Mozilla and Netscape

Discussion in 'Javascript' started by News, Feb 6, 2006.

  1. News

    News Guest

    I have a page up trying to learn how to ID a browser and other info.

    http://wyght.com/warren/testPos.html

    here is the code


    <script type = "text/javascript">
    var space = ", ";
    var name = navigator.appName;
    var codename = navigator.appCodeName;
    var version = navigator.appVersion.substring(0,4);
    var platform = navigator.platform;
    var MyjavaEnabled = navigator.javaEnabled();
    var screenWidth = screen.width;
    var screenHeight = screen.height;

    document.writeln("<BR>"+name+space+codename+space+"<BR>");
    document.writeln("<BR>"+version+space+platform+space+"<BR>");
    document.writeln("<BR>"+MyjavaEnabled+"<BR>"+screenWidth+space+"<BR>");
    document.writeln("<BR>"+screenHeight+space+"<BR>");
    </script>

    I can see no way of knowing if it is a firefox or netscape browser is that
    posible?

    Also, when I print out the var "codename" in IE 6 it says Mozilla. What is
    up with that?

    --

    Totus possum, totum Deum.
    Totus ero, totum meum.
    WSW
     
    News, Feb 6, 2006
    #1
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  2. News wrote:

    > I have a page up trying to learn how to ID a browser and other info.


    Except for (not very accurate) statistical gathering purposes, this
    information shouldn't be of any practical use to you. If you are planning
    to branch JavaScript based on what different browsers are capable of, then
    you should look at the much more reliable object detection.
    http://www.quirksmode.org/js/support.html

    > I can see no way of knowing if it is a firefox or netscape browser is that
    > posible?


    Not reliably. These days there is little to choose between them anyway.

    > Also, when I print out the var "codename" in IE 6 it says Mozilla. What is
    > up with that?


    Netscape had better JavaScript support then IE. People wrote scripts to
    detect this. Microsoft brought out a new version of IE with better
    JavaScript support and stuck Mozilla in the agent string so that those
    scripts wouldn't ignore IE.

    --
    David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
    Home is where the ~/.bashrc is
     
    David Dorward, Feb 6, 2006
    #2
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  3. News

    Randy Webb Guest

    News said the following on 2/6/2006 4:59 PM:
    > I have a page up trying to learn how to ID a browser and other info.


    Unless it is a purely academical exercise it is a waste of time.

    > http://wyght.com/warren/testPos.html


    Error:
    BrowserInfo is undefined


    > here is the code


    That is not the code you have on the page you gave the URL to.

    >
    > <script type = "text/javascript">
    > var space = ", ";
    > var name = navigator.appName;
    > var codename = navigator.appCodeName;
    > var version = navigator.appVersion.substring(0,4);
    > var platform = navigator.platform;
    > var MyjavaEnabled = navigator.javaEnabled();
    > var screenWidth = screen.width;
    > var screenHeight = screen.height;
    >
    > document.writeln("<BR>"+name+space+codename+space+"<BR>");
    > document.writeln("<BR>"+version+space+platform+space+"<BR>");
    > document.writeln("<BR>"+MyjavaEnabled+"<BR>"+screenWidth+space+"<BR>");
    > document.writeln("<BR>"+screenHeight+space+"<BR>");
    > </script>
    >
    > I can see no way of knowing if it is a firefox or netscape browser is that
    > posible?


    Probably not but it shouldn't matter unless this is a purely academical
    exercise.

    > Also, when I print out the var "codename" in IE 6 it says Mozilla. What is
    > up with that?


    It's for people who mistakenly think that anything in the navigator
    object means anything and that includes Thomas Lahn. It's useless for
    anything but an academic exercise.

    For what it's worth, this is what one of my browsers gives for that code:

    Netscape, Mozilla,
    5.0 , Win32,

    What browser is it?
    --
    Randy
    comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq & newsgroup weekly
    Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/
     
    Randy Webb, Feb 6, 2006
    #3
  4. News

    News Guest

    "David Dorward" <> wrote in message
    news:ds8ib5$k0b$1$...
    > News wrote:
    >
    >> I have a page up trying to learn how to ID a browser and other info.

    >
    > Except for (not very accurate) statistical gathering purposes, this
    > information shouldn't be of any practical use to you. If you are planning
    > to branch JavaScript based on what different browsers are capable of, then
    > you should look at the much more reliable object detection.
    > http://www.quirksmode.org/js/support.html
    >
    >> I can see no way of knowing if it is a firefox or netscape browser is
    >> that
    >> posible?

    >
    > Not reliably. These days there is little to choose between them anyway.
    >
    >> Also, when I print out the var "codename" in IE 6 it says Mozilla. What
    >> is
    >> up with that?

    >
    > Netscape had better JavaScript support then IE. People wrote scripts to
    > detect this. Microsoft brought out a new version of IE with better
    > JavaScript support and stuck Mozilla in the agent string so that those
    > scripts wouldn't ignore IE.
    >
    > --
    > David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
    > Home is where the ~/.bashrc is


    Thanks that URL was helpful


    Totus possum, totum Deum.
    Totus ero, totum meum.
    WSW
     
    News, Feb 7, 2006
    #4
  5. David Dorward wrote:

    > News wrote:
    >> Also, when I print out the var "codename" in IE 6 it says Mozilla. What
    >> is up with that?

    >
    > Netscape had better JavaScript support then IE.


    That is an interesting (false) statement, considering that IE has no
    JavaScript support at all and it never had (IE supports and supported
    JScript and VBScript). Maybe you meant to say that Netscape had better
    ways for scripting HTML documents, while you would be confusing
    programming language and AOM/DOM (unfortunately a mistake Netscape made
    too until JavaScript 1.3).


    PointedEars
     
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn, Feb 7, 2006
    #5
  6. News

    VK Guest

    News wrote:
    > Also, when I print out the var "codename" in IE 6 it says Mozilla. What is
    > up with that?


    In the beginning Tim Berners-Lee created the Web and HTTP

    Then National Center for Supercomputing Applications (NSCA) created the
    first GUI browser called NSCA Mosaic. And it was good ans so lasted
    many years.

    Then Netscape, Inc. created a much more powerful version and called it
    "Mozilla". What was a play around the word "Mosaic" => "Mosaic" +
    "Godzilla", thus Mosaic but having obtained the power of Godzilla. They
    even created a logo with a funny little dragon.

    But browser production appreared to be a very profitable no-fun
    business so the next version has been already called very seriously
    "Netscape Navigator". At the same time "Mozilla" has been left in the
    browser ID string (which finally become a property of the navigator
    object).

    So deeply and truly each GUI browser is Mozilla, *including* IE. In
    Help > About it still says: "Based on NCSA Mosaic."

    Currently "Mozilla" word in userAgent string became equivalent of the
    cross sign at the beginning of mediaeval manuscripts :) It just shows
    that authors of this particular browser remember and respect their
    great ancestors.

    Besides that "Mozilla" in userAgent doesn't contain any technical info;
    it doesn't indicate anyhow to the current relation with Mozilla
    Foundation <http://www.mozilla.org>
     
    VK, Feb 7, 2006
    #6
  7. VK wrote:

    > News wrote:
    >> Also, when I print out the var "codename" in IE 6 it says Mozilla.
    >> What is up with that?

    >
    > In the beginning Tim Berners-Lee created the Web and HTTP


    And I thought that in the beginning was the word.
    And the word was text/plain.[1] :)

    > Then National Center for Supercomputing Applications (NSCA) created the
    > first GUI browser called NSCA Mosaic. And it was good ans so lasted
    > many years.


    So far, so good.

    > Then Netscape, Inc. created a much more powerful version and called it
    > "Mozilla". What was a play around the word "Mosaic" => "Mosaic" +
    > "Godzilla", thus Mosaic but having obtained the power of Godzilla. They
    > even created a logo with a funny little dragon.
    >
    > But browser production appreared to be a very profitable no-fun
    > business so the next version has been already called very seriously
    > "Netscape Navigator". At the same time "Mozilla" has been left in the
    > browser ID string (which finally become a property of the navigator
    > object).


    Wrong as it is. The (internal) _codename_ of Netscape's Web browser,
    Netscape Navigator (and later, the Netscape Communicator suite) was
    Mozilla (for the reasons you mentioned) ever since.

    <URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netscape_Navigator>

    Hence the logo, navigator.userAgent and later the name of the (non-profit)
    Mozilla Organization (an Open Source community with Netscape support) which
    took over development of the Mozilla codebase when Netscape decided (due to
    the no longer maintainable codebase produced to far) to make the Mozilla
    code Open Source (resulting in releasing NN versions 6.x and 7.x as
    Netscape Gecko-based, parallel to Mozilla Suite releases from mozilla.org).

    Shortly after the merger with (or rather hostile takeover by) AOL/TW,
    the Netscape browser division was shut down, and what was the Mozilla
    Organization with many payed Netscape employees became the Mozilla
    Foundation <URL:http://www.mozilla.org/> (still non-profit) led by the
    hard core of ex-Netscapers. (Current Netscape browser versions [8+]
    are developed by Mercurial Communications for AOL/TW and are based on
    Mozilla Firefox.)

    <URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netscape>

    Recently, with the release of Firefox 1.5, the Mozilla Foundation
    produced a (commercial) subsidiary named Mozilla Corporation
    (<URL:http://www.mozilla.com/>) to "[oversee] the development and
    distribution of Mozilla technologies and products, including the
    popular and award-winning Firefox Web browser and Thunderbird email
    client."


    PointedEars
    ___________
    [1] <URL:http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1.txt>
     
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn, Feb 7, 2006
    #7
  8. News

    VK Guest

    > VK wrote:
    > > Then National Center for Supercomputing Applications (NSCA) created the
    > > first GUI browser called NSCA Mosaic. And it was good ans so lasted
    > > many years.


    > Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
    > So far, so good.


    Actually not as good as it should. I did not mention other GUI web
    browsers created mainly in different universities, some of which were
    rather good for that time. The history did not preserve their names but
    they were :) I may look in old brochures for details. So NSCA Mosaic
    was *not* the first GUI browser, but it was the *first milestone* in
    web-browsers evolution. Browsing history, bookmark collection, link
    underlining (still optional) etc. etc.

    The rest can go by your text. I see your variant is more Mozilla
    Foundation - centric imitating a "corporate success history" article
    style :)
    I don't see a reason to make it bitter though.
     
    VK, Feb 7, 2006
    #8
  9. VK wrote:

    >> VK wrote:
    >> > Then National Center for Supercomputing Applications (NSCA) created the
    >> > first GUI browser called NSCA Mosaic. And it was good ans so lasted
    >> > many years.

    >
    >> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:


    Learn to quote. NOW.

    >> So far, so good.

    >
    > [...]
    > The rest can go by your text. I see your variant is more Mozilla
    > Foundation - centric imitating a "corporate success history" article
    > style :)
    > I don't see a reason to make it bitter though.


    If you think it was, so be it. I have no problem pointing out that despite
    all obstacles the Mozilla project is still going strong -- I welcome that.

    However, this section of my article was rather intended to point out the
    connection between Netscape, Mozilla and the Mozilla Organization /
    Foundation / Corporation which you told it did not exist.


    PointedEars
     
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn, Feb 7, 2006
    #9
  10. News

    Randy Webb Guest

    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn said the following on 2/7/2006 2:24 AM:
    > David Dorward wrote:
    >
    >> News wrote:
    >>> Also, when I print out the var "codename" in IE 6 it says Mozilla. What
    >>> is up with that?

    >> Netscape had better JavaScript support then IE.

    >
    > That is an interesting (false) statement, considering that IE has no
    > JavaScript support at all and it never had (IE supports and supported
    > JScript and VBScript).


    Then how can the statement be false? It reads, with your pedantic
    interpretation, as something along the lines of:

    Netscape had better JavaScript support than a browser that didn't have
    JavaScript support.

    And that statement is *true*.

    But, just to pedant your pedant, MS used the term JScript as its
    "Javascript implementation" because NS had a bitch fit about MS using
    its name.

    > Maybe you meant to say that Netscape had better
    > ways for scripting HTML documents, while you would be confusing
    > programming language and AOM/DOM (unfortunately a mistake Netscape made
    > too until JavaScript 1.3).


    No, He probably meant to say exactly what he said and in your desire to
    be pedantically correct you inserted your foot into your mouth.

    --
    Randy
    comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq & newsgroup weekly
    Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/
     
    Randy Webb, Feb 7, 2006
    #10
  11. News

    Randy Webb Guest

    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn said the following on 2/7/2006 12:46 PM:
    > VK wrote:
    >
    >>> VK wrote:
    >>>> Then National Center for Supercomputing Applications (NSCA) created the
    >>>> first GUI browser called NSCA Mosaic. And it was good ans so lasted
    >>>> many years.
    >>> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

    >
    > Learn to quote. NOW.


    Are you associated with the National Organization for Women or do you
    think that typing in CAPS makes you more dominating?

    --
    Randy
    comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq & newsgroup weekly
    Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/
     
    Randy Webb, Feb 7, 2006
    #11
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