Regarding banking software

Discussion in 'Java' started by Navnath Gadakh, Oct 1, 2012.

  1. i am new to java and i want to develop one banking software in how start and what framework or shall i use plan java plz help?

    Thanks in adv
     
    Navnath Gadakh, Oct 1, 2012
    #1
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  2. Navnath Gadakh

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 21:25:35 -0700 (PDT), Navnath Gadakh
    <> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
    who said :

    > i am new to java and i want to develop one banking software in how start and what framework or shall i use plan java plz help?


    Much banking software are batch processes. The only auxiliary tool
    you would need in as database . See
    http://mindprod.com/jgloss/sql.html

    For clerks to make transactions, you might use Java programs for data
    entry then send data to a server.

    For customer online banking you would likely use a browser sending CGI
    transactions to a servlet womb. See
    http://mindprod.com/jgloss/servletwomb.html

    Since banking software tends to have a very long life it is important
    to base your code only on tools likely to have a long life and to have
    plug-in replacements.
    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products http://mindprod.com
    The iPhone 5 is a low end Rolex.
     
    Roedy Green, Oct 1, 2012
    #2
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  3. Navnath Gadakh

    bob smith Guest

    On Sunday, September 30, 2012 11:25:35 PM UTC-5, Navnath Gadakh wrote:
    > i am new to java and i want to develop one banking software in how start and what framework or shall i use plan java plz help?
    >
    >
    >
    > Thanks in adv


    It sounds like you will want to use Swing with a MySQL backend.

    Also, be careful with float and double rounding errors.
     
    bob smith, Oct 1, 2012
    #3
  4. Navnath Gadakh

    Lew Guest

    bob smith wrote:
    > Navnath Gadakh wrote:
    >> i [sic] am new to java and i want to develop one banking software in how start and what
    >> framework or shall i use plan java [sic] plz help?


    Don't pick a framework or even a language until you know at least in some detail what your
    system will do.

    > It sounds like you will want to use Swing with a MySQL backend.


    Based on what?

    That is an insane answer.

    If it's a Web application then Swing could be the wrong choice.

    MySQL is likely the wrong choice.

    Would you use Swing to calculate the interest on a credit card? (Trick question.)

    Navnath - pay no attention to anyone who recommends a particular package or
    software framework at this stage. It's not even clear that Java is the right choice.

    > Also, be careful with float and double rounding errors.


    There should be no use of 'float' in financial calculations. I have heard people
    defend the use of 'double' for certain use cases, but I am dubious of that
    reasoning. I would avoid 'double'.

    Obviously this doesn't apply to screen coordinates in your Swing classes.

    Of which there may be none.

    "Banking software" is a large topic and a huge universe of functionality, most of
    which is out of reach of the typical one-person shop. What is your intent? What
    scope? Who's the audience for your product?

    --
    Lew
     
    Lew, Oct 1, 2012
    #4
  5. Navnath Gadakh

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    On 10/1/2012 12:25 AM, Navnath Gadakh wrote:
    > i am new to java and i want to develop one banking software in how start and what framework or shall i use plan java plz help?


    For a toy bank application: learn a lot about Java and then start.
    The topic is far too big to cover in a usenet post.

    For a real bank application: contact a lot of VC companies to get
    funding to hire 500 developers.

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, Oct 2, 2012
    #5
  6. Navnath Gadakh

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    On 10/1/2012 1:26 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
    > On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 21:25:35 -0700 (PDT), Navnath Gadakh
    > <> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
    > who said :
    >> i am new to java and i want to develop one banking software in how start and what framework or shall i use plan java plz help?

    >
    > Much banking software are batch processes. The only auxiliary tool
    > you would need in as database . See
    > http://mindprod.com/jgloss/sql.html


    I would expect a bank application to use dozens if not hundreds of
    tools and frameworks.

    > For clerks to make transactions, you might use Java programs for data
    > entry then send data to a server.
    >
    > For customer online banking you would likely use a browser sending CGI
    > transactions to a servlet womb.


    The CGI spec does not contain anything about transactions.

    And I am not aware of any servlet container that can be
    run via CGI (for good reasons - the startup time would
    kill performance).

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, Oct 2, 2012
    #6
  7. Navnath Gadakh

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    On 10/1/2012 4:10 PM, bob smith wrote:
    > On Sunday, September 30, 2012 11:25:35 PM UTC-5, Navnath Gadakh wrote:
    >> i am new to java and i want to develop one banking software in how start and what framework or shall i use plan java plz help?

    >
    > It sounds like you will want to use Swing with a MySQL backend.


    It is one UI and one database, but there are plenty of alternatives.

    > Also, be careful with float and double rounding errors.


    Better just avoid float and double completely when dealing with money!

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, Oct 2, 2012
    #7
  8. Navnath Gadakh

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    On 10/1/2012 4:59 PM, Lew wrote:
    > bob smith wrote:
    >> Navnath Gadakh wrote:
    >>> i [sic] am new to java and i want to develop one banking software in how start and what
    >>> framework or shall i use plan java [sic] plz help?


    >> It sounds like you will want to use Swing with a MySQL backend.

    >
    > Based on what?
    >
    > That is an insane answer.


    It is one out of a large number of possible combinations.

    No reason to pick that but then no reason to not pick it either.

    > If it's a Web application then Swing could be the wrong choice.
    >
    > MySQL is likely the wrong choice.


    Why?

    There are companies that run billion dollar businesses on MySQL.

    >> Also, be careful with float and double rounding errors.

    >
    > There should be no use of 'float' in financial calculations. I have heard people
    > defend the use of 'double' for certain use cases, but I am dubious of that
    > reasoning. I would avoid 'double'.


    I completely agree.

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, Oct 2, 2012
    #8
  9. Navnath Gadakh

    David Lamb Guest

    On 01/10/2012 12:25 AM, Navnath Gadakh wrote:
    > i am new to java and i want to develop one banking software in how start and what framework or shall i use plan java plz help?


    What exactly is it you want to do? A bank isn't going to be interested
    in brand-new software; they have massive legacy systems they have to be
    very, very careful not to break. Do you mean something like Quicken that
    manages an individual's records and interacts with an existing online
    banking system? Or are you writing a small experiement to see what the
    bare bones of a banking system might be like? Or something completely
    different?
     
    David Lamb, Oct 2, 2012
    #9
  10. Navnath Gadakh

    Jeff Higgins Guest

    On 10/01/2012 12:25 AM, Navnath Gadakh wrote:
    > i am new to java and i want to develop one banking software in how start and what framework or shall i use plan java plz help?
    >

    Welcome.
    I've not heard of the "how start and what framework" development
    environment.
    Please provide a link.
    At this point I would use plan java plz help.
     
    Jeff Higgins, Oct 2, 2012
    #10
  11. Navnath Gadakh

    bob smith Guest

    On Monday, October 1, 2012 6:44:33 PM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    > On 10/1/2012 4:10 PM, bob smith wrote:
    >
    > > On Sunday, September 30, 2012 11:25:35 PM UTC-5, Navnath Gadakh wrote:

    >
    > >> i am new to java and i want to develop one banking software in how start and what framework or shall i use plan java plz help?

    >
    > >

    >
    > > It sounds like you will want to use Swing with a MySQL backend.

    >
    >
    >
    > It is one UI and one database, but there are plenty of alternatives.
    >
    >
    >
    > > Also, be careful with float and double rounding errors.

    >
    >
    >
    > Better just avoid float and double completely when dealing with money!


    And how will you be calculating interest ?


    >
    >
    >
    > Arne
     
    bob smith, Oct 2, 2012
    #11
  12. Navnath Gadakh

    bob smith Guest

    On Tuesday, October 2, 2012 11:20:03 AM UTC-5, Peter Duniho wrote:
    > On Tue, 2 Oct 2012 07:18:51 -0700 (PDT), bob smith wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > [...]

    >
    > >> Better just avoid float and double completely when dealing with money!

    >
    > >

    >
    > > And how will you be calculating interest ?

    >
    >
    >
    > With a proper decimal numeric format. E.g. BigDecimal. These exist
    >
    > precisely because of this specific issue.


    Don't you need to be able to raise to a floating point power for interest? (i.e. not an integer)
     
    bob smith, Oct 2, 2012
    #12
  13. Navnath Gadakh

    bob smith Guest

    On Tuesday, October 2, 2012 2:05:00 PM UTC-5, Peter Duniho wrote:
    > On Tue, 2 Oct 2012 11:59:01 -0700 (PDT), bob smith wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Tuesday, October 2, 2012 11:20:03 AM UTC-5, Peter Duniho wrote:

    >
    > >> On Tue, 2 Oct 2012 07:18:51 -0700 (PDT), bob smith wrote:

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >>> [...]

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >>>> Better just avoid float and double completely when dealing with money!

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >>> And how will you be calculating interest ?

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >> With a proper decimal numeric format. E.g. BigDecimal. These exist

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >> precisely because of this specific issue.

    >
    > >

    >
    > > Don't you need to be able to raise to a floating point power for interest? (i.e. not an integer)

    >
    >
    >
    > For example?
    >
    >
    >
    > All my banks simply compute simple interest periodically, compounding as
    >
    > necessary. It's straight multiplication, no exponents necessary.
    >
    >
    >
    > When is a "floating point power" needed? And if it's needed, what is to
    >
    > preclude one from writing a proper decimal implementation rather than
    >
    > improperly using float or double for financial computations?


    If you are just compounding daily, then maybe you don't need it.

    However, it you want to compound continuously, I think you will need it. ( To use P*e^(r*t) )

    And, good luck representing e with your BigDecimal class.
     
    bob smith, Oct 2, 2012
    #13
  14. Navnath Gadakh

    bob smith Guest

    On Tuesday, October 2, 2012 3:34:19 PM UTC-5, Peter Duniho wrote:
    > On Tue, 2 Oct 2012 13:00:20 -0700 (PDT), bob smith wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > [...]

    >
    > > However, it you want to compound continuously, I think you will need it. ( To use P*e^(r*t) )

    >
    >
    >
    > Define "continuously". Do you mean as in computing an integral? What
    >
    > financial institution needs to do that? For what computation? Please
    >
    > provide an actual example.
    >
    >
    >
    > If you simply mean more than one period of compounding, then the finite
    >
    > nature of these computations means that it is sufficient to simply iterate
    >
    > as needed.
    >
    >
    >
    > > And, good luck representing e with your BigDecimal class.

    >
    >
    >
    > Fortunately, e is not a commonly used constant in financial computations.


    I'm talking about this:

    http://www.mathwords.com/c/continuously_compounded_interest.htm

    I don't know if anyone uses it in real life except for math class.
     
    bob smith, Oct 2, 2012
    #14
  15. On Tue, 2 Oct 2012 13:00:20 -0700 (PDT), bob smith
    <> wrote:

    [snip]

    >And, good luck representing e with your BigDecimal class.


    Good luck representing e with floating point.

    I know that either way, one will have an approximation. Do you?

    Sincerely,

    Gene Wirchenko
     
    Gene Wirchenko, Oct 2, 2012
    #15
  16. Peter Duniho <> wrote:
    > On Tue, 2 Oct 2012 13:00:20 -0700 (PDT), bob smith wrote:


    >> [...]
    >> However, it you want to compound continuously, I think you will need it. ( To use P*e^(r*t) )


    > Define "continuously". Do you mean as in computing an integral? What
    > financial institution needs to do that? For what computation? Please
    > provide an actual example.


    Story in my high-school calculus class 30 something years ago was
    that there was a time when banks were competing on compounding.

    I do remember some advertizing as compounding daily. In that
    climate, one bank decided to offer compounding continuously.
    (Maybe after another offered compounding minutely or secondly.)
    The difference gets ever smaller very fast, though.

    Maybe about the same time, there was competition between blender
    companies on how many speeds they had. Six, eight, or more.
    Then one company put a knob on for an infinite number of speeds,
    but no-one would buy them.

    Maybe the same thing happened to banks and interest.

    -- glen
     
    glen herrmannsfeldt, Oct 2, 2012
    #16
  17. Navnath Gadakh

    Lew Guest

    Peter Duniho wrote:
    > bob smith wrote:
    >> [...]
    >> However, it you want to compound continuously, I think you will need it. ( To use P*e^(r*t) )

    >
    > Define "continuously". Do you mean as in computing an integral? What
    > financial institution needs to do that? For what computation? Please
    > provide an actual example.
    >
    > If you simply mean more than one period of compounding, then the finite
    > nature of these computations means that it is sufficient to simply iterate
    > as needed.
    >
    >> And, good luck representing e with your BigDecimal class.


    static final BigDecimal EULERS = new BigDecimal(Math.E);

    What's the big deal? Of course, it's no more accurate than the 'double' representation.

    > Fortunately, e is not a commonly used constant in financial computations.


    --
    Lew
     
    Lew, Oct 2, 2012
    #17
  18. Navnath Gadakh

    David Lamb Guest

    On 02/10/2012 2:59 PM, bob smith wrote:
    > Don't you need to be able to raise to a floating point power for interest? (i.e. not an integer)


    Only for things like present value, which is for financial planning
    rather than managing one's money directly. There are Rules (with a
    capital R) for how many digits to keep for simple interest calculations;
    compounding happens naturally as they add the interest to the principal
    (no exponentiation involved).
     
    David Lamb, Oct 3, 2012
    #18
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