New window using css

[Webcastmaker]

trying to annoy your visitors as little as possible is common sense, not
a philosophy.

Using all text and images is annoying to some. How do we deal with
them? Do people that like Flashy things (no pun intended) not
matter?

 

[Webcastmaker]

No, there isn't.

Fine Karl, I am not going to get into an argument about it. We have
different a different view. Gee go figure different view points on
usenet.

 

[Karl Groves]

Fine Karl, I am not going to get into an argument about it. We have
different a different view. Gee go figure different view points on
usenet.

Here's a direct cut & paste from an e-mail I received from a friend at
Dartmouth:
I have been doing some usability testing for a local hospital and we have
been fortunate to have participants with no familiarity with the web all the
way to self-described experts. We tested pages where external links opened
in a new window and pages where external links opened in the same window.
Nobody had trouble navigating when links opened in the same window. Many
people had trouble navigating when links opened in a new window.


Here are some other observations from these sessions:

-Most everyone used the back button to navigate the site and not the site
navigation links.

-Many people didn't notice when a new window opened, even when the page
explicitly indicated that links would open in a new window.

-Many people were unable to get back to the main site when a new window
opened because the back button did not work.



I have long thought that people get disoriented when following links and
that I, as the designer, had to build in ways to help people keep their
bearings. So I've done the javascript popups and the target="whatever". But
from watching people work with the web I am starting to think that people
don't really notice when they go from one site to another, and that they
also don't really care. They are questing for information and don't much
care where they get it. The damage done by trying to be helpful and impose
"context" is much greater than that done by leaving people to make their own
way.



The browser allows people to open links in a new window, as it allows then
to control type size and window width. I think this is another one of those
instances where we need to let go and give control to users.



[Name Protected],

Dartmouth College

 

[rf]

Karl Groves wrote

The browser allows people to open links in a new window, as it allows then
to control type size and window width. I think this is another one of those
instances where we need to let go and give control to users.

Back. Give control *back* to the users.

The users had the control, until somebody used the target attribute and
removed one of their two options: to open a page in the same window or to
open a page in a new window. The target attribute [usually] removes the
first option.

All pages start out life totally accessible and totally usable. Authors work
hard to reduce these qualities.

 

[brucie]

in post: <

Using all text and images is annoying to some.

it doesn't matter what you do you'll annoy someone. the key is not to
annoy people needlessly or annoy people who own guns.

i cant ever recall someone complaining about a new window not opening
possibly because its so easy for the person to do so for themselves.
opening a new window for the visitor is needlessly annoying.

 

[Webcastmaker]

Here's a direct cut & paste from an e-mail I received from a friend at
Dartmouth:

You just can't leave it be can you? You want to start an argument.
Grow up troll

 

[brucie]

in post: <

The only thing we disagree on is that I believe each web site is
different, you don't.

i don't?

 

[Webcastmaker]

it doesn't matter what you do you'll annoy someone. the key is not to
annoy people needlessly or annoy people who own guns.

The only thing we disagree on is that I believe each web site is
different, you don't. Not really a big deal either way.

i cant ever recall someone complaining about a new window not opening
possibly because its so easy for the person to do so for themselves.

You can't arguing a negative.

 

[rf]

You just can't leave it be can you? You want to start an argument.
Grow up troll

Straw man argument alert!

 

[Webcastmaker]

i don't?

Well apparently not if you think they must all be accessible to 100%
of the visitors. But why get into it? A complete waste of time and
it will never head anywhere the forum has not been a million times
before.

 

[Karl Groves]

You just can't leave it be can you? You want to start an argument.
Grow up troll

You're right. I can't leave it be. Because the last thing the Web needs is
some poor shmuck getting misguided advice from someone like you.
There's enough bad advice going around without you adding to it.

-Karl

 

[Webcastmaker]

Straw man argument alert!

If it is a straw man argument to not want to get into a boring
argument that has been rehashed a million times already in this
forum, then so be it, it is a straw man argument. Can we move on
now, or do you also want to needlessly waste bandwidth too?

 

[Eric B. Bednarz]

it doesn't matter what you do you'll annoy someone.
Right.

the key is not to [...] annoy people who own guns.

You have a point there.

i cant ever recall someone complaining about a new window not opening

Actually I can, even frequently. It sucks donkey dick if you convince
&employer; in your spare time to drop those neat cute little interface
pollution ideas and in return lusers actually complain about it.

I positively *do* know lots of people who *expect* 'remote' links to
open in a new window (they close the application otherwise and wonder
where the Internet has gone).

The point is not that you need to meet those ill expectations; the point
is, though, most of us need to carry bigger guns.

 

[rf]

If it is a straw man argument

No, I refers to your final statement: If you can not win the argument then
start personally attacking the opponent.

to not want to get into a boring

It's boring only because you are losing.

argument that has been rehashed a million times already in this
forum,

Yes, because people come in here and insist that opening new windows is a
good thing. It might be in some specialized cases but not in general.

Can we move on now

You are the one hanging around

or do you also want to needlessly waste bandwidth too?

Hmmm, almost strawman Besides, you don't have to download these
messages. Nobody is *forcing* you, unlike you who want to *force* a new
window on people.

I know what, Lets take a poll:

Hands up all those who think that using the target attribute to restrict the
viewer to *always* opening a link in a new window is a good thing...

And against: those for giving the viewer a Choice in the matter...

<aol>me to</aol>

 

[Webcastmaker]

No, I refers to your final statement: If you can not win the argument then
start personally attacking the opponent.

fine rf, have fun arguing.

 

[Brendan Taylor]

No, I refers to your final statement: If you can not win the argument then
start personally attacking the opponent.

I agree with you completely (why take choice away from the user?), but
<nitpick>a strawman is when you attack an easily defeated caricature of
somebody's argument. You're thinking of ad hominem</nitpick>

 

[Kris]

I just want to know who the Coding Cops are, and if you're one of them.

I know where you live.