Newbie

[Echo Weep]

I would like to begin this post by stating that it is my first usenet
post. I wish to learn C and thought that this would be a good place to
start. I have minimal programming experience and am interesting in
learning C as my first language. There are numerous reasons I wish to
learn C however the two main reasons are; I am using a unix based
operating system and two I want to learn a relatively low level/mid level
language (as I believe I will end up learning more). I already know a
little bit (very minimal) including the basics of pointers, arrays,data
types etc..

If anyone could point me in the right direction it would be most
appreciated

Sincerely

Echo

P.S sorry for the badly written post (its 12 am in Toronto and i have
school tomorrow)

btw what age did most of you start learning to program?

 

[Guest]

I would like to begin this post by stating that it is my first usenet
post.

And a good first post it is too.

I wish to learn C and thought that this would be a good place to
start. I have minimal programming experience and am interesting in
learning C as my first language. There are numerous reasons I wish to
learn C however the two main reasons are; I am using a unix based
operating system and two I want to learn a relatively low level/mid level
language (as I believe I will end up learning more). I already know a
little bit (very minimal) including the basics of pointers, arrays,data
types etc..

If anyone could point me in the right direction it would be most
appreciated

Get hold of the book "The C Programming Language" by Kerighan and
Richie.
Read it and do the excercises as you go along. If you hit problems
post
your questions here. If you need model answers look here
http://clc-wiki.net/wiki/K&R2_solutions

I'm afraid most online tutorials for C are poor. Other people may be
able
to point you to the few that are good.

Once you have the basics of C check out the comp.lang.c Frequently
Asked Questions (the FAQ). http://c-faq.com/

P.S sorry for the badly written post (its 12 am in Toronto and i have
school tomorrow)

It reads fine to me

btw what age did most of you start learning to program?

I come from the age before ubiqitous computers. I learned
as soon as I could.



Happy Programming!


--
Nick Keighley

A good designer must rely on experience, on precise, logic thinking;
and on pedantic exactness. No magic will do.
(Wirth)

 

[James Kuyper]

Echo Weep wrote:
....

btw what age did most of you start learning to program?

I started learning to program when I was 16, about 1975, which was
rather uncommonly early in the days before PCs in high schools became
commonplace. An alumnus from our high school had donated an IBM 1620(?)
computer (which was already long obsolete at that time) to my high
school. It was about the size of a large desk. It had 20K(!) of magnetic
core RAM, and no hard disk or video display. It came with teleterminal,
a punched card reader, a card punch, and a card sorter. It used a
look-up table that had to be loaded from the card reader to perform
decimal arithmetic, and a deck of about 300 cards that could be used to
load the executable form of a Fortran I(sic) compiler and start it
running. I don't think it had anything that I would now recognize as an
operating system.

I dreamed of owning my own a computer system with much more advanced
capabilities. I don't claim that I imagined anything like the
capabilities of the system I'm currently using on my desktop, but it
wasn't completely dissimilar.
I tried (and failed) to imagine how such a system could be put together
from computers like the one I was using. I concluded it would be far to
big to fit in my house.

 

[mark_bluemel]

I wish to learn C and thought that this would be a good place to
start.

If anyone could point me in the right direction it would be most
appreciated

As others have suggested, Kernighan and Ritchie (2nd Edition) is a
good place to start.

As you commented you'll be working in a Unix-like environment, you may
find it helpful to subscribe to comp.unix.programmer as well as this
newsgroup. I'd also suggest getting hold of W Richard Stevens' book
"Advanced Programming in the Unix Environment" once you feel you have
a fair grasp of the basics of C - it deals very meticulously and
clearly with the intricacies of that programming environment.

btw what age did most of you start learning to program?

I'd just graduated at 21, about 30 years ago. I learnt COBOL-68, if I
remember correctly. Since then I've learnt a few other languages, some
of which are totally obsolete (INFO/BASIC, PLP, SPL, anyone?), others
(C, Java) are less so

 

[jfbode1029]

I would like to begin this post by stating that it is my first usenet
post. I wish to learn C and thought that this would be a good place to
start.

This is a good place if you get stuck and need help, but it's not the
best resource for learning the basic concepts of C. Consult your
handy reference manual first, and if you still have a question, by all
means ask it here.


[snip]

If anyone could point me in the right direction it would be most
appreciated

Several people have already mentioned K&R. There's also "C: A
Reference Manual" by Harbison & Steele (currently 5th ed.), which
makes a good companion reference.

btw what age did most of you start learning to program?

I was 16; taught myself Logo and old-school BASIC on a TI-99/4A in
1981.

 

[Echo Weep]

I would like to begin this post by stating that it is my first usenet
post. I wish to learn C and thought that this would be a good place to
start. I have minimal programming experience and am interesting in
learning C as my first language. There are numerous reasons I wish to
learn C however the two main reasons are; I am using a unix based
operating system and two I want to learn a relatively low level/mid
level language (as I believe I will end up learning more). I already
know a little bit (very minimal) including the basics of pointers,
arrays,data types etc..

If anyone could point me in the right direction it would be most
appreciated

Sincerely

Echo

P.S sorry for the badly written post (its 12 am in Toronto and i have
school tomorrow)

btw what age did most of you start learning to program?

Thanks, you guys helped alot. I will definitely look into Kernighan and
Ritchie's book.From what I have been able to discern the majority of you
are pioneers of this field. I myself am 15 years old (16 in summer) but
am obviously growing up in an age that is more influenced by technology.
However I digress as it saddens me to say that although I myself am a
Linux user trying to learn C, my school seems to be taking me in the
opposite direction (they are trying to teach me Visual Basic on a windows
platform). Alas I am forced to learn a "language" that deviates from even
the most basic principles of programming (from what I have seen so far/
heard). I am much looking forward to next year when they will be teaching
a more suitable language (java). But enough of that, once more I thank
you for the advice.

sincerely
Echo

btw What news readers do you guys use? I myself tried various console
based clients (I do most of my work except web browsing in the console)
but switched to pan after finding it much harder to sort through spam and
read the actual usenet messages.

 

[Flash Gordon]

Thanks, you guys helped alot. I will definitely look into Kernighan and
Ritchie's book.

You want the 2nd edition for learning, but if you see a first edition I
recommend you buy that as well, it's an interesting historical document
and most copies have probably been used so much they are falling apart...

From what I have been able to discern the majority of you
are pioneers of this field.

I'm less of a pioneer than some. I taught myself Basic at school
starting in the early 80s using a Comodore PET, then my dad bought a BBC
when they came out and I learned a lot more on that. I only started with
C in the mid 90s.

I myself am 15 years old (16 in summer) but
am obviously growing up in an age that is more influenced by technology.
However I digress as it saddens me to say that although I myself am a
Linux user trying to learn C, my school seems to be taking me in the
opposite direction (they are trying to teach me Visual Basic on a windows
platform). Alas I am forced to learn a "language" that deviates from even
the most basic principles of programming (from what I have seen so far/
heard). I am much looking forward to next year when they will be teaching
a more suitable language (java). But enough of that, once more I thank
you for the advice.

Learning a variety of different languages is good. If you do it properly
it will teach you different ways of thinking about solving the problems
and allow you to select the best tool for the job. Sometimes things like
Visual Basic can be the right tool for the job!

btw What news readers do you guys use? I myself tried various console
based clients (I do most of my work except web browsing in the console)
but switched to pan after finding it much harder to sort through spam and
read the actual usenet messages.

I use Thunderbird. If you look at peoples headers you will see a number
of other readers in use.

 

[jfbode1029]

[snip]

However I digress as it saddens me to say that although I myself am a
Linux user trying to learn C, my school seems to be taking me in the
opposite direction (they are trying to teach me Visual Basic on a windows
platform). Alas I am forced to learn a "language" that deviates from even
the most basic principles of programming (from what I have seen so far/
heard). I am much looking forward to next year when they will be teaching
a more suitable language (java). But enough of that, once more I thank
you for the advice.

Bode's first law of programming -- All Programming Languages Suck.
For all of VB's faults (and they are legion), it's still the right
tool for its domain (rapidly generating GUI-driven Windows apps).
Win32 programming in C is an exercise in extreme masochism.

C has its share of warts and misfeatures, and the more I play with
Java the less impressed I am. Haskell's pretty cool, but I fear I'm
too old and brain-damaged to really understand it. So don't look too
disparagingly on languages like VB; they get the job done, which in
the end is all that matters.

sincerely
Echo

btw What news readers do you guys use? I myself tried various console
based clients (I do most of my work except web browsing in the console)
but switched to pan after finding it much harder to sort through spam and
read the actual usenet messages.

I use Pan at home. Everywhere else it's Google Groups (ugh).

 

[Echo Weep]

I use Thunderbird. If you look at peoples headers you will see a number

of other readers in use.

Thanks I didnt know the headers displayed which client the poster was
using.

Learning a variety of different languages is good. If you do it properly
it will teach you different ways of thinking about solving the problems
and allow you to select the best tool for the job. Sometimes things like
Visual Basic can be the right tool for the job!

I meant learning Visual Basic as a first language doesnt appeal to
me given how high level it is. However Ill definitely keep myself more
open minded about programming in general.

 

[jameskuyper]

Echo Weep wrote:
....

Ritchie's book.From what I have been able to discern the majority of you
are pioneers of this field.

We're mostly (I believe) adults, and several of us who answered your
question indicated that we started working in the field at young age,
a long time ago. However, that doesn't make us all pioneers. Every
path I've ever taken had already been paved by the time I got there,
the true pioneers had already left for other fields.

 

[Echo Weep]

Get hold of the book "The C Programming Language" by Kerighan and
Richie.
Read it and do the excercises as you go along. If you hit problems post
your questions here. If you need model answers look here
http://clc-wiki.net/wiki/K&R2_solutions

I'm afraid most online tutorials for C are poor. Other people may be
able
to point you to the few that are good.


Happy Programming!


--
Nick Keighley

A good designer must rely on experience, on precise, logic thinking;
and on pedantic exactness. No magic will do. (Wirth)

Given how old (yet apparently timeless) the book is do you think I will
be able to pick up a copy at my local chapters? Or would a pdf copy
suffice?

 

[Keith Thompson]

Echo Weep wrote:
...

We're mostly (I believe) adults, and several of us who answered your
question indicated that we started working in the field at young age,
a long time ago. However, that doesn't make us all pioneers. Every
path I've ever taken had already been paved by the time I got there,
the true pioneers had already left for other fields.

On the other hand, Dennis Ritchie has posted here occasionally, most
recently about 2 years ago. Certainly most of us aren't pioneers, but
software is such a young field that many of the founders are still
around. (Wikipedia credit 3 people with the invention of the
subroutine; one of them is still alive. Imagine a mechanical engineer
being able to meet the inventor of the gear).

 

[Keith Thompson]

Given how old (yet apparently timeless) the book is do you think I will
be able to pick up a copy at my local chapters? Or would a pdf copy
suffice?

Yes, K&R2 should be available at your local book store; if they don't
have it in stock, they can order it. Or you can get it from any of
the big online stores.

As far as I know, there are no legitimate pdf copies available (and
please don't ask here about obtaining illegitimate copies).

 

[CBFalconer]

I would like to begin this post by stating that it is my first
usenet post. I wish to learn C and thought that this would be a
good place to start. I have minimal programming experience and
am interesting in learning C as my first language. There are
numerous reasons I wish to learn C however the two main reasons
are; I am using a unix based operating system and two I want to
learn a relatively low level/mid level language (as I believe I
will end up learning more). I already know a little bit (very
minimal) including the basics of pointers, arrays,data types etc.

If anyone could point me in the right direction it would be most
appreciated

You're doing fine. I suggest you start by poking about the
references below. Here we try to stick to the C language, as
defined by the C standard (the items marked C99 below), and
consider things dependent on system specific features to be
off-topic. There are quite a few trolls about that keep trying to
divert the newsgroup - you will learn to identify them quite soon.

Some useful references about C:
<http://www.ungerhu.com/jxh/clc.welcome.txt>
<http://c-faq.com/> (C-faq)
<http://benpfaff.org/writings/clc/off-topic.html>
<http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1256.pdf> (C99)
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net/download/n869_txt.bz2> (pre-C99)
<http://www.dinkumware.com/c99.aspx> (C-library}
<http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/> (GNU docs)
<http://clc-wiki.net/wiki/C_community:comp.lang.c:Introduction>
<http://clc-wiki.net/wiki/Introduction_to_comp.lang.c>

 

[Phil Carmody]

I would like to begin this post by stating that it is my first usenet
post.
Welcome!

I wish to learn C and thought that this would be a good place to
start. I have minimal programming experience and am interesting in
learning C as my first language. There are numerous reasons I wish to
learn C however the two main reasons are; I am using a unix based
operating system and two I want to learn a relatively low level/mid level
language (as I believe I will end up learning more). I already know a
little bit (very minimal) including the basics of pointers, arrays,data
types etc..

If anyone could point me in the right direction it would be most
appreciated

Having a modern printing of K&R is most useful, and the comp.lang.c
FAQ covers many gotchas in the language. When you are familiar enough
with K&R, then you're probably well-enough equipped to start referring
to the C standard(s) - for the closest approaches to those, grab
"n869.pdf" and "n1256.pdf".

Sincerely

Echo

P.S sorry for the badly written post (its 12 am in Toronto and i have
school tomorrow)

You're doing better than several of the regulars!

btw what age did most of you start learning to program?

1982, aged 11, BASIC on some mini the size of a large wardrobe
with no real security at all. I still remember my first day at
the console, after waiting 5 minutes at the start of the lesson
for the bugger to boot up, and the 'hello' prompt I was offered.
I forget what response my 'hello' elicited, but I clearly
remember the response to my next command - 'bye'. 10 minutes
later, after the machine had been rebooted, the 24 of us began
our class again... (I have no idea what the machine was - if
anyone has any vague clue what it might have been, please fling
random suggestions in my direction. I seem to remember the
command to log in was something like "login 8,8", where 8 was
my terminal number.)

I didn't meet C until ~1987, but a multi-floppy-disc compiler
on a single-floppy Atari ST was no fun at all, and I didn't
do anything with it. However, when I got access to a PC with
TurboC on it, my programming life changed dramatically!

Phil

 

[Echo Weep]

As far as I know, there are no legitimate pdf copies available (and
please don't ask here about obtaining illegitimate copies).

I wont dont worry, I try to avoid warez whenever possible.

 

[CBFalconer]

.... snip ...


I'd just graduated at 21, about 30 years ago. I learnt COBOL-68,
if I remember correctly. Since then I've learnt a few other
languages, some of which are totally obsolete (INFO/BASIC, PLP,
SPL, anyone?), others (C, Java) are less so

Ahh yes. SPL, Algol, the HP3000. A flexible machine.

 

[Echo Weep]

There are quite a few trolls
about that keep trying to divert the newsgroup - you will learn to
identify them quite soon.

Yeah ive heard there are alot of flame wars and trolls on usenet. So its
best to avoid them to remain productive. Thanks for the tip

Some useful references about C:
<http://www.ungerhu.com/jxh/clc.welcome.txt> <http://c-faq.com/>
(C-faq)
<http://benpfaff.org/writings/clc/off-topic.html>
<http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1256.pdf> (C99)
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net/download/n869_txt.bz2> (pre-C99)
<http://www.dinkumware.com/c99.aspx> (C-library}
<http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/> (GNU docs)
<http://clc-wiki.net/wiki/C_community:comp.lang.c:Introduction>
<http://clc-wiki.net/wiki/Introduction_to_comp.lang.c>

A great list of references thanks

 

[Echo Weep]

There are many C programmers here with a wealth of real world C

knowledge who would be more than happy to help you-. Whether it be to
choose an IDE, Editor or Compiler. Feel free to ask away.

Thanks for the advice richard (my comp science teacher is also named
richard) what would you recommend for a development environment?
Personally I think (at my level) a fully fledged IDE isnt necessary I
plan on sticking with good old vim (has nice syntax highlighting
apparently) and gcc.

 

[Ben Bacarisse]

Given how old (yet apparently timeless) the book is do you think I will
be able to pick up a copy at my local chapters?

Don't rule out a library. My local library is just rubbish for
anything up-to-date and technical, but even they have a copy of K&R2
(which seems never to be out on loan). The fact that it is (a) old
and (b) a classic helps in the case.