Proper place for everything

Discussion in 'Python' started by Jason Benjamin, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. Anybody know of the appropriate place to troll and flame about various
    Python related issues? I'm kind of mad about some Python stuff and I
    need a place to vent where people may or may not listen, but at at least
    respond. Thought this would be a strange question, but I might as well
    start somewhere.
    Jason Benjamin, Nov 2, 2012
    #1
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  2. Jason Benjamin

    Robert Kern Guest

    On 11/2/12 11:20 AM, Jason Benjamin wrote:
    > Anybody know of the appropriate place to troll and flame about various Python
    > related issues? I'm kind of mad about some Python stuff and I need a place to
    > vent where people may or may not listen, but at at least respond. Thought this
    > would be a strange question, but I might as well start somewhere.


    There are plenty of good, free blog hosting options.

    --
    Robert Kern

    "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
    that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
    an underlying truth."
    -- Umberto Eco
    Robert Kern, Nov 2, 2012
    #2
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  3. Jason Benjamin

    Tim Golden Guest

    On 02/11/2012 11:20, Jason Benjamin wrote:
    > Anybody know of the appropriate place to troll and flame about various
    > Python related issues? I'm kind of mad about some Python stuff and I
    > need a place to vent where people may or may not listen, but at at least
    > respond. Thought this would be a strange question, but I might as well
    > start somewhere.


    A Blog seems the obvious choice. If you don't already have one there are
    certainly freely-hosted ones available: blogspot, wordpress, etc.

    TJG
    Tim Golden, Nov 2, 2012
    #3
  4. Am 02.11.2012 12:20, schrieb Jason Benjamin:
    > Anybody know of the appropriate place to troll and flame about various
    > Python related issues? I'm kind of mad about some Python stuff and I
    > need a place to vent where people may or may not listen, but at at least
    > respond. Thought this would be a strange question, but I might as well
    > start somewhere.


    Depending on the kind of responses you want I would try
    alt.comp.zoo.reptiles or maybe a PHP mailinglist. Alternatively, if you
    are willing to invest some real money, I would suggest a good Islay
    single malt or a gym membership. If health, money and time are of no
    importance to you, I heard of these things called girlfriends or
    boyfriends, these could be completely overhyped rumours though.

    Uli
    Ulrich Eckhardt, Nov 2, 2012
    #4
  5. Yeah, alright. I've just found that if you mention anything about a
    library that has well established competitors, the post will tend to get
    ignored here.

    On 11/02/2012 04:38 AM, Robert Kern wrote:
    > On 11/2/12 11:20 AM, Jason Benjamin wrote:
    >> Anybody know of the appropriate place to troll and flame about various
    >> Python
    >> related issues? I'm kind of mad about some Python stuff and I need a
    >> place to
    >> vent where people may or may not listen, but at at least respond.
    >> Thought this
    >> would be a strange question, but I might as well start somewhere.

    >
    > There are plenty of good, free blog hosting options.
    >
    Jason Benjamin, Nov 2, 2012
    #5
  6. Jason Benjamin

    Zero Piraeus Guest

    :

    On 2 November 2012 07:20, Jason Benjamin <> wrote:
    > Anybody know of the appropriate place to troll and flame about various
    > Python related issues?


    I don't know about appropriate, but there'd be a certain amount of
    poetic justice in using one of the alt.conspiracy.* or alt.religion.*
    newsgroups ...

    -[]z.
    Zero Piraeus, Nov 2, 2012
    #6
  7. Jason Benjamin

    Tim Golden Guest

    On 02/11/2012 13:49, Jason Benjamin wrote:
    > Yeah, alright. I've just found that if you mention anything about a
    > library that has well established competitors, the post will tend to get
    > ignored here.


    I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to. (Perhaps you can link to
    an existing post or discussion).

    Without hearing a tone of voice, I'm not sure whether with "... will
    tend to get ignored here" you're suggesting a conspiracy of silence or
    merely a general lack of interest.

    The people who read and post here are the people who read and post here.
    And they comment according to whatever interests them or whatever
    opinions they hold. That people choose to respond to a post about
    Library A and not to one about Library B should not be construed as
    representing any kind of behind-the-scenes action encouraging or
    suppressing interest. It simply means that the people who felt like it
    commented on Library A and not on Library B.

    Or have I misunderstood the tenor of your comment?

    TJG
    Tim Golden, Nov 2, 2012
    #7
  8. On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 06:49:18 -0700, Jason Benjamin
    <> declaimed the following in
    gmane.comp.python.general:

    > Yeah, alright. I've just found that if you mention anything about a
    > library that has well established competitors, the post will tend to get
    > ignored here.
    >

    Interesting... The oldest post still in my news reader's cache is
    October 17.

    Since that time, there are only two posts under your name in that
    cache, both in this thread. You should maybe provide some link to such a
    post so late-comers or others can find them... a message-ID could be
    useful...

    I'll concede some posts may have been removed from the cache due to
    filter actions (though for this group as found on gmane I only have
    three active filters, and your name is not in any of them).
    --
    Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
    Dennis Lee Bieber, Nov 2, 2012
    #8
  9. It's a *really* old post, but it was back when I was first started
    learning Python when Python 3 wasn't out yet. It was a dumb question so
    I can see why people wouldn't have had interest in answering it, but I
    had been developing a game and wanted to find a recommendation on a GUI
    toolkit. Now that that's out, yes, I realize I could have searched the
    Internet for some ideas, but I tend to have tunnel vision when it comes
    to the Internet, much like modern teenagers seem to only realize they
    can communicate with Facebook. The incident may have been isolated, but
    I stereotype.


    On 11/02/2012 10:31 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
    > On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 06:49:18 -0700, Jason Benjamin
    > <> declaimed the following in
    > gmane.comp.python.general:
    >
    >> Yeah, alright. I've just found that if you mention anything about a
    >> library that has well established competitors, the post will tend to get
    >> ignored here.
    >>

    > Interesting... The oldest post still in my news reader's cache is
    > October 17.
    >
    > Since that time, there are only two posts under your name in that
    > cache, both in this thread. You should maybe provide some link to such a
    > post so late-comers or others can find them... a message-ID could be
    > useful...
    >
    > I'll concede some posts may have been removed from the cache due to
    > filter actions (though for this group as found on gmane I only have
    > three active filters, and your name is not in any of them).
    >
    Jason Benjamin, Nov 2, 2012
    #9
  10. On another note, it appears that Google (the only archive I can find for
    this group) only has a little under 400 messages archived for this
    group, while the slackware newsgroup has upwards 40,000 and contains
    posts I can't even remember that were made with one of the first emails
    I've ever used.

    On 11/02/2012 10:31 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
    > On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 06:49:18 -0700, Jason Benjamin
    > <> declaimed the following in
    > gmane.comp.python.general:
    >
    >> Yeah, alright. I've just found that if you mention anything about a
    >> library that has well established competitors, the post will tend to get
    >> ignored here.
    >>

    > Interesting... The oldest post still in my news reader's cache is
    > October 17.
    >
    > Since that time, there are only two posts under your name in that
    > cache, both in this thread. You should maybe provide some link to such a
    > post so late-comers or others can find them... a message-ID could be
    > useful...
    >
    > I'll concede some posts may have been removed from the cache due to
    > filter actions (though for this group as found on gmane I only have
    > three active filters, and your name is not in any of them).
    >
    Jason Benjamin, Nov 2, 2012
    #10
  11. Jason Benjamin

    Tim Golden Guest

    Tim Golden, Nov 2, 2012
    #11
  12. Yeah, now that I take a look at the said old post on this group, I can
    see why the post was ignored:

    http://markmail.org/thread/mnxpzt4jzx3zjeio

    On 11/02/2012 01:05 PM, Tim Golden wrote:
    > On 02/11/2012 18:51, Jason Benjamin wrote:
    >> On another note, it appears that Google (the only archive I can find for
    >> this group) only has a little under 400 messages archived for this
    >> group

    >
    > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/
    >
    >
    > http://markmail.org/search/?q=python#query:python list:org.python.python-list page:1 state:facets
    >
    >
    > and doubtless others.
    >
    > TJG
    >
    Jason Benjamin, Nov 2, 2012
    #12
  13. On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 04:20:20 -0700, Jason Benjamin wrote:

    > Anybody know of the appropriate place to troll and flame about various
    > Python related issues? I'm kind of mad about some Python stuff and I
    > need a place to vent where people may or may not listen, but at at least
    > respond. Thought this would be a strange question, but I might as well
    > start somewhere.


    Thank you for your honesty, but trolling is not welcome.

    However if you have actual issues about Python, either pro or con, and
    hope to have a serious, respectful dialog where both parties listen to
    each other, feel free to raise them here. Keep in mind three things:

    - We've probably heard all your arguments a thousand times before. It's
    unlikely that you are either the first or the last person to notice
    that (e.g.) Python has significant indentation. So expect a certain
    amount of brusqueness.

    - If your argument boils down to "Python isn't <insert language here>"
    we will not be sympathetic, and will probably sneer or laugh at you
    privately. And possibly publicly too.

    - If you hope to convince the Python community to change <feature X>,
    we are constrained by backwards-compatibility issues, policies, and
    design decisions. Frequently there are (mis-)features that we simply
    have to live with, for good or ill.


    --
    Steven
    Steven D'Aprano, Nov 2, 2012
    #13
  14. On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 11:51:29 -0700, Jason Benjamin wrote:

    > On another note, it appears that Google (the only archive I can find for
    > this group) only has a little under 400 messages archived for this
    > group,


    Google Groups is poison. If you post with it, you will be ignored by a
    large percentage of the regulars here.

    Good options are:

    - Use the official email mailing list instead of news:

    http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

    Do yourself (and us) a HUGE favour and use regular mail, not daily
    digests.

    - If you prefer Usenet, and your ISP gives you access to comp.lang.python,
    use that.

    - If not, there are many cheap Usenet providers you can try.

    - Try http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general


    Bad options are:

    - Absolutely anything to do with Google Groups. It's a crap user-
    interface, posts don't follow established standards for email and news,
    and Google requires you to sign in just to read the archives, which in
    my opinion is morally indefensible.



    --
    Steven
    Steven D'Aprano, Nov 2, 2012
    #14
  15. On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 13:48:27 -0700, Jason Benjamin wrote:

    > Yeah, now that I take a look at the said old post on this group, I can
    > see why the post was ignored:
    >
    > http://markmail.org/thread/mnxpzt4jzx3zjeio


    Good lord man, that was FOUR AND A HALF YEARS AGO. Have you been holding
    a grudge for all that time? Maybe nobody knew the answer. I certainly
    don't.

    The question was:

    Steven D'Aprano, Nov 2, 2012
    #15
  16. Jason Benjamin

    Aahz Guest

    In article <509441cb$0$29967$c3e8da3$>,
    Steven D'Aprano <> wrote:
    >On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 04:20:20 -0700, Jason Benjamin wrote:
    >>
    >> Anybody know of the appropriate place to troll and flame about various
    >> Python related issues? I'm kind of mad about some Python stuff and I
    >> need a place to vent where people may or may not listen, but at at least
    >> respond. Thought this would be a strange question, but I might as well
    >> start somewhere.

    >
    >Thank you for your honesty, but trolling is not welcome.
    >
    >However if you have actual issues about Python, either pro or con, and
    >hope to have a serious, respectful dialog where both parties listen to
    >each other, feel free to raise them here. Keep in mind three things:
    >
    >- We've probably heard all your arguments a thousand times before. It's
    > unlikely that you are either the first or the last person to notice
    > that (e.g.) Python has significant indentation. So expect a certain
    > amount of brusqueness.
    >
    >- If your argument boils down to "Python isn't <insert language here>"
    > we will not be sympathetic, and will probably sneer or laugh at you
    > privately. And possibly publicly too.
    >
    >- If you hope to convince the Python community to change <feature X>,
    > we are constrained by backwards-compatibility issues, policies, and
    > design decisions. Frequently there are (mis-)features that we simply
    > have to live with, for good or ill.


    You forgot the fourth point.
    --
    Aahz () <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

    "....Normal is what cuts off your sixth finger and your tail..." --Siobhan
    Aahz, Nov 4, 2012
    #16
  17. On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 22:19:19 -0700, Aahz wrote:

    > In article <509441cb$0$29967$c3e8da3$>, Steven
    > D'Aprano <> wrote:
    >>On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 04:20:20 -0700, Jason Benjamin wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Anybody know of the appropriate place to troll and flame about various
    >>> Python related issues? I'm kind of mad about some Python stuff and I
    >>> need a place to vent where people may or may not listen, but at at
    >>> least respond. Thought this would be a strange question, but I might
    >>> as well start somewhere.

    >>
    >>Thank you for your honesty, but trolling is not welcome.
    >>
    >>However if you have actual issues about Python, either pro or con, and
    >>hope to have a serious, respectful dialog where both parties listen to
    >>each other, feel free to raise them here. Keep in mind three things:


    [snip three things]

    > You forgot the fourth point.


    Apparently so did you :)


    --
    Steven
    Steven D'Aprano, Nov 4, 2012
    #17
  18. Jason Benjamin

    Roy Smith Guest

    In article <5096202c$0$29967$c3e8da3$>,
    Steven D'Aprano <> wrote:

    > On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 22:19:19 -0700, Aahz wrote:
    >
    > > In article <509441cb$0$29967$c3e8da3$>, Steven
    > > D'Aprano <> wrote:
    > >>On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 04:20:20 -0700, Jason Benjamin wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>> Anybody know of the appropriate place to troll and flame about various
    > >>> Python related issues? I'm kind of mad about some Python stuff and I
    > >>> need a place to vent where people may or may not listen, but at at
    > >>> least respond. Thought this would be a strange question, but I might
    > >>> as well start somewhere.
    > >>
    > >>Thank you for your honesty, but trolling is not welcome.
    > >>
    > >>However if you have actual issues about Python, either pro or con, and
    > >>hope to have a serious, respectful dialog where both parties listen to
    > >>each other, feel free to raise them here. Keep in mind three things:

    >
    > [snip three things]
    >
    > > You forgot the fourth point.

    >
    > Apparently so did you :)


    "Amongst the points are such diverse elements as..."
    Roy Smith, Nov 4, 2012
    #18
  19. Jason Benjamin

    Guest

    On 11/02/2012 04:12 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
    > On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 11:51:29 -0700, Jason Benjamin wrote:
    >
    >> On another note, it appears that Google (the only archive I can find for
    >> this group) only has a little under 400 messages archived for this
    >> group,

    >
    > Google Groups is poison. If you post with it, you will be ignored by a
    > large percentage of the regulars here.
    >[...]
    > Bad options are:
    >
    > - Absolutely anything to do with Google Groups. It's a crap user-
    > interface, posts don't follow established standards for email and news,
    > and Google requires you to sign in just to read the archives, which in
    > my opinion is morally indefensible.


    Jason,

    You should also be aware that there are a number of
    people here such as myself that use Google Groups for
    various reasons and there is concurrently some discussion
    of this in other threads including the correction of
    just plain erroneous info about GG that has been
    propagated here.

    AFAIK, there is no real definition of "regular" nor
    any count of how many of them (whoever "them" is) that
    ignore GG. Pretty obviously "crap user interface" is
    in the eye of the beholder and the login requirement
    is a personal issue.
    , Nov 5, 2012
    #19
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