persistence / object backend to file / serialization

[luc peuvrier]

http://joafip.sourceforge.net/
can be see as a:
- an "intelligent" serialization: write only changes, read only object
needed
- manage more object than memory can contains
- an alternate persistence solution to relationnal database

 

[Roedy Green]

http://joafip.sourceforge.net/
can be see as a:
- an "intelligent" serialization: write only changes, read only object
needed
- manage more object than memory can contains
- an alternate persistence solution to relationnal database

It is one of a class of programs called PODs. See
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/pod.html

Jaofip seems to be the liveliest right now. For reasons I do not
understand, interest in them has dropped.

Programming with them is almost like having a multi terrabyte RAM
machine that never loses power and the app never terminates.

 

[Arved Sandstrom]

It is one of a class of programs called PODs. See
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/pod.html

Jaofip seems to be the liveliest right now. For reasons I do not
understand, interest in them has dropped.

Programming with them is almost like having a multi terrabyte RAM
machine that never loses power and the app never terminates.

Not to comment on the mentioned implementation (I've never used it), but
I'd like to point out that persistence providers like EclipseLink have
put a lot of effort into doing "intelligent" serialization as described
above. It's part of their bread and butter.

AHS

 

[Tom Anderson]

http://joafip.sourceforge.net/
can be see as a:
- an "intelligent" serialization: write only changes, read only object
needed
- manage more object than memory can contains
- an alternate persistence solution to relationnal database

So you've basically reinvented JDO? That's cool, i always liked JDO.

tom

--
Rumor has it, though, that a vast, echoless complex exists beneath
Atlanta, dug by Ludacris. Its dimensions are too shocking to believe. He
hangs out down there with Umberto Eco, discussing the Hollow Earth Theory
and practicing rhymes. Whenever another royalty check comes through,
he digs deeper. -- Geoff Manaugh

 

[luc peuvrier]

So you've basically reinvented JDO? That's cool, i always liked JDO.

tom

--
Rumor has it, though, that a vast, echoless complex exists beneath
Atlanta, dug by Ludacris. Its dimensions are too shocking to believe. He
hangs out down there with Umberto Eco, discussing the Hollow Earth Theory
and practicing rhymes. Whenever another royalty check comes through,
he digs deeper. -- Geoff Manaugh

Hi Tom,

I do not think reinvented JDO. If you like JDO and well know it I will
be happy you compare the JOAFIP and JDO facade.
Luc

 

[luc peuvrier]

Not to comment on the mentioned implementation (I've never used it), but
I'd like to point out that persistence providers like EclipseLink have
put a lot of effort into doing "intelligent" serialization as described
above. It's part of their bread and butter.

AHS- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And it exists a plenty of persistence implementations.
The joafip goal was to write a full object data model without take
care of memory amount, the object graph is derecitly backend to file.
Luc

 

[Lew]

Hi Tom [sic],

I do not think reinvented JDO. If you like JDO and well know it I will
be happy you compare the JOAFIP and JDO facade.

Shouldn't that be your job as the spammer for the JOAFIP project, not tom's?

Burden of proof is on you. Il est votre devoir.

 

[Roedy Green]

e spammer for the JOAFIP project,

SPAM implies:

1. commercial motive

2. posting repeatedly

3. posting in places inappropriate to discuss a project

4. refusing to engage in ensuing discussions.

None of that has happened. We have a simple product announcement which
is completely appropriate given the demise of the announcements topic.

 

[luc peuvrier]

SPAM implies:

1. commercial motive

2. posting repeatedly

3. posting in places inappropriate to discuss a project

4. refusing to engage in ensuing discussions.

None of that has happened. We have a simple product announcement which
is completely appropriate given the demise of the announcements topic.

Thank for this reply.
Topic is not joafip, but is about the family of solutions like joafip.
First goal is to annouce joafip, but also to have an open discution on
alternatives solutions to easily manage more object than memory can
contains.
I will be happy to gain some new user, but also to have comparison
with alternative, I am not saying joafip is the best solution, but
that it is a solution: each solutions have advantages or disadvantages
according to a project context or to needs.
Luc

 

[Lew]

SPAM implies:

"SPAM" in all upper-case letters is a trademark of Hormel foods for their
canned pork product. "Spam" in lower or mixed case is the topic.

1. commercial motive

2. posting repeatedly

3. posting in places inappropriate to discuss a project

4. refusing to engage in ensuing discussions.

None of that has happened. We have a simple product announcement which
is completely appropriate given the demise of the announcements topic.

Whatever.

 

[Mike Schilling]

"SPAM" in all upper-case letters is a trademark of Hormel foods for
their canned pork product.

Hormel's SPAM museum (http://www.spam.com/games/Museum/default.aspx) has a
Monty Python exhibit. Pretty cool of them to embrace the skit rather than
getting shirty about trademark usage.

 

[Lew]

Hormel's SPAM museum (http://www.spam.com/games/Museum/default.aspx) has a
Monty Python exhibit. Pretty cool of them to embrace the skit rather than
getting shirty about trademark usage.

But the Monty Python skit actually does refer to the Hormel product. No risk
of confusion there.

The use of "spam" (lower case) to represent the evil of unwanted commercial
email is much less flattering. Hormel states their trademark policy pretty
clearly on their website, and they once denied me the right to use a photo of
their product in a computer article, explaining that they didn't want their
product associated with anything computer-related because of the negative
connotations of "spam".

My guess - a skit that honors, albeit satirically, the trademark, and from a
well-respected and highly-talented comedy troupe: no worries. Association
with one of the great evils of the computer age: no way.

 

[Mike Schilling]

But the Monty Python skit actually does refer to the Hormel product. No
risk of confusion there.

No, but since the point of the skit is how disgusting the stuff is ...

 

[Tom Anderson]

No, but since the point of the skit is how disgusting the stuff is ...

That's not the point of the sketch. The point of the sketch is the
surrealism of a cafe which only one thing, but serves it in dozens of
presumably indistinguishable combinations. That the one thing is spam is
important, because i don't think the sketch would be funny if it was
chocolate instead, but i think that has as much to do with the funny sound
of the word than the disgusting nature of the stuff.

tom

 

[Lew]

That's not the point of the sketch. The point of the sketch is the
surrealism of a cafe which only one thing, but serves it in dozens of
presumably indistinguishable combinations. That the one thing is spam is
important, because i don't think the sketch would be funny if it was
chocolate instead, but i think that has as much to do with the funny
sound of the word than the disgusting nature of the stuff.

Mike is right. In the 70s, when Monty Python created the skit, many
Britishers still remembered having to virtually live on SPAM during the war
years, and it remained a staple food of the penurious. They tended not to
remember it with pleasure. That is very much part of the reason the skit used
SPAM and not chocolate.

For the record, I love SPAM. It's a bit too salty, perhaps, but it's a guilty
pleasure. Then again, I've never had to live on it.

 

[RedGrittyBrick]

Britishers

Do all Americaners call Britons Britishers?

 

[Lew]

Do all Americaners call Britons Britishers?

I don't know, but the term comes from Indian English, not American, so it's
the Indiaers who say it. I was just being international.
<http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Britisher>

It's not like I made up the word, or that it's uncommon or incorrect.

When Jack Kennedy said, "Ich bin ein Berliner," he was saying, "I am a
pastry." That'd be like me saying in English, "I am a Danish."

 

[Tom Anderson]

I don't know, but the term comes from Indian English, not American, so it's
the Indiaers who say it.

Indianers, surely?

I was just being international.
<http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Britisher>

It's not like I made up the word, or that it's uncommon or incorrect.

In the UK, i suspect it's associated with Germans. Specifically,
unconvincing German villains from old war films. "Ve vill victimise ze
Britishers viz zer villainous V2!" etc.

tom

 

[Mike Schilling]

That's not the point of the sketch. The point of the sketch is the
surrealism of a cafe which only one thing, but serves it in dozens of
presumably indistinguishable combinations. That the one thing is spam
is important, because i don't think the sketch would be funny if it
was chocolate instead, but i think that has as much to do with the
funny sound of the word than the disgusting nature of the stuff.

They did a very similar sketch with "rat".

Woman: Well there's rat cake ... rat sorbet... rat pudding... or strawberry
tart.
Man: Strawberry tart?!
Woman: Well it's got some rat in it.
Man: How much?
Woman: Three, rather a lot really.
Man: ... well, I'll have a slice without so much rat in it.

 

[Arved Sandstrom]

I don't know, but the term comes from Indian English, not American, so
it's the Indiaers who say it. I was just being international.
<http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Britisher>

It's not like I made up the word, or that it's uncommon or incorrect.

When Jack Kennedy said, "Ich bin ein Berliner," he was saying, "I am a
pastry." That'd be like me saying in English, "I am a Danish."

Well, no, JFK actually did say - correctly - that he was a citizen of
Berlin. In fact, in this case, it was probably better for him to say
"Ich bin ein Berliner" than "Ich bin Berliner". In either case the
phrase, in context, meant exactly what it was supposed to mean, and not
that he was a pastry. And in Berlin, in particular, there wasn't even
any ambiguity: http://www.esskultur.net/lm/berliner3.html.

AHS