qooxlisp live

[Kenneth Tilton]

The qooxlisp apropos example can now actually be run here (ignore the
site name):

http://www.teamalgebra.com/

For additional laughs, the server is running on a $2/day Amazon EC2
Fedora Core 8. So it might disappear spontaneously.

Unfortunately I am intermittently having FireFox/IE* not want to
acknowledge when I hit Enter, in which case you won't be able to play
much. I'll investigate and/or put the search button back in to beat the
thing into submission.

kt

* I just got a report of a Chrome user having the same problem, so I am
starting to think I am sometimes** sending the JS over such that it runs
in the wrong order.

** Cells by default orders non-deterministically. There is a mechanism
for corralling the beast where this pisses off an external library, but
these cases have to be identified and coded for. Methinks I have such a
case -- browsers that generally do not work have been observed to work.
Then not again.

kt

 

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

The qooxlisp apropos example can now actually be run here (ignore the
site name):

http://www.teamalgebra.com/

For additional laughs, the server is running on a $2/day Amazon EC2
Fedora Core 8. So it might disappear spontaneously.

Unfortunately I am intermittently having FireFox/IE* not want to
acknowledge when I hit Enter, in which case you won't be able to play
much. I'll investigate and/or put the search button back in to beat the
thing into submission.

A ca. 3 MiB(!) download thanks to 344 HTTP requests (including 333(!)
requests for script resources, which amount to ca. 3 MiB) that takes 1 min
48 s(!) to load on a very broad Internet connection and a considerably fast
system. And when it has finally loaded it shows only a simple form that
stalls Iceweasel (Firefox): "A script on this page may be busy, or it may
have stopped respnding ...". And you are saying this is but an *example*?

Either you are not serious or you are completely nuts.

In any case, thanks for showing us why not to use qooxdoo and code based on
it.


PointedEars

 

[Gregor Kofler]

Am 2010-06-07 22:26, Kenneth Tilton meinte:

The qooxlisp apropos example can now actually be run here (ignore the
site name):

http://www.teamalgebra.com/

For additional laughs, the server is running on a $2/day Amazon EC2
Fedora Core 8. So it might disappear spontaneously.

Unfortunately I am intermittently having FireFox/IE* not want to
acknowledge when I hit Enter, in which case you won't be able to play
much. I'll investigate and/or put the search button back in to beat the
thing into submission.

kt

* I just got a report of a Chrome user having the same problem, so I am
starting to think I am sometimes** sending the JS over such that it runs
in the wrong order.

** Cells by default orders non-deterministically. There is a mechanism
for corralling the beast where this pisses off an external library, but
these cases have to be identified and coded for. Methinks I have such a
case -- browsers that generally do not work have been observed to work.
Then not again.

*Now* I get the picture. This is some large scale proof by you, that
qooxdoo is the usual library crap and cannot be recommended. Smart. You
are putting a lot of effort into that. I'm sorry that I can't admire
your work, but loading the page just takes too long...

Gregor

 

[Kenneth Tilton]

A ca. 3 MiB(!) download

Wow, I better do a "release build" after all. Stay tuned.

thanks to 344 HTTP requests (including 333(!)
requests for script resources, which amount to ca. 3 MiB) that takes 1 min
48 s(!) to load on a very broad Internet connection and a considerably fast
system.

I can load in 4-5s. Sometimes a browser and my (lisp) server do not get
along and the server feeds files in a trickle, like 3/sec. Have not
figured out what that is all about, but resetting the browser works (at
least for Safari).

And when it has finally loaded it shows only a simple form that
stalls Iceweasel (Firefox): "A script on this page may be busy, or it may
have stopped respnding ...". And you are saying this is but an *example*?

Either you are not serious or you are completely nuts.

In any case, thanks for showing us why not to use qooxdoo and code based on
it.

It's what I live for, confirming your unthinking prejudices.

kt

 

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

The qooxlisp apropos example can now actually be run here (ignore the
site name):

http://www.teamalgebra.com/
[...]

A ca. 3 MiB(!) download

Wow, I better do a "release build" after all. Stay tuned.

That wouldn't increase the overall code quality, would it?

thanks to 344 HTTP requests (including 333(!)
requests for script resources, which amount to ca. 3 MiB) that takes 1
min 48 s(!) to load on a very broad Internet connection and a
considerably fast system.

I can load in 4-5s. [...]

I hate to break this to you, stupid, but you are really not alone on the Net
or on client systems. Loading 3 MiB in 4 to 5 seconds requires a constant
transfer rate of 614.5 to 768 KiB/s (not kbps; you may want to look up
common transfer rates, especially on mobiles). Good luck finding someone to
save all their bandwidth for your crappy scripts (you're going to need it).


PointedEars

 

[RobG]

The qooxlisp apropos example can now actually be run here (ignore the
site name):

http://www.teamalgebra.com/

With javascript disabled, it shows a blank page.

Enabling javascript, the page took nearly 4 minutes to load.
Downloading 335 files totalling 3MB is going to take a very long time
on any system.

Once viewed, the page is dysfunctional in both Firefox 3.6 and IE 6. I
can't get it to do anything, are there instructions?


[...]

Unfortunately I am intermittently having FireFox/IE* not want to
acknowledge when I hit Enter, in which case you won't be able to play
much.

"Intermittent" is an understatement, it doesn't work at all.

I'll investigate and/or put the search button back in to beat the
thing into submission.

You knew it was dysfunctional but posted a link anyway. Thanks.


[...]

--http://www.stuckonalgebra.com

Presumably you have some relationship with that site. Even though it
is HTML 4.01 Transitional, the W3C validator finds 27 errors.

"The best Algebra tutorial program I have seen... in a class by itself."
Macworld

Quotes without meaningful attribution make me suspicious.

According to the "stuckonalgebra" site, there is no Mac version, which
left me wondering what was reviwed and when, given that Macworld is a
Mac-specific magazine. A search revealed that the quote is from a
superficial review[1] of "Algebra I Homework Tutor from Missing Link
Software" in April 1991.

There seems to be a pattern here that does not leave a good
impression.


1. <URL: http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/macworld.html >

 

[Kenneth Tilton]

With javascript disabled, it shows a blank page.

Possibly related to this being a javascript library? The next version
has a noscript chunk to help you out.

Enabling javascript, the page took nearly 4 minutes to load.

I get that, too, sometimes. Not sure what's going on. Possibly the
server is being silly, because other times it loads in 4-5s.

What browser/OS?

Downloading 335 files totalling 3MB is going to take a very long time
on any system.

No, I normally get 4-5s. Any time it hangs I reset the browser (not that
that should be necessary) and then I get 4-5s.

Anyway, I just did a "release build" and it's one file, 989kb. Not
nothing, but should be even better.

Once viewed, the page is dysfunctional in both Firefox 3.6 and IE 6. I
can't get it to do anything, are there instructions?

I am starting to think it's my bug. The next release will have a
"Search" button I suspect will work so you can at least have some fun.
I'll try adding some instructions to the page itself.

[...]

Unfortunately I am intermittently having FireFox/IE* not want to
acknowledge when I hit Enter, in which case you won't be able to play
much.

"Intermittent" is an understatement, it doesn't work at all.

I know the feeling, but messing around at one point it did start working
in both.

You knew it was dysfunctional but posted a link anyway. Thanks.

I try.

[...]

--http://www.stuckonalgebra.com

Presumably you have some relationship with that site. Even though it
is HTML 4.01 Transitional, the W3C validator finds 27 errors.

Go flame Yahoo SiteBuilder.

Quotes without meaningful attribution make me suspicious.

You never heard of Macworld?

According to the "stuckonalgebra" site, there is no Mac version,

The Mac does not have Web browsers? You have a scoop.

which
left me wondering what was reviwed and when, given that Macworld is a
Mac-specific magazine. A search revealed that the quote is from a
superficial review[1] of "Algebra I Homework Tutor from Missing Link
Software" in April 1991.

If "in a class by itself" is superficial, I'll take it.

 

[Kenneth Tilton]

Am 2010-06-07 22:26, Kenneth Tilton meinte:

*Now* I get the picture. This is some large scale proof by you, that
qooxdoo is the usual library crap and cannot be recommended. Smart. You
are putting a lot of effort into that. I'm sorry that I can't admire
your work, but loading the page just takes too long...

I am so surprised to discover you are drawing conclusions that align
with what you believed before.

kt

 

[Scott Sauyet]

Possibly related to this being a javascript library? The next version
has a noscript chunk to help you out.

I get that, too, sometimes. Not sure what's going on. Possibly the
server is being silly, because other times it loads in 4-5s.

I tested with a very fast connection and fast computer, and it never
loaded in less than 8 seconds. Testing now at home over a mediocre
DSL, it's around 100 seconds on an empty cache.

No, I normally get 4-5s. Any time it hangs I reset the browser (not that
that should be necessary) and then I get 4-5s.

Anyway, I just did a "release build" and it's one file, 989kb. Not
nothing, but should be even better.

There are regular complaints on this group about the size of a 70KB
(unzipped) file. Is all that really necessary for this relatively
simple page?

I try.

You try to what, annoy the hell out of everyone here?

[...]

--http://www.stuckonalgebra.com

Presumably you have some relationship with that site. Even though it
is HTML 4.01 Transitional, the W3C validator finds 27 errors.

Go flame Yahoo SiteBuilder.

Or better yet, the person who posted it as an example...

You never heard of Macworld?

http://www.google.com/search?q="The+best+Algebra+tutorial+program+I+have+seen"+site:macworld.com

returns no results... Do you have a more detailed reference?

According to the "stuckonalgebra" site, there is no Mac version,

The Mac does not have Web browsers? You have a scoop.

which
left me wondering what was reviwed and when, given that Macworld is a
Mac-specific magazine. A search revealed that the quote is from a
superficial review[1] of "Algebra I Homework Tutor from Missing Link
Software" in April 1991.

If "in a class by itself" is superficial, I'll take it.

Are you telling us that this ran on a Mac web browser in 1991?

 

[RobG]

Possibly related to this being a javascript library? The next version
has a noscript chunk to help you out.

Good, but even better would be to have a plain HTML page that at least
has some information about what the site is about, what it is supposed
to demonstrate and some examples of its use.

I get that, too, sometimes. Not sure what's going on. Possibly the
server is being silly, because other times it loads in 4-5s.

As Thomas said, if you think 3MB will take 5 seconds to load, you want
approximately 25Mb to download at about 5mb/s. That's not including
the 355 HTTP requests, intermediate browser processing, dropped
packets, headers, etc. You are depending on caching quite a bit. Your
(missing) introduction page could explain some of that so at least
users are aware of the possible lengthy delay before making a decision
about proceeding.

What browser/OS?

The browsers are below, the OS is Windows XP.

No, I normally get 4-5s. Any time it hangs I reset the browser (not that
that should be necessary) and then I get 4-5s.

What do you mean by "reset"? Restart? Close a tab and re-open? Clear
the cache?

Anyway, I just did a "release build" and it's one file, 989kb. Not
nothing, but should be even better.

That should help, but will still require quite a bit of time and users
should be warned so they can make their own decision about whether or
not to proceed.

I am starting to think it's my bug. The next release will have a
"Search" button I suspect will work so you can at least have some fun.
I'll try adding some instructions to the page itself.

Or to an introduction page that can be left open in another tab or
window at the user's discretion.


[...]

--http://www.stuckonalgebra.com [...]
"The best Algebra tutorial program I have seen... in a class by itself."
Macworld

Quotes without meaningful attribution make me suspicious.

You never heard of Macworld?

Yes, but the attribution is incomplete (and the reader is left
wondering why).

The Mac does not have Web browsers? You have a scoop.

Whether or not there are browsers for Mac OS is irrelevant. I can't
find a link to a web version on that site, all links eventually lead
to a download page that states:

| Pick your operating system:
| 1. Windows XP
| 2. Windows Vista or Windows 7
| 3. Mac OS X (coming soon!)

The site does not offer a browser version and *states* that there is
no Mac version. Whether there are browsers for Mac OS is irrelevant at
this point.

which
left me wondering what was reviwed and when, given that Macworld is a
Mac-specific magazine. A search revealed that the quote is from a
superficial review[1] of "Algebra I Homework Tutor from Missing Link
Software" in April 1991.

If "in a class by itself" is superficial, I'll take it.

The *review* is superficial and nearly 20 years old, before the WWW
was invented. Even if there is a web-based version available now, the
review is of an entirely different product from an eon ago and
therefore irrelevant.

It's like IBM claiming technical competence based on a 1930s review of
their electric accounting machine[1].

1. <URL: http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/vintage/vintage_4506VV9012.html

 

[Adam Harvey]

With javascript disabled, it shows a blank page.

Enabling javascript, the page took nearly 4 minutes to load. Downloading
335 files totalling 3MB is going to take a very long time on any system.

For an additional data point (and example of exactly why having 350+
dependencies for a single page is a problem): it took 3 minutes, 12
seconds here. I have a rather fast Internet connection, but since I'm
geographically a long way from the server, each request has a latency in
the 275 millisecond range before anything useful is transferred. That
adds up rather quickly with that many requests.

Once viewed, the page is dysfunctional in both Firefox 3.6 and IE 6. I
can't get it to do anything, are there instructions?

It seems to work for me in Firefox 3.6, although I don't have a clue what
it's actually supposed to do.

Adam

 

[Kenneth Tilton]

I tested with a very fast connection and fast computer, and it never
loaded in less than 8 seconds.

Yeah, I lied. I get 11s or so. The 4-5s was what I remembered from
loading from localhost.

Testing now at home over a mediocre
DSL, it's around 100 seconds on an empty cache.

I sometimes see it loading the 300+ files 4/s, never wait around to see
it finish. I think the Lisp server I use might be doing that.

For me, resetting the browser gets it back to loading in 10+s.

Anyway, I just did a "release build" and it makes one file, 989kb.
Trying to get that working for a release 2.0.

There are regular complaints on this group about the size of a 70KB
(unzipped) file. Is all that really necessary for this relatively
simple page?

I think it's like Lisp applications: even "Hello World" will end up with
most of Lisp in there. One could go crazy trying to have a build
procedure take out uneccessary code, but then (a) how much would one
save and (b) why bother? These frameworks are for RIAs, which will
indeed use many components of a framework. The only beneficiary would be
small demos, which I suspect is not worth the trouble. And libraries are
pyramids -- that "simple" demo uses a nice variety of widgets, including
a remote table with scrolling, movable and hidable columns, one column
data renderer, and probably reaches down into a lot of code.

You try to what, annoy the hell out of everyone here?

I believe the people annoyed are the ones who hope to be both annoyed
and annoying, aka, mindlessly abusive of anyone not using raw HTML. Yes,
it gives me great pleasure to annoy them, since they are the ones being
bullies and they totally need to be laughed at, not listened to.

You have a sick little cult in this NG, self-important and posturing,
utterly convinced of themselves while the silent majority just rolls
their eyes at them and gets on with their work. Speaking of which...

[...]
--http://www.stuckonalgebra.com
Presumably you have some relationship with that site. Even though it
is HTML 4.01 Transitional, the W3C validator finds 27 errors.

Go flame Yahoo SiteBuilder.

Or better yet, the person who posted it as an example...

You never heard of Macworld?

http://www.google.com/search?q="The+best+Algebra+tutorial+program+I+have+seen"+site:macworld.com

returns no results... Do you have a more detailed reference?

I have the whole review somewhere, but a digital version could be tough
to dig up. If you are seriously interested I'll look for it.

According to the "stuckonalgebra" site, there is no Mac version,

The Mac does not have Web browsers? You have a scoop.

which
left me wondering what was reviwed and when, given that Macworld is a
Mac-specific magazine. A search revealed that the quote is from a
superficial review[1] of "Algebra I Homework Tutor from Missing Link
Software" in April 1991.

If "in a class by itself" is superficial, I'll take it.

Are you telling us that this ran on a Mac web browser in 1991?

No, it was written originally for the Mac, in C. The defter of the
intellects in this group might be able to figure out I have decided to
release it as a web app, hence qooxlisp. ie, plaintiff was confusing the
present with the past.

kt

 

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

I sometimes see it loading the 300+ files 4/s, never wait around to see
it finish. I think the Lisp server I use might be doing that.

For me, resetting the browser gets it back to loading in 10+s.

Anyway, I just did a "release build" and it makes one file, 989kb.
Trying to get that working for a release 2.0.

"kb" means "kilobit" to you too, yes? If no, forget it, you are not ready
for serious Web development.


PointedEars

 

[David Mark]

The qooxlisp apropos example can now actually be run here (ignore the
site name):

   http://www.teamalgebra.com/

With javascript disabled, it shows a blank page.

Enabling javascript, the page took nearly 4 minutes to load.
Downloading 335 files totalling 3MB is going to take a very long time
on any system.

Once viewed, the page is dysfunctional in both Firefox 3.6 and IE 6. I
can't get it to do anything, are there instructions?

 [...]

Unfortunately I am intermittently having FireFox/IE* not want to
acknowledge when I hit Enter, in which case you won't be able to play
much.

"Intermittent" is an understatement, it doesn't work at all.

I'll investigate and/or put the search button back in to beat the
thing into submission.

You knew it was dysfunctional but posted a link anyway. Thanks.

[...]

--http://www.stuckonalgebra.com

Presumably you have some relationship with that site. Even though it
is HTML 4.01 Transitional, the W3C validator finds 27 errors.

"The best Algebra tutorial program I have seen... in a class by itself."
Macworld

Quotes without meaningful attribution make me suspicious.

According to the "stuckonalgebra" site, there is no Mac version, which
left me wondering what was reviwed and when, given that Macworld is a
Mac-specific magazine. A search revealed that the quote is from a
superficial review[1] of "Algebra I Homework Tutor from Missing Link
Software" in April 1991.

There seems to be a pattern here that does not leave a good
impression.

1. <URL:http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/macworld.html>

Yes. Like the repeating background image. But I suppose that's the
least of the worries.

Quite a flair for self-promotion, but folds on interrogation.

 

[David Mark]

Possibly related to this being a javascript library? The next version
has a noscript chunk to help you out.

The page is a Javascript library?!

I get that, too, sometimes. Not sure what's going on. Possibly the
server is being silly, because other times it loads in 4-5s.

What browser/OS?

As if that matters. 3MB is 3MB (and about 2.95MB too much).

No, I normally get 4-5s. Any time it hangs I reset the browser (not that
that should be necessary) and then I get 4-5s.

Anyway, I just did a "release build" and it's one file, 989kb. Not
nothing, but should be even better.

You could fit 8 or 9 copies of My Library (the full build) in that
file, plus all of the add-ons. And you'd actually have a shot at
decent community support (as opposed to commiseration) as well. I
tried to warn you.

Those bloated widgets and OO syntactic sugar are bad for you. Like
junk food, they'll give you a quick rush. Then you come back down to
earth and realize you haven't budged from ground zero.

Once viewed, the page is dysfunctional in both Firefox 3.6 and IE 6. I
can't get it to do anything, are there instructions?

I am starting to think it's my bug. The next release will have a
"Search" button I suspect will work so you can at least have some fun.
I'll try adding some instructions to the page itself.

 [...]

Unfortunately I am intermittently having FireFox/IE* not want to
acknowledge when I hit Enter, in which case you won't be able to play
much.

"Intermittent" is an understatement, it doesn't work at all.

I know the feeling, but messing around at one point it did start working
in both.

You knew it was dysfunctional but posted a link anyway. Thanks.

I try.

[...]

--http://www.stuckonalgebra.com

Presumably you have some relationship with that site. Even though it
is HTML 4.01 Transitional, the W3C validator finds 27 errors.

Go flame Yahoo SiteBuilder.

Technical criticism is not flaming. Go validate your markup.

You never heard of Macworld?

Nope. Okay, perhaps vaguely.

The Mac does not have Web browsers? You have a scoop.

They sure didn't have Web browsers in 1991.

which
left me wondering what was reviwed and when, given that Macworld is a
Mac-specific magazine. A search revealed that the quote is from a
superficial review[1] of "Algebra I Homework Tutor from Missing Link
Software" in April 1991.

If "in a class by itself" is superficial, I'll take it.

You are welcome to it. Just don't toss it around without proper
attribution.

 

[David Mark]

I am so surprised to discover you are drawing conclusions that align
with what you believed before.

And I'm unsurprised that you are clinging to your delusions in the
face of overwhelming evidence.

 

[David Mark]

Yeah, I lied. I get 11s or so. The 4-5s was what I remembered from
loading from localhost.


I sometimes see it loading the 300+ files 4/s, never wait around to see
it finish. I think the Lisp server I use might be doing that.

For me, resetting the browser gets it back to loading in 10+s.

Anyway, I just did a "release build" and it makes one file, 989kb.
Trying to get that working for a release 2.0.





I think it's like Lisp applications: even "Hello World" will end up with
most of Lisp in there.

Oh. How lame.

One could go crazy trying to have a build
procedure take out uneccessary code, but then (a) how much would one
save and (b) why bother? These frameworks are for RIAs, which will
indeed use many components of a framework.

Get real. If components cannot be separated, they aren't components.
And even the most involved RIA's should require no more than 100K
worth of widgets and such. Total.

The only beneficiary would be
small demos, which I suspect is not worth the trouble.

You just have no experience with RIA's.

And libraries are
pyramids -- that "simple" demo uses a nice variety of widgets, including
a remote table with scrolling, movable and hidable columns, one column
data renderer, and probably reaches down into a lot of code.

That's all piffle. There's no such thing as a (sound) UI widget that
takes more than a day to implement. If you have a sound DOM scripting
foundation (you don't), they are all about the same. And if you have
any real experience at all (and you don't), you have most of the basic
ones in stock.

I believe the people annoyed are the ones who hope to be both annoyed
and annoying, aka, mindlessly abusive of anyone not using raw HTML.

Lemon curry?

Yes,
it gives me great pleasure to annoy them, since they are the ones being
bullies and they totally need to be laughed at, not listened to.

And you are doing a hell of a job.

You have a sick little cult in this NG, self-important and posturing,
utterly convinced of themselves while the silent majority just rolls
their eyes at them and gets on with their work. Speaking of which...

All this because you posted a link to a bloated and broken "RIA"?

[...]
--http://www.stuckonalgebra.com
Presumably you have some relationship with that site. Even though it
is HTML 4.01 Transitional, the W3C validator finds 27 errors.
Go flame Yahoo SiteBuilder.

Or better yet, the person who posted it as an example...

returns no results...  Do you have a more detailed reference?

I have the whole review somewhere, but a digital version could be tough
to dig up. If you are seriously interested I'll look for it.

The check's in the mail?

 

[Kenneth Tilton]

Normally, eleven seconds. Sometimes in some browsers the server (I think
the server is doing this) decides to give up only 2-4 files/second. Yes,
that slows things down a bit.

The good news is that I almost have the "release build" version working,
and that is ~900kb in one file. Should help.

For an additional data point (and example of exactly why having 350+
dependencies for a single page is a problem): it took 3 minutes, 12
seconds here. I have a rather fast Internet connection, but since I'm
geographically a long way from the server, each request has a latency in
the 275 millisecond range before anything useful is transferred. That
adds up rather quickly with that many requests.


It seems to work for me in Firefox 3.6, although I don't have a clue what
it's actually supposed to do.

Search the lisp server for any source code name containing the supplied
search string. Try "qx" or "qxl" to see names used in presenting the
interface you are using.

I'll sneak in a label to that effect now that I am spamming outside the
lisp community.

kt

 

[Kenneth Tilton]

[...]

--http://www.stuckonalgebra.com [...]
"The best Algebra tutorial program I have seen... in a class by itself."
Macworld
Quotes without meaningful attribution make me suspicious.

You never heard of Macworld?

Yes, but the attribution is incomplete (and the reader is left
wondering why).

The Mac does not have Web browsers? You have a scoop.

Whether or not there are browsers for Mac OS is irrelevant. I can't
find a link to a web version on that site, all links eventually lead
to a download page that states:

| Pick your operating system:
| 1. Windows XP
| 2. Windows Vista or Windows 7
| 3. Mac OS X (coming soon!)

The site does not offer a browser version and *states* that there is
no Mac version. Whether there are browsers for Mac OS is irrelevant at
this point.

which
left me wondering what was reviwed and when, given that Macworld is a
Mac-specific magazine. A search revealed that the quote is from a
superficial review[1] of "Algebra I Homework Tutor from Missing Link
Software" in April 1991.

If "in a class by itself" is superficial, I'll take it.

The *review* is superficial and nearly 20 years old, before the WWW
was invented. Even if there is a web-based version available now, the
review is of an entirely different product from an eon ago and
therefore irrelevant.

It's like IBM claiming technical competence based on a 1930s review of
their electric accounting machine[1].

1. <URL: http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/vintage/vintage_4506VV9012.html

Dude, I am sharing a new Javascript framework, not promoting the Algebra
software. Someone decided to go OT and root around in my sig for further
opportunities to be a Usenet jerk.

Meanwhile, fifteen years after the fact two educators separately and
independently dug me up and asked if there is any way they could get the
old version running since even now there is nothing like it and since it
really helped their students significantly.

Why are you guys so negative?

Just to help the autistics out there, that is a rhetorical question.

kt

 

[Kenneth Tilton]

Those bloated widgets and OO syntactic sugar are bad for you. Like
junk food, they'll give you a quick rush. Then you come back down to
earth and realize you haven't budged from ground zero.

You sound like me talking about 4GLs. ie, I know the issue and fully
considered it. The balance is in favor of having a great library that
takes a bit longer to load. We can continue this after I install the
"build" version which has the thing down to anywhere between 850-1059kb
in one file, depending on the optimizations I turn on.

btw, the Amazon AWS UI uses YUI. I guess they do not know anything about
web programming either.

kt