malloc + 4??

[Dik T. Winter]

>
> In French, this usage of billion is considered an archaism. The current
> meaning is 1e12, like in the rest of Europe.

Since 1948. And before 1700 or something like that. In between it was
1e9 in France. The terms come all in all their meanings from French.
That they botched it is the problem.

 

[Dik T. Winter]

> It's just that milliard doesn't seem to roll off the tongue that well. I
> don't believe I've heard it in conversation.

It rolls off perfectly well. I hear it nearly daily when cuts in the
national budget are announced.

 

[Richard Heathfield]

It's just that milliard doesn't seem to roll off the tongue that well. I
don't believe I've heard it in conversation.

That's only because you hang out with the wrong kind of people.

 

[Richard Bos]

Last time I counted that high 42 bits could describe +- 2e12,
which seems capable of describing most varieties of billion known
to me.

Erm... yes, of course, you're right.

Richard

 

[Richard Bos]

Unfortunately, in international discussion, the trend seems to be favour
American forms if at least one American is present. A safe rule of thumb
is "except for political issues, international means American".

Alas, these days, that rule of thumb is extremely unsafe _particularly_
for political issues :-(

Richard

 

[Dan Pop]

It's more an issue of pragmatism: the word milliard doesn't exist in
American English, so they use whatever they have.

It's just that milliard doesn't seem to roll off the tongue that well. I
don't believe I've heard it in conversation.

According to the online M-W, the word only exists in British English.

Apparently, the word started its existence meaning "a very large number".
The Americans decided that 1000 millions is large enough to qualify, while
the Europeans were more conservative.

Dan

 

[Joona I Palaste]

It's more an issue of pragmatism: the word milliard doesn't exist in
American English, so they use whatever they have.

According to the online M-W, the word only exists in British English.

Apparently, the word started its existence meaning "a very large number".
The Americans decided that 1000 millions is large enough to qualify, while
the Europeans were more conservative.

But how does this explain the fact that Europeans use "billion" in the
wrong way too?

 

[Mark McIntyre]

But how does this explain the fact that Europeans use "billion" in the
wrong way too?

Because we caught the disease from the yanks during WW2 and just after, and
the condition became terminal when the NYSE became the worlds largest money
laundering agency. But don't take my word for it, I only work in capital
markets banking.....

 

[Joe Wright]

But how does this explain the fact that Europeans use "billion" in the
wrong way too?

But this could be important. That Bill Gates is worth $ 0.047 billion
just doesn't have the same 'punch' to it.

 

[Dan Pop]

But how does this explain the fact that Europeans use "billion" in the
wrong way too?

If they do it when discussing with Americans, the explanation should be
obvious: if your intent is to communicate with your partner, you must use
a language he understands (as any bridge player *should* know).

If they do it between themselves, ignorance doesn't need any further
explanation.

Dan

 

[Joona I Palaste]

If they do it when discussing with Americans, the explanation should be
obvious: if your intent is to communicate with your partner, you must use
a language he understands (as any bridge player *should* know).

Why is it always the Europeans who have to pander to the Americans and
never the other way around?

 

[Neil Cerutti]

Why is it always the Europeans who have to pander to the
Americans and never the other way around?

Because if you don't we'll take our soccer ball and go home.

 

[Joona I Palaste]

Because if you don't we'll take our soccer ball and go home.

As long as you keep your hands off our petanque balls, be my guest.

--
/-- Joona Palaste ([email protected]) ------------- Finland --------\
\-- http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste --------------------- rules! --------/
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside a dog, it's too dark
to read anyway."
- Groucho Marx

 

[Dan Pop]

Why is it always the Europeans who have to pander to the Americans and
never the other way around?

Because the (average) European is supposed to be able to figure out
the difference between the European billion and the American billion,
while the (average) American isn't. I'm not saying this to belittle
the Americans, but multiculturality is a far more common concept in
Europe (and especially continental Europe) than in America. See the
discussion about the American audience of Asterix.

So, it boils down to whether you want to communicate with your partner or
you want to deliberately confuse/misled him. Also note that the European
billion is too big to be of much practical use and even when it could be
used, the European mass media prefer "thousand of milliards" instead. So,
in real life communication, it is only the American billion that gets
actually used.

Is "pragmatism" a concept beyond your grasp?

Dan

 

[Neil Cerutti]

As long as you keep your hands off our petanque balls, be my
guest.

Heh. ;-)

 

[Stephen Sprunk]

It's just that milliard doesn't seem to roll off the tongue that well. I
don't believe I've heard it in conversation.

Sure it does -- in French

It seems to me we Americans got it wrong -- a million millions should be a
billion. In that system, the -illion number can be trivially determined by
dividing the base-10 log of a number by six. In the American usage, you
have to divide the base-10 log by three and subtract one.

Since I speak both French and US English, this drives me nuts; I never even
thought to ask what British (or other non-US) English speakers used. This
strikes me as rather similar to the mixed use of 12- and 24-hour time in
English depending on the locale.

S

 

[Joona I Palaste]

Sure it does -- in French

It seems to me we Americans got it wrong -- a million millions should be a
billion. In that system, the -illion number can be trivially determined by
dividing the base-10 log of a number by six. In the American usage, you
have to divide the base-10 log by three and subtract one.

Since I speak both French and US English, this drives me nuts; I never even
thought to ask what British (or other non-US) English speakers used. This
strikes me as rather similar to the mixed use of 12- and 24-hour time in
English depending on the locale.

I have to agree, but as Dan Pop said, Americans are used to everyone
doing things their way, while Europeans are used to prepare to do things
in other ways, so it's unlikely Americans will ever change to the more
logical system. More probably Europeans will change to the less logical
system, as importance of getting understood overweighs importance of
doing things right. This applies to pretty much any other cultural
difference between Americans and Europeans, too.

 

[Stephen Sprunk]

Why is it always the Europeans who have to pander to the Americans and
never the other way around?

As an American who speaks four languages and has travelled internationally,
I try to be sensitive to such things, but it just doesn't come naturally to
us. I see three reasons why -- meant as explanation, not justification:

1. IMHO, you can't understand how other cultures differ until you speak a
second language. The US is virtually the only place on earth you can life
your entire without consistently running into other languages, due to its
relatively homogenous culture, large population, and isolated geography.

2. English, both the American and British forms, has completely replaced
French (and further back, Latin) as the lingua franca of international
communications, especially in commerce. This reinforces reason 1 because
Americans are thus under no pressure to learn another language.

3. The US is one of a handful of countries with a media industry large
enough to export its culture (books, movies, TV, etc). It's often joked
that the US's only significant export is its culture, while it imports
everything else.

S

 

[Joona I Palaste]

As an American who speaks four languages and has travelled internationally,
I try to be sensitive to such things, but it just doesn't come naturally to
us. I see three reasons why -- meant as explanation, not justification:

1. IMHO, you can't understand how other cultures differ until you speak a
second language. The US is virtually the only place on earth you can life
your entire without consistently running into other languages, due to its
relatively homogenous culture, large population, and isolated geography.

2. English, both the American and British forms, has completely replaced
French (and further back, Latin) as the lingua franca of international
communications, especially in commerce. This reinforces reason 1 because
Americans are thus under no pressure to learn another language.

3. The US is one of a handful of countries with a media industry large
enough to export its culture (books, movies, TV, etc). It's often joked
that the US's only significant export is its culture, while it imports
everything else.

I think #2 is (at least partly) the result of #3. The American
commercial influence over the rest of the world was just too strong for
any other language than English to hold up.
Anyway, I agree to all three points, and I'm glad you're not using them
as justification. (IOW, you don't think that "might makes right", unlike
some Americans I know (none of them are from this newsgroup), who I
decline to name.)
What can be done about it? Diddly-squat, I'm afraid. The only possible
remedy would be to re-colonise North America, this time with more than
one nationality, but there's a snowball's chance in hell of that,
especially with the US having the world's largest military army.

 

[CBFalconer]

.... snip ...

If they do it when discussing with Americans, the explanation
should be obvious: if your intent is to communicate with your
partner, you must use a language he understands (as any bridge
player *should* know).

Failures there can become _very_ expensive, as any club player (as
opposed to duplicate) can attest. Why do these idiots always cut
ME as their partner :-( Then they cut out of the game before I
have had a chance to take suitable advantage of them :-((