RIse and fall of languages in 2012

Discussion in 'Python' started by Steven D'Aprano, Jan 10, 2013.

  1. "In general-purpose scripting languages, Python continues to grow slowly,
    JavaScript and Ruby are treading water, and Perl continues its long
    decline. According to Google trends, the number of searches for Perl is
    19% of what it was in 2004. Its declining role in open-source communities
    further cements the perception that it's in an irretrievable tailspin.
    One should always be careful pronouncing a language dead or dying,
    because rare resurrections have occurred: JavaScript and Objective-C
    being two stand-out cases. However, Perl is unlikely to see such a new
    lease on life because of direct competition from Python, which is
    considerably more popular (whereas Objective-C and JavaScript had no
    direct equivalents when they came back)."

    http://www.drdobbs.com/jvm/the-rise-and-fall-of-languages-in-2012/240145800


    And from the TIOBE Index, Python is steady at number 8:

    http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html



    --
    Steven
     
    Steven D'Aprano, Jan 10, 2013
    #1
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  2. On 01/10/2013 12:23 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
    > "In general-purpose scripting languages, Python continues to grow slowly,
    > JavaScript and Ruby are treading water, and Perl continues its long
    > decline. According to Google trends, the number of searches for Perl is
    > 19% of what it was in 2004. Its declining role in open-source communities
    > further cements the perception that it's in an irretrievable tailspin.
    > One should always be careful pronouncing a language dead or dying,
    > because rare resurrections have occurred: JavaScript and Objective-C
    > being two stand-out cases. However, Perl is unlikely to see such a new
    > lease on life because of direct competition from Python, which is
    > considerably more popular (whereas Objective-C and JavaScript had no
    > direct equivalents when they came back)."
    >
    > http://www.drdobbs.com/jvm/the-rise-and-fall-of-languages-in-2012/240145800
    >
    >
    > And from the TIOBE Index, Python is steady at number 8:
    >
    > http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html


    The TIOBE index is meaningless. Since it's based on google searches,
    one could probably guess that any language that is awkward and difficult
    will require more searches to figure out how to use the thing. Thus of
    course C is top! Especially if ranked by sarcastic queries like, "C
    sucks," and "why does C suck so much."

    Javascript is doing much more than just "treading water." Javascript
    may not be glamorous but it is *the* glue that makes the web run. Funny
    to see such a reputable journal make such an absurd statement. I can
    buy that Perl is in a slow decline. Certainly I'd use Python for the
    same tasks that people used to use Perl for. In short I see no rise and
    fall of languages in 2012. Seems like business as usual, and the usual
    suspects continue to get steady use.
     
    Michael Torrie, Jan 10, 2013
    #2
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  3. Steven D'Aprano

    John Ladasky Guest

    On Wednesday, January 9, 2013 11:23:51 PM UTC-8, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

    > One should always be careful pronouncing a language dead or dying,


    No kidding!

    https://www.google.com/#q=is fortran still used

    I usually use the query phrase "Why isn't Fortran dead yet?", but you get a better list of links with a less biased phrase.
     
    John Ladasky, Jan 10, 2013
    #3
  4. On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 12:42:49 -0700, Michael Torrie wrote:

    >> And from the TIOBE Index, Python is steady at number 8:
    >>
    >> http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html

    >
    > The TIOBE index is meaningless. Since it's based on google searches,
    > one could probably guess that any language that is awkward and difficult
    > will require more searches to figure out how to use the thing. Thus of
    > course C is top! Especially if ranked by sarcastic queries like, "C
    > sucks," and "why does C suck so much."


    If you have a problem with TIOBE's methodology, feel free to come up with
    your own. Or take it up with them.

    I dispute that TIOBE measures difficulty of language. If it did, Malbolge
    would likely be at the top of the list. Yes, there are sarcastic queries
    asking "C sucks", but that's just measurement error: 21,200 hits for "C
    sucks" versus 9,900,000 for "C programming". It's not as if there is any
    language, not even Python, that is so easy to use that nobody needs to
    write about it.


    > Javascript is doing much more than just "treading water."


    How do you know? What's *your* methodology for determining the popularity
    of a language?

    * "But everybody knows that Javascript is super popular!!!"

    * "All my friends are using Javascript."

    * "I'm a web developer, and I use Javascript for my day job."

    * "I counted 14 job adverts on Monster.com for Javascript devs last week,
    what more evidence does anyone need?"

    * "I googled for `What's the most popular language?` and found a blog
    that says it's Javascript, that's good enough for me."

    * "I have a gut feeling."

    If you are going to criticise TIOBE's methodology, and then make your own
    claims for language popularity, you really need to demonstrate that your
    methodology is better.


    > Javascript
    > may not be glamorous but it is *the* glue that makes the web run.


    And web development is a tiny fraction of all software development.



    --
    Steven
     
    Steven D'Aprano, Jan 10, 2013
    #4
  5. Steven D'Aprano

    Walter Hurry Guest

    On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 07:23:51 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

    > "In general-purpose scripting languages, Python continues to grow
    > slowly, JavaScript and Ruby are treading water, and Perl continues its
    > long decline. According to Google trends, the number of searches for
    > Perl is 19% of what it was in 2004. Its declining role in open-source
    > communities further cements the perception that it's in an irretrievable
    > tailspin.
    > One should always be careful pronouncing a language dead or dying,
    > because rare resurrections have occurred: JavaScript and Objective-C
    > being two stand-out cases. However, Perl is unlikely to see such a new
    > lease on life because of direct competition from Python, which is
    > considerably more popular (whereas Objective-C and JavaScript had no
    > direct equivalents when they came back)."


    Why should we care? We use Python because it's powerful, easy, elegant
    and all the other things.
     
    Walter Hurry, Jan 10, 2013
    #5
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