Problem with fonts

[Mike Azzopardi]

Hi

I put up my new music page and i've found that some people can't view the
Kiddietype font in their browser. I have used a stylesheet.

I've seen the same browser IE5 and 6 with XP used and different results.

Here is the link:

www.bluemenagerie.co.uk

I ended up putting the logo as a jpeg, but how come the 5 links, dont always
show up in kiddietype?

Thanks in advance

Mike

 

[SpaceGirl]

Hi

I put up my new music page and i've found that some people can't view the
Kiddietype font in their browser. I have used a stylesheet.

I've seen the same browser IE5 and 6 with XP used and different results.

Here is the link:

www.bluemenagerie.co.uk

I ended up putting the logo as a jpeg, but how come the 5 links, dont always
show up in kiddietype?

Thanks in advance

Mike

Because you can only use about 6 typefaces on web sites.

Verdana,
Georgia,
Arial / Helvetica
Times Roman,
Tahoma,
Courier

These fonts are generally the only ones that are installed on ALL
machines. You pick some other weird font and the user may just not have
it installed.

You have "Brush Script" and "KiddieType" fonts in your HTML. I have over
1200 fonts on this machine (my design machine) and even *I* dont have
either of those installed, so how do you expect the general public to
have them?

I think you need to take a step back and learn some HTML basics. Your
page code is an aweful mess, and I'm suprised most browsers dont choke
on it. Take a look at some of the guides on www.w3schools.com. They will
help you a lot, I think.


--


x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #

 

[Steve Pugh]

I put up my new music page and i've found that some people can't view the
Kiddietype font in their browser.

Because Kiddietype is a rare font and most users won't have it
installed.

I have used a stylesheet.
Irrelevant.

I've seen the same browser IE5 and 6 with XP used and different results.

www.bluemenagerie.co.uk

No it's at http://freespace.virgin.net/mike.azzopardi/index.html

Hmm, nasty attack of the click heres.

I ended up putting the logo as a jpeg, but how come the 5 links, dont always
show up in kiddietype?

Because your stylesheet references KidTYPEPaint not kiddietype?

You can't rely on a particular font being used on a web page - CSS is
just a suggested presentation. After all, what font should a speech
browser use?

Steve

 

[Mike Azzopardi]

You're right I dont know anything about HTML. I did that in dreamweaver and
have used about 4 incarnations of a old page template and gone "save as"
without starting from scratch, so I dread to think what old rubbish is lying
around.

I just want the simplist of sites and don't have much time.

But on the subject of fonts. That font is integreal to the way i want to
portray my text, so apart from taking screenshots of it, is there any other
way for that font to be displayed in a browser, if the user hasn't got the
font installed?

Thanks for telling me why it isn't working though.

 

[Steve Pugh]

Because you can only use about 6 typefaces on web sites.

No, you can use any font you like, you just can't rely on all users
seeing it.

Verdana,
Georgia,
Arial / Helvetica
Times Roman,
Tahoma,
Courier

98%, 95%, 99%/88%, 99% (assuming you actually mean Times New Roman),
88%, 97% (though Courier New is 98%). According to the survey of 800
users carried out by Visibone -
http://www.visibone.com/font/FontResults.html

Widespread but not on all machines.

Steve

 

[SpaceGirl]

No, you can use any font you like, you just can't rely on all users
seeing it.




98%, 95%, 99%/88%, 99% (assuming you actually mean Times New Roman),
88%, 97% (though Courier New is 98%). According to the survey of 800
users carried out by Visibone -
http://www.visibone.com/font/FontResults.html

Widespread but not on all machines.

Steve

I was KISSing as the page was by a n00b. Effectively I was right. Mr
Pedantic

--


x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #

 

[Steve Pugh]

You're right I dont know anything about HTML. I did that in dreamweaver and
have used about 4 incarnations of a old page template and gone "save as"
without starting from scratch, so I dread to think what old rubbish is lying
around.

I just want the simplist of sites and don't have much time.

If you're time poor then make some lucky web developer money rich and
pay someone to do he job for you.

But on the subject of fonts. That font is integreal to the way i want to
portray my text,

Then your text is not suitable for use on the WWW. Try a different
medium instead, e.g. print.

so apart from taking screenshots of it, is there any other
way for that font to be displayed in a browser, if the user hasn't got the
font installed?

There's WEFT, it's Windows IE only.
http://www.microsoft.com/typography/web/embedding/weft3/default.htm
So a proportion of your visitors will still see your text in a
different font.

And please don't top post.

Steve

 

[SpaceGirl]

You're right I dont know anything about HTML. I did that in dreamweaver and
have used about 4 incarnations of a old page template and gone "save as"
without starting from scratch, so I dread to think what old rubbish is lying
around.

I just want the simplist of sites and don't have much time.

But on the subject of fonts. That font is integreal to the way i want to
portray my text, so apart from taking screenshots of it, is there any other
way for that font to be displayed in a browser, if the user hasn't got the
font installed?

Thanks for telling me why it isn't working though.

Well, there's no easy way to do it. Although it IS possible to embed
fonts in HTML (or, rather, CSS), it is browser specific and really
doesn't work that well. You really only have two solutions: redesign the
page from scratch, with the emphasis on DESIGN, and this time take into
account the lack of fonts. Or, render your text as images. The latter is
really bad as search engines will practically ignore your site (they
cannot read text that is in an image). I'd start over if I were you. A
page with NO <font> tags at all. Use CSS. At least you have a little
more control over the suggested display. However, you always need to
remember (as Steve pointed out elsewhere in this thread), CSS and HTML
formatting only SUGGEST formatting for the browser to follow. There is
no guarantee at all that every machine/browser/person will see the same
things on your page. Just not possible.


--


x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #

 

[SpaceGirl]

And please don't top post.

Steve

You seem moody tonight. Everything okay?

--


x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #

 

[Mike Azzopardi]

Thanks for the useful tips Steve and Miranda

Apologies for asking questions about a subject i know nothing about.

Mike

 

[Steve Pugh]

You seem moody tonight. Everything okay?

Asking someone not to top post makes me moody? This must be a very
moody newsgroup...

Steve

 

[gcc]

Your page code is an aweful mess ,

Would you be kind enough to Explain this statement please?
So maybe some people that write a little HTML and such don't create such a
mess and cause Browsers to Choke.....

I mean cause you basically said "Your Page Sucks Dude"

Thats kinda rude if ya ask me.....

 

[Steve Pugh]

I was KISSing as the page was by a n00b. Effectively I was right. Mr
Pedantic

First, I'm Mr know it all, now I'm Mr Pedantic. Some people like
typing a long name instead of my actual short one? At least most
people online can spell Pugh, you should hear some of the variations I
get in real life. ;-/

Anyway. The fewer lies we tell to the beginners now, the less they
have to unlearn later.

"You can suggest any font you like via CSS but it will only be used if
the user has it installed. Here's a lits of fonts that are installed
on 90% of all users' computers: [...]. (Probably should insert warning
about not using Verdana.) However, even these may not be used due to
user preference overriding your CSS suggestions."

Not too complicated really.

Steve

 

[Andy Dingley]

It was somewhere outside Barstow when "Mike Azzopardi"

I put up my new music page and i've found that some people can't view the
Kiddietype font in their browser.

You can only view using fonts that are already pre-installed on a
user's browser.

There are only a handful of typefaces that have a remote hope of being
supported by a useful fraction of your users. Use the default install
handful for Windows, maybe the Lucida set too, and always use the CSS
generic names as a fallback. Remember that with CSS you can request
from a wide range of typefaces and the first available will be used.
So long as you have a "common" name and a generic name at the end of
the list, you'll get something vaguely usable.

Be careful when designing around "weird" fonts that aren't going to be
seen by a lot of users. Their sizing is often a dubious and the page
layout may end up very strange (but then you're designing your pages
for fluid layout anyway, aren't you).

There is a technology for embedding fonts so that these are downloaded
"on the fly", but it's pretty much M$oft only, it's a pain to use it
and it basically doesn't work.

Life sucks.

 

[Steve Pugh]

Thanks for the useful tips Steve and Miranda

You're welcome.

Apologies for asking questions about a subject i know nothing about.

Best sort of subjects to ask questions about. Probably. Oh, never
mind.

Don't mind us. We're a funny bunch in alt.html and as it's Friday
night the booze has been flowing...

Steve

 

[Steve Pugh]

<everthing irrelevent to the Font issue snipped>

I think you mean everything RELEVANT...

Would you be kind enough to Explain this statement please?
So maybe some people that write a little HTML and such don't create such a
mess and cause Browsers to Choke.....

Well, the validator lists a number of errors:
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://freespace.virgin.net/mike.azzopardi/index.html

If you'd like any of those errors explained please ask.

Steve

 

[-=# Amos E Wolfe #=-]

I put up my new music page and i've found that some people can't view the
Kiddietype font in their browser. I have used a stylesheet.

As many of the others have said, most users won't have that particular font.

I ended up putting the logo as a jpeg

If you insist on using an image, you would do a lot better using a .gif for
the logo instead of .jpeg, which is a "lossy" compression and gives you
nasty little artefacts around your image.

Also, your page needs a <title>, and perhaps some indication that hyperlinks
are links e.g. underline, different colour, etc.

-=# Amos E Wolfe #=-

 

[Mike Azzopardi]

Thanks EVERYONE for the info on here. Certainly given me a lot to think
about.

and sorry for the top posts ;-)

Mike

 

[SpaceGirl]

Would you be kind enough to Explain this statement please?
So maybe some people that write a little HTML and such don't create such a
mess and cause Browsers to Choke.....

If the OP looked at the source code of the page, it makes sense.

I mean cause you basically said "Your Page Sucks Dude"

Which I didn't say, because I dont want to discourage beginners, or
frighten them with complicated tech detail like Steve

Thats kinda rude if ya ask me.....

Well if you're not the OP, then your reply is also rude And I didn't ask.

--


x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #

 

[Andy Dingley]

This must be a very moody newsgroup...

Think of it as the chilled out, tolerant c.i.w.a.h