway.
     
    Mike Schilling, Jul 9, 2009
    #5
  6. Re: Loading a simple XHTML transitional document into a org.w3c.dom.Document

    markspace wrote:

    >
    >
    > I tried a quick little program of my own, which had a different
    > problem than yours did, although mine still threw a fatal error. My
    > take away from that error was that the Xerces parser just isn't going
    > to pares the looser syntax of a transitional HTML document. You'll
    > have to use a special one. The parses built into Java all seem to be
    > XML and nothing else, they don't allow for HTML's funky syntax. I'm
    > guessing, but in the small amount of work I did that seemed to be the
    > case.


    The original poster did say he's parsing xhtml, which is an XML-compatible
    version of html. And DTDs (which is what's causing his problems) are a
    standard and supported XML feature.
     
    Mike Schilling, Jul 9, 2009
    #6
  7. Ion Freeman

    markspace Guest

    Re: Loading a simple XHTML transitional document into a org.w3c.dom.Document

    Mike Schilling wrote:
    > markspace wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> I tried a quick little program of my own, which had a different
    >> problem than yours did, although mine still threw a fatal error. My
    >> take away from that error was that the Xerces parser just isn't going
    >> to pares the looser syntax of a transitional HTML document. You'll
    >> have to use a special one. The parses built into Java all seem to be
    >> XML and nothing else, they don't allow for HTML's funky syntax. I'm
    >> guessing, but in the small amount of work I did that seemed to be the
    >> case.

    >
    > The original poster did say he's parsing xhtml, which is an XML-compatible
    > version of html. And DTDs (which is what's causing his problems) are a
    > standard and supported XML feature.



    Theoretically, yes, but he said he was parsing a transitional document,
    and I assume that means "web page." For my test, I used the home page
    of http://cnn.com. It has 42 errors, according the the validator at
    w3c.org. And Xerces barfed on stuff that the W3C validator passed.

    My take away: transitional documents aren't. The OP will need a parser
    specially built to deal with common errors that appear on web pages.
     
    markspace, Jul 9, 2009
    #7
  8. Ion Freeman

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    Re: Loading a simple XHTML transitional document into a org.w3c.dom.Document

    Ion Freeman wrote:
    > I'm just trying to do the simplest thing in the world. Where input
    > is a java.io.File that contains an transitional XHTML 1.0 file, I do
    >
    > DocumentBuilderFactory dbf = DocumentBuilderFactory.newInstance
    > ();
    > dbf.setNamespaceAware(false);
    > db = dbf.newDocumentBuilder();
    > Document doc = db.parse(input);
    >
    > Unfortunately, this tries to pull the DTD from the W3C, and they
    > didn't like that. So, they give me a 503 error. I tried the
    > EntityResolver from http://forums.sun.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5244492,
    > but that just gives me a MalformedURLException. Either way, my parse
    > fails.
    >
    > I'm sure that at least tens of thousands of people have written code
    > to do this, but I can't find a (working) reference online. I think
    > most of my XML parsing happened when the W3C would just give the DTDs
    > out -- I understand that they found that unworkable, but I still need
    > to parse my document.
    >
    > How should I be doing this?


    Download the DTD and the 3 ENT files to your harddrive and tell
    the parse to use those.

    See code below.

    Arne

    =======================================================

    import java.io.IOException;
    import java.io.StringReader;

    import javax.xml.parsers.DocumentBuilder;
    import javax.xml.parsers.DocumentBuilderFactory;

    import org.w3c.dom.Document;
    import org.xml.sax.EntityResolver;
    import org.xml.sax.InputSource;
    import org.xml.sax.SAXException;

    public class XhtmlParse {
    public static void main(String[] args) throws Exception{
    String xml = "<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0
    Transitional//EN\"
    \"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd\">\r\n<html>\r\n<head>\r\n<title>simple
    document</title>\r\n</head>\r\n<body>\r\n<p>a simple
    paragraph</p>\r\n</body>\r\n</html>";
    DocumentBuilderFactory dbf = DocumentBuilderFactory.newInstance();
    dbf.setValidating(true);
    DocumentBuilder db = dbf.newDocumentBuilder();
    db.setEntityResolver(new DTDHandler());
    Document doc = db.parse(new InputSource(new StringReader(xml)));
    }
    }

    class DTDHandler implements EntityResolver {
    @Override
    public InputSource resolveEntity(String publicId, String systemId)
    throws SAXException, IOException {

    if(systemId.equals("http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"))
    {
    return new InputSource("C:\\xhtml1-transitional.dtd");
    } else
    if(systemId.equals("http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml-lat1.ent")) {
    return new InputSource("C:\\xhtml-lat1.ent");
    } else
    if(systemId.equals("http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml-symbol.ent")) {
    return new InputSource("C:\\xhtml-symbol.ent");
    } else
    if(systemId.equals("http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml-special.ent")) {
    return new InputSource("C:\\xhtml-special.ent");
    } else {
    return null;
    }
    }
    }
     
    Arne Vajhøj, Jul 10, 2009
    #8
  9. Ion Freeman

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    Re: Loading a simple XHTML transitional document into a org.w3c.dom.Document

    markspace wrote:
    > Mike Schilling wrote:
    >> markspace wrote:
    >>> I tried a quick little program of my own, which had a different
    >>> problem than yours did, although mine still threw a fatal error. My
    >>> take away from that error was that the Xerces parser just isn't going
    >>> to pares the looser syntax of a transitional HTML document. You'll
    >>> have to use a special one. The parses built into Java all seem to be
    >>> XML and nothing else, they don't allow for HTML's funky syntax. I'm
    >>> guessing, but in the small amount of work I did that seemed to be the
    >>> case.

    >>
    >> The original poster did say he's parsing xhtml, which is an
    >> XML-compatible version of html. And DTDs (which is what's causing his
    >> problems) are a standard and supported XML feature.

    >
    > Theoretically, yes, but he said he was parsing a transitional document,
    > and I assume that means "web page." For my test, I used the home page
    > of http://cnn.com. It has 42 errors, according the the validator at
    > w3c.org. And Xerces barfed on stuff that the W3C validator passed.
    >
    > My take away: transitional documents aren't. The OP will need a parser
    > specially built to deal with common errors that appear on web pages.


    CNN does not claim to be XHTML 1.0 Transitional.

    CNN claims to be HTML 4.01 Transitional.

    Difference.

    There are web pages and there are web pages.

    If something is valid XHTML, then it can be parsed
    by an XML parser.

    If something claims to be XHTML but are actually not
    valid XHTML, then it may not be parseable by an
    XML parser.

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, Jul 10, 2009
    #9
  10. Ion Freeman

    markspace Guest

    Re: Loading a simple XHTML transitional document into a org.w3c.dom.Document

    Arne Vajhøj wrote:

    >
    > CNN does not claim to be XHTML 1.0 Transitional.
    >
    > CNN claims to be HTML 4.01 Transitional.
    >
    > Difference.



    Hmm, Wikipedia said they were the same. Care to elaborate?

    "XHTML 1.0 Transitional is the equivalent of HTML 4.01 Transitional, and
    includes the presentational elements (such as center, font and strike)
    excluded from the strict version."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XHTML
     
    markspace, Jul 10, 2009
    #10
  11. Ion Freeman

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    Re: Loading a simple XHTML transitional document into a org.w3c.dom.Document

    markspace wrote:
    > Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    >> CNN does not claim to be XHTML 1.0 Transitional.
    >>
    >> CNN claims to be HTML 4.01 Transitional.
    >>
    >> Difference.

    >
    > Hmm, Wikipedia said they were the same. Care to elaborate?
    >
    > "XHTML 1.0 Transitional is the equivalent of HTML 4.01 Transitional, and
    > includes the presentational elements (such as center, font and strike)
    > excluded from the strict version."
    >
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XHTML


    I am afraid equivalent here means similar not identical.

    equals instead of ==

    http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#diffs

    lists differences.

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, Jul 10, 2009
    #11
  12. Ion Freeman

    markspace Guest

    Re: Loading a simple XHTML transitional document into a org.w3c.dom.Document

    Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    >
    > I am afraid equivalent here means similar not identical.
    >
    > equals instead of ==
    >
    > http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#diffs
    >
    > lists differences.


    Ah, OK, thanks for that link. I thought the two had converged. Not
    completely I see.
     
    markspace, Jul 10, 2009
    #12
  13. Ion Freeman

    Tom Anderson Guest

    On Thu, 9 Jul 2009, markspace wrote:

    > Arne Vajh?j wrote:
    >
    >> I am afraid equivalent here means similar not identical.
    >>
    >> equals instead of ==
    >>
    >> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#diffs
    >>
    >> lists differences.

    >
    > Ah, OK, thanks for that link. I thought the two had converged. Not
    > completely I see.


    Theye haven't, and they won't.

    HTML is SGML (kinda), and XHTML is XML, and despite what some have
    claimed, XML is not a subset of SGML. As a minor but concrete example, the
    form "<br/>" means something completely different in XML and SGML - in
    XML, it's an empty br element, and in SGML, it's a 'null-end-tag-enabling
    start tag' - the slash acts as the end of the tag, with the element
    containing all the next until the next slash. So this:

    <br/>I am a huge fan of AC/DC/

    Means a br element containing the text ">I am a huge fan of AC" in SGML,
    followed by the text "DC/".

    It is possible to write text which is both valid XHTML and valid HTML, but
    it takes quite a lot of effort, and i think it means you can't use certain
    constructs at all. Are you allowed to write <a></a> for an element which
    is declared as being EMPTY in XML? Happily, since nobody on the planet
    actually cares if HTML is syntactically valid, you can just write XHTML
    and feed it to browsers with an HTML content-type and they'll mostly
    happily scarf it down.

    tom

    --
    resistance is fertile
     
    Tom Anderson, Jul 10, 2009
    #13
  14. Ion Freeman

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    Re: Loading a simple XHTML transitional document into a org.w3c.dom.Document

    markspace wrote:
    > Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    >> I am afraid equivalent here means similar not identical.
    >>
    >> equals instead of ==
    >>
    >> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#diffs
    >>
    >> lists differences.

    >
    > Ah, OK, thanks for that link. I thought the two had converged. Not
    > completely I see.


    They did their best.

    But HTML 4.01 had to be HTML compatible and that also mean
    non-XML compatible in some cases.

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, Jul 11, 2009
    #14
  15. Ion Freeman

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    Re: Loading a simple XHTML transitional document into a org.w3c.dom.Document

    Tom Anderson wrote:
    > On Thu, 9 Jul 2009, markspace wrote:
    >> Arne Vajh?j wrote:
    >>> I am afraid equivalent here means similar not identical.
    >>>
    >>> equals instead of ==
    >>>
    >>> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#diffs
    >>>
    >>> lists differences.

    >>
    >> Ah, OK, thanks for that link. I thought the two had converged. Not
    >> completely I see.

    >
    > Theye haven't, and they won't.
    >
    > HTML is SGML (kinda),


    It is. Valid HTML can be parsed by an SGML parser.

    > and XHTML is XML, and despite what some have
    > claimed, XML is not a subset of SGML.


    some ?

    You mean like in the first few lines of the XML specification ?

    http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-xml-20081126/

    <quote>
    Abstract

    The Extensible Markup Language (XML) is a subset of SGML that is
    completely described in this document. Its goal is to
    </quote>

    > As a minor but concrete example,
    > the form "<br/>" means something completely different in XML and SGML -
    > in XML, it's an empty br element, and in SGML, it's a
    > 'null-end-tag-enabling start tag' - the slash acts as the end of the
    > tag, with the element containing all the next until the next slash.


    It has one meaning in HTML and another meaning in XML.

    I believe that different SGML applications can enable/disable
    various SGML features.

    > It is possible to write text which is both valid XHTML and valid HTML,
    > but it takes quite a lot of effort, and i think it means you can't use
    > certain constructs at all.


    Yep.

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, Jul 11, 2009
    #15
  16. Ion Freeman

    Tom Anderson Guest

    On Fri, 10 Jul 2009, Arne Vajh?j wrote:

    > Tom Anderson wrote:
    >> On Thu, 9 Jul 2009, markspace wrote:
    >>> Arne Vajh?j wrote:
    >>>> I am afraid equivalent here means similar not identical.
    >>>>
    >>>> equals instead of ==
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#diffs
    >>>>
    >>>> lists differences.
    >>>
    >>> Ah, OK, thanks for that link. I thought the two had converged. Not
    >>> completely I see.

    >>
    >> Theye haven't, and they won't.
    >>
    >> HTML is SGML (kinda),

    >
    > It is. Valid HTML can be parsed by an SGML parser.


    Oh, well if you're talking about *valid* HTML, that's an entirely
    different beast!

    It's worth noting that HTML 5 will not be SGML:

    http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html

    >> and XHTML is XML, and despite what some have
    >> claimed, XML is not a subset of SGML.

    >
    > some ?
    >
    > You mean like in the first few lines of the XML specification ?
    >
    > http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-xml-20081126/
    >
    > <quote>
    > Abstract
    >
    > The Extensible Markup Language (XML) is a subset of SGML that is completely
    > described in this document. Its goal is to
    > </quote>


    A very good example. Despite being in the spec, this is a lie.

    >> As a minor but concrete example, the
    >> form "<br/>" means something completely different in XML and SGML - in XML,
    >> it's an empty br element, and in SGML, it's a 'null-end-tag-enabling start
    >> tag' - the slash acts as the end of the tag, with the element containing
    >> all the next until the next slash.

    >
    > It has one meaning in HTML and another meaning in XML.
    >
    > I believe that different SGML applications can enable/disable various
    > SGML features.


    True. I am by no means an SGML expert, but i think HTML leaves the
    SHORTTAG features on:

    http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/sgml/sgmldecl.html

    And that means the NET-enabling start tags are, formally, operational in
    HTML, unless disabled by an internal subset in the document, which i've
    never seen.

    tom

    --
    SOY! SOY! SOY! Soy makes you strong! Strength crushes enemies! SOY!
     
    Tom Anderson, Jul 11, 2009
    #16
  17. Ion Freeman

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    Re: Loading a simple XHTML transitional document into a org.w3c.dom.Document

    Tom Anderson wrote:
    > On Fri, 10 Jul 2009, Arne Vajh?j wrote:
    >
    >> Tom Anderson wrote:
    >>> On Thu, 9 Jul 2009, markspace wrote:
    >>>> Arne Vajh?j wrote:
    >>>>> I am afraid equivalent here means similar not identical.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> equals instead of ==
    >>>>>
    >>>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#diffs
    >>>>>
    >>>>> lists differences.
    >>>>
    >>>> Ah, OK, thanks for that link. I thought the two had converged. Not
    >>>> completely I see.
    >>>
    >>> Theye haven't, and they won't.
    >>>
    >>> HTML is SGML (kinda),

    >>
    >> It is. Valid HTML can be parsed by an SGML parser.

    >
    > Oh, well if you're talking about *valid* HTML, that's an entirely
    > different beast!
    >
    > It's worth noting that HTML 5 will not be SGML:
    >
    > http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html


    Interesting.

    HTML 5 parsers will be from scratch then.

    >>> and XHTML is XML, and despite what some have
    >>> claimed, XML is not a subset of SGML.

    >>
    >> some ?
    >>
    >> You mean like in the first few lines of the XML specification ?
    >>
    >> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-xml-20081126/
    >>
    >> <quote>
    >> Abstract
    >>
    >> The Extensible Markup Language (XML) is a subset of SGML that is
    >> completely described in this document. Its goal is to
    >> </quote>

    >
    > A very good example. Despite being in the spec, this is a lie.


    The XML specification lying about what XML is ????

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, Jul 11, 2009
    #17
  18. Ion Freeman

    Tom Anderson Guest

    On Sat, 11 Jul 2009, Arne Vajh?j wrote:

    > Tom Anderson wrote:
    >> On Fri, 10 Jul 2009, Arne Vajh?j wrote:
    >>
    >>> Tom Anderson wrote:

    >>
    >> It's worth noting that HTML 5 will not be SGML:
    >>
    >> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html

    >
    > Interesting.
    >
    > HTML 5 parsers will be from scratch then.


    No, since no current browser parses HTML using an SGML parser. They're all
    handwritten anyway. AIUI, the only SGML-based HTML parsers in production
    are the online validators!

    >>>> and XHTML is XML, and despite what some have
    >>>> claimed, XML is not a subset of SGML.
    >>>
    >>> some ?
    >>>
    >>> You mean like in the first few lines of the XML specification ?
    >>>
    >>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-xml-20081126/
    >>>
    >>> <quote>
    >>> Abstract
    >>>
    >>> The Extensible Markup Language (XML) is a subset of SGML that is
    >>> completely described in this document. Its goal is to
    >>> </quote>

    >>
    >> A very good example. Despite being in the spec, this is a lie.

    >
    > The XML specification lying about what XML is ????


    Correct.

    Unless <foo/> can be a legal way of writing an empty foo element
    (including when foo is declared with a content model other than EMPTY) in
    SGML, which i don't believe it can.

    I think SGML also doesn't allow colons in names, which XML does. BICBW.

    There is a thing called Web SGML, which is a slightly modified version of
    SGML which i think *is* a superset of XML. But basically, that was
    invented so that XML could be retrofitted into the SGML framework; it's
    not 'proper' SGML.

    I find this stuff hard to get my head round because SGML is that it's far
    more customisable than XML - as well as the DTD, there's an 'SGML
    declaration', which can do things like define what character is used to
    mark the start of tags (hardwired to < in XML) and so on. This is very
    powerful, but ludicrously complex. It can in fact be used to alter SGML to
    the point that it gets very close to XML - and Web SGML enables it to go
    the remainder of the distance.

    tom

    --
    For me, thats just logic. OTOH, Spock went bananas several times using
    logic. -- Pete, mfw
     
    Tom Anderson, Jul 11, 2009
    #18
    1. Advertising

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