perl zombies

Discussion in 'Perl Misc' started by Uri Guttman, Aug 16, 2003.

  1. Uri Guttman

    Uri Guttman Guest

    >>>>> "H" == Hudson <> writes:

    H> there are some people in the perl community that want to follow a
    H> party line and become so intolerant of anything outside of their
    H> own mindset...it is really a _bad_thing_


    H> IMHO (uri being case in point)

    your opinion doesn't mean much in the perl community. oh, well. live
    inside your petty little world. you have professed to not to use common
    and stable modules. that is against all basic tenets of coding in any
    language. so you think you can recode all the modules on cpan? go ahead.

    now if you post here, expect comments on your code including not using
    modules.

    uri

    --
    Uri Guttman ------ -------- http://www.stemsystems.com
    --Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
    Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- http://jobs.perl.org
    Uri Guttman, Aug 16, 2003
    #1
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  2. Uri Guttman

    Uri Guttman Guest

    >>>>> "H" == Hudson <> writes:


    H> uri...you've acted like a prick all night....I come in here with
    H> some honest questions and you give me this party line like
    H> "ohhhhhhh....no cgi by yourself" and "oooooooh...you are a beginner
    H> if you don't use Soap::Lite"

    and you have acted like so many self taught coders who think they can
    solve all problems by themselves. i am not concerned about what you
    do. and your future potential employers would be wise to be wary of you.

    but i am concerned about others who read your posts and i want to make
    sure they don't follow your bad lead. solving cgi or soap for a specific
    case is less than trivial. you don't seem to get that. you won't until
    you tire of editing all the strings each time something minor
    changes. that is the root reason for module development and reuse. you
    will just have to live through your own bad experiences before you see
    the light. as for party line, i didn't write it nor do i preach it. i
    just expose those who profess to know things and who really don't.

    H> bah!!

    humbug!

    now please go away and code in your little corner. you won't be getting
    much help here anymore with that attitude.

    uri

    --
    Uri Guttman ------ -------- http://www.stemsystems.com
    --Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
    Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- http://jobs.perl.org
    Uri Guttman, Aug 16, 2003
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  3. Uri Guttman

    Hudson Guest

    there are some people in the perl community that want to follow a party line and
    become so intolerant of anything outside of their own mindset...it is really a
    _bad_thing_

    IMHO (uri being case in point)
    Hudson, Aug 16, 2003
    #3
  4. Uri Guttman

    Hudson Guest


    >Well, not too many comments, since I suspect a lot of killfiles received
    >a new entry...


    for what? for speaking the truth? close your eyes then and be blind...there's
    enough fun on the internet for me without you reading my posts ;-)
    Hudson, Aug 16, 2003
    #4
  5. >>>>> "Mark" == Mark <> writes:

    Mark> Any one who reads this group with any regularity knows who the leaders are.
    Mark> I recognize the credentials of the knowledgeable individuals who form the
    Mark> core of this group. More, I recognize the style of answers so well that I
    Mark> can most often guess the author of the response without reading the
    Mark> signature. While these answers vary in tone, some of the most terse offer
    Mark> the best, clearest, most concise of answers. I will not be misled by a one
    Mark> time poster who disregards the most common rules of etiquette established in
    Mark> this group. While I appreciate your attempt to protect me, I find it
    Mark> somewhat patronizing that you think me so dull I cannot do this for myself.

    Because it's not *you* of whom we speak.

    It is precisely for the google-hit-and-run reader. Which of these are better
    when viewed in a search engine?

    Question gets posted
    Troll answer gets posted
    Good answer gets posted

    Question gets posted
    Troll answer gets posted
    Troll answer gets challenged
    Troller responds
    Troll answer gets challenged
    Troller responds
    Good answer gets posted

    Certainly, the latter, because the casual reader can at least be
    alerted to the fact that a troll answer is getting challenged even if
    it seems to be a continual game of "who speaks last" and "king of the
    hill".

    So, Mark, we're not watching out for you... you can obviously
    recognize the trolls. We watch out for the casual reader, who cannot
    discriminate as you can.

    Unfortunately, the best thread is:

    Question gets posted
    Good answer gets posted

    But we can't do that without moderation, and that's not going to
    happen in comp.lang.perl.misc.

    print "Just another Perl hacker,"

    --
    Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
    <> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
    Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
    See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
    Randal L. Schwartz, Aug 16, 2003
    #5
  6. >>>>> "hudson" == hudson <> writes:

    hudson> Randal, you missed the whole point of Mark's thread. His point was
    hudson> learning what is under the hood is a good thing and all this talk of
    hudson> not reinventing the wheel stops people from doing that.

    Well, the moment I see someone actually studying prior art before
    reinventing the wheel, I'll be ALL FOR THAT.

    So far, that hasn't happened. Not in your case, not in others.

    --
    Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
    <> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
    Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
    See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
    Randal L. Schwartz, Aug 16, 2003
    #6
  7. Uri Guttman

    Mark Guest

    > but i am concerned about others who read your posts and i want to make
    > sure they don't follow your bad lead.


    As a long time ghost of this group I'll take this as an invitation to weigh
    in.

    Any one who reads this group with any regularity knows who the leaders are.
    I recognize the credentials of the knowledgeable individuals who form the
    core of this group. More, I recognize the style of answers so well that I
    can most often guess the author of the response without reading the
    signature. While these answers vary in tone, some of the most terse offer
    the best, clearest, most concise of answers. I will not be misled by a one
    time poster who disregards the most common rules of etiquette established in
    this group. While I appreciate your attempt to protect me, I find it
    somewhat patronizing that you think me so dull I cannot do this for myself.
    Is it your contention that because I don't know Perl my judgment must be
    impaired? I assure you it is not.

    As a matter of fact, I see valid points in the OPs argument. Because a
    module is available to do a task, should the knowledge of how to do without
    be lost? Too often I see 'leaders' inferring there is no good reason to
    're-invent the wheel' and I disagree. Unless you originally invented the
    wheel, there is every good reason to study the concept, familiarize yourself
    with the capabilities of the principle, and to move beyond the foundation of
    knowledge gained in this manner. Liken a module to a calculator in that both
    are a device for automating some function. Do you advise that none should
    learn to add? Surely you see the value of learning addition in spite of the
    errors that will undoubtedly be made. Of course the speed and accuracy of
    the calculator should be touted, but so should the value of experimenting
    for the sake of knowledge. Methods, advantages, and limitations should be
    discussed freely.

    I admit I have little to contribute here, Perl is an interest to me, but not
    a specialty. I read most every post, learn what I can, but (with rare
    exception) refrain from posting- I am intimidated by the tone of this group.
    I find the rules of conduct too strict to be comfortable, too arbitrary to
    be intuitive, and too indiscriminately applied to be confident that what is
    a carefully researched, thought out, and worded inquiry (at least at my
    level of understanding) will be met with any level of benevolence. I have
    read, in previous responses to this complaint, the assertion that this is
    not a help desk- that argument was (in at least two cases) followed only a
    sentence later by 'If you want our help you'll...' (note that the poster
    speaks for the group, and take my assurance this was not argued). I have
    also read that posts are only considered invitations to discuss a topic and
    that any help received is incidental to the discussion. I find this
    contradictory, especially when follow-ups are interspersed with responses
    that counterpoint the original post sentence by sentence. Even after years
    of ghosting this group I am unable find consistency in some very common
    behaviors here.

    Before offering justification, consider how many posts have been answered by
    the terse comment: "And your Perl question is?" At the time of my
    (admittedly OT) contribution not a single complaint has been raised in a
    thread of some 20+ posts.

    Most importantly: do not take my comments as critique, nor as an address to
    any particular individual. I did not found this group nor do I expect that
    it should run, in any sense, for my benefit. There is a huge amount of
    knowledge here and I consider it a great privilege to gain what I do from
    the professionals who offer their time on this public form. Still this is a
    /public/ forum and, as such, open to rebuttal when my interests are
    considered- even indirectly.


    Mark

    Just another carpenter.
    Mark, Aug 17, 2003
    #7
  8. <> wrote:

    > Many people who have much knowledge and experience get frustrated when
    > ignorami request help, and then spurn the help because it doesn't
    > matche the inquisitors mindset.



    Another one for my "insightful quote" file.

    Thanks.


    --
    Tad McClellan SGML consulting
    Perl programming
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Tad McClellan, Aug 17, 2003
    #8
  9. Uri Guttman

    hudson Guest

    Randal, you missed the whole point of Mark's thread. His point was
    learning what is under the hood is a good thing and all this talk of
    not reinventing the wheel stops people from doing that.

    Think, man...this is all about knowledge and understanding, not just
    doing the "right thing"
    hudson, Aug 17, 2003
    #9
  10. Uri Guttman

    Vlad Tepes Guest

    hudson <> wrote:

    >> Hudson like ansers don't come from knowligly posting incorrect
    >> infomation, Hudson's answers come from ignorence. So its inaccurate
    >> to class him as a troll.

    >
    > christ, man...your spelling and english are poor or you are in the
    > sixth grade...how's that for pointing out ignorance?
    >
    > here's with spell checking, but I still can't decode your thoughts
    > because of the poor grammer:


    It looks like you need to check your own spelling, grammar and
    punctuation...

    --
    Vlad
    Vlad Tepes, Aug 21, 2003
    #10
  11. Uri Guttman

    derek / nul Guest

    On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 21:02:54 -0700, hudson <> wrote:

    >On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 00:30:53 +0000 (UTC), Vlad Tepes
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>It looks like you need to check your own spelling, grammar and
    >>punctuation...

    >
    >well...I know...but his was really bad


    Can we get back to perl?
    derek / nul, Aug 21, 2003
    #11
  12. Uri Guttman

    hudson Guest


    >I don't wish to be a pedent here but I wish to challenge your use of
    >the word "Troll" in this context. A troll is someone who knowlingly
    >posts missleading or incorrect infomation for the amusement value
    >there of. Trolls perposely sturs up trouble because they like sturing
    >up trouble.
    >
    >Hudson like ansers don't come from knowligly posting incorrect
    >infomation, Hudson's answers come from ignorence. So its inaccurate
    >to class him as a troll.


    christ, man...your spelling and english are poor or you are in the
    sixth grade...how's that for pointing out ignorance?

    here's with spell checking, but I still can't decode your thoughts
    because of the poor grammer:

    >I don't wish to be a pendant here but I wish to challenge your use of
    >the word "Troll" in this context. A troll is someone who knowingly
    >posts misleading or incorrect information for the amusement value
    >there of. Trolls purposely stirs up trouble because they like stirring
    >up trouble.
    >
    >Hudson like answers don't come from knowingly posting incorrect
    >information, Hudson's answers come from ignorance. So its inaccurate
    >to class him as a troll.
    hudson, Aug 21, 2003
    #12
  13. Uri Guttman

    hudson Guest

    On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 00:30:53 +0000 (UTC), Vlad Tepes
    <> wrote:

    >It looks like you need to check your own spelling, grammar and
    >punctuation...


    well...I know...but his was really bad
    hudson, Aug 21, 2003
    #13
  14. Uri Guttman

    Sam Holden Guest

    On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 21:25:33 -0500, Tad McClellan <> wrote:
    > hudson <> wrote:
    >
    > [ some unattributed person said: ]
    >
    >>>Hudson like ansers don't come from knowligly posting incorrect
    >>>infomation, Hudson's answers come from ignorence. So its inaccurate
    >>>to class him as a troll.

    >>
    >> christ, man...your spelling and english are poor or you are in the
    >> sixth grade...how's that for pointing out ignorance?

    >
    >
    > Did you read his .signature?
    >
    > Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia. See
    > http://dformosa.zeta.org.au/~dformosa/Spelling.html to find out more.
    >
    >
    > Making fun of someone's medical condition does indeed show
    > some ignorance, so you are right there (for once).
    >
    > Shameful.


    But expected from such people. It goes with the "kiddies" bit of
    "script kiddies", along with making fun of old people who have trouble
    getting on to escalators, and disabled people who walk "funny".

    David is nice guy, he was the perl beachhead amongst the
    python programmers in our department...

    --
    Sam Holden
    Sam Holden, Aug 21, 2003
    #14
  15. Uri Guttman

    hudson Guest

    On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 01:11:09 GMT, derek / nul <>
    wrote:

    >Can we get back to perl?


    didn't you notice? this is perl at its finest ;-)
    hudson, Aug 21, 2003
    #15
  16. Uri Guttman

    hudson Guest

    On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 21:25:33 -0500, (Tad
    McClellan) wrote:

    >Did you read his .signature?


    ahhh...no I didn't...that explains it ;-)
    hudson, Aug 21, 2003
    #16
  17. Uri Guttman

    hudson Guest

    >> Did you read his .signature?
    >>
    >> Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia. See
    >> http://dformosa.zeta.org.au/~dformosa/Spelling.html to find out more.
    >>
    >>
    >> Making fun of someone's medical condition does indeed show
    >> some ignorance, so you are right there (for once).
    >>
    >> Shameful.


    geez...I have no idea that someone had a medical condition.

    the page is 404, by the way

    >But expected from such people. It goes with the "kiddies" bit of
    >"script kiddies", along with making fun of old people who have trouble
    >getting on to escalators, and disabled people who walk "funny".


    I am not a script kiddie, so screw you, sam...

    >David is nice guy, he was the perl beachhead amongst the
    >python programmers in our department...


    you know what...David called me ignorant, so I still think he is a
    prick regardless of his condition....
    hudson, Aug 21, 2003
    #17
  18. Uri Guttman

    Hudson Guest

    hey David, sorry, but I didn't understand your condition.

    >>> he was the perl beachhead amongst the
    >>>python programmers in our department...

    >>
    >> you know what...David called me ignorant,

    >
    >Because you act in a mannor which indercates you lack knolige.
    >
    >> so I still think he is a
    >> prick regardless of his condition....

    >
    >From you that is a high compliment.


    Good...I like to give out compliments where they are deserved ;-)
    Hudson, Aug 25, 2003
    #18
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