scrollbars: required standards or tradition?

R

richard

Just to see how it would look, I tried putting the scrollbar of a
fixed dimension division on the left, rather than the default right.

I was wondering, is it more of a tradition to have only a right side
scrollbar, as opposed to left, or is it absolutely required in Latin
based languages?
 
C

C A Upsdell

richard said:
Just to see how it would look, I tried putting the scrollbar of a
fixed dimension division on the left, rather than the default right.

I was wondering, is it more of a tradition to have only a right side
scrollbar, as opposed to left, or is it absolutely required in Latin
based languages?

The left scroll bar will likely confuse users, making the site harder to
use.
 
R

richard

The left scroll bar will likely confuse users, making the site harder to
use.


Years ago during one superbowl there was an advertisement that
appeared only once and changed the way things were done.

People have been brainwashed into thinking that because it's always
done that way, that is the only way it can be done.

If one wants to advance technology, then one must think "outside of
the box" instead of living within it.

So are you a sheeple or a shepherd?
 
A

asdf

richard said:
Years ago during one superbowl there was an advertisement that
appeared only once and changed the way things were done.

People have been brainwashed into thinking that because it's always
done that way, that is the only way it can be done.

If one wants to advance technology, then one must think "outside of
the box" instead of living within it.

So are you a sheeple or a shepherd?

This shepherd has dressed in wolf's clothing methinks (to mess up an already
horrible metaphor) :))

A scrollbar moving from one side to another hardly advances technology. It
provides no extra function or advantage, nor does it make any existing
function better in way. Merely different. I guess there could be a case for
moving it to the left if your site was only ever viewed by left-handers :D

In order to argue the 'advancement of technology' line, one must provide
proof, or at least *reason* for wanting to change an existing 'standard' way
of doing things. One must have a rationale for change, not merely to make
change for changes sake. To do otherwise is merely fashion or fad.

Why go to the bother of presenting something to the user something that
*looks* substantially different, when the thing does exactly the same
things, in the same way, as the *old* thing - except of course you may have
successfully confused, irritated and ultimately *lost* the viewer to another
site?

I've just had a great idea... why doesn't America change the traffic rules
so they all drive on the left hand side of the road? Or perhaps we could
change written English to read from right to left?

The problem is, your example doesn't show evidence of thinking 'outside the
box', you've just made a mirror image of the box. It's still functionally
the same box.

Try thinking outside the triangle, and maybe you'll come up with something
worthwhile :))
 
D

dorayme

richard said:
Just to see how it would look, I tried putting the scrollbar of a
fixed dimension division on the left, rather than the default right.

I was wondering, is it more of a tradition to have only a right side
scrollbar, as opposed to left, or is it absolutely required in Latin
based languages?

Originally, it was proposed to have diagonal scrollbars, they were
supposed to have a sort of vector function to operate both horizontally
and vertically via the one bar. The software was brilliant and worked
fine after it was discovered that there was an optimum shape to the bar:

<http://dorayme.netweaver.com.au/justPics/wigglyscrolling.png>

But the big drawback was that it blocked the view of the content.
Various transparency tricks were used but the whole project ended in
failure. It was moved to the traditional right and bottom.

But I encourage you to experiment and shake up our well worn habits. I
look to young exciting experimenters like you with your various projects
to keep us all from going stale. Good on you, mate!
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Troy said:
* richard wrote :

Which one was that?

Brainwashed? Oh, the Mac parody of "1984?" That certainly has been
shown more than once.
Just curious. Why did you even ask for opinions if you respond
like that when someone gives you theirs?

He's RtS, and his response is "par for the course." His course, of
course.
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

asdf said:
.. I've just had a great idea... why doesn't America change the
traffic rules so they all drive on the left hand side of the road?

Ha! You beat me to it. I was going to suggest RtS put his users in
British cars on his American roads (right-hand steering on right-side
roads). I can just envision the piles of smashed minivans and soccer
moms at all the intersections...

Why screw with the users just because you can?
 
R

richard

Just for you since you're to young to know about it.
The opening scene showed a very large group of people sitting in front
of a huge tv screen. All looked alike, dressed alike and sat there
with blank stares. Mostly the scene appeared in black and white.
Then in comes this gal wearing an athletic outfit, looking like she
had just finished a hearty workout, and in her hand was a huge hammer,
of which she threw at the tv screen which broke it.

In simpler terms, "It's time to break the long over used mold and get
on with something new".
Since it aired that one time, many things and the way things were done
were changed.
 
N

Nik Coughlin

richard said:
Years ago during one superbowl there was an advertisement that
appeared only once and changed the way things were done.

People have been brainwashed into thinking that because it's always
done that way, that is the only way it can be done.

If one wants to advance technology, then one must think "outside of
the box" instead of living within it.

So are you a sheeple or a shepherd?

Yes, all those usability experts who have conducted years of research and
indepth study into user interfaces are just sheep blindly following trends.

Interface elements should be consistent and predictable.

/thread
 
R

rf

Beauregard said:
Ha! You beat me to it. I was going to suggest RtS put his users in
British cars on his American roads (right-hand steering on right-side
roads). I can just envision the piles of smashed minivans and soccer
moms at all the intersections...


New Zealand is considering changing from driving on the left to driving on
the right, as a courtesy to all the European and American trourists who
visit there and spend lots of money.

They are starting with just buses and trucks as a trial.
Why screw with the users just because you can?

If somebody, anybody, anywhere provides some option that helps to convuse
users then somebody, somewhere, will use that option to confuse their users.
RtS has just proved this.
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

richard said:
Just for you since you're to [sic] young to know about it.

The opening scene showed a very large group of people sitting in front
of a huge tv screen. All looked alike, dressed alike and sat there
with blank stares. Mostly the scene appeared in black and white. Then
in comes this gal wearing an athletic outfit, looking like she had
just finished a hearty workout, and in her hand was a huge hammer, of
which she threw at the tv screen which broke it.

Yeah, exactly like the youtube link I gave you. Did you miss that?
In simpler terms, "It's time to break the long over used mold and get
on with something new". Since it aired that one time, many things and
the way things were done were changed.

As I recall, the commercial was shown on air numerous additional times.
Not counting recent "best of superbowl ads" programs.
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

rf said:
New Zealand is considering changing from driving on the left to
driving on the right, as a courtesy to all the European and American
trourists who visit there and spend lots of money.

Like Sweden did a number of years ago...
They are starting with just buses and trucks as a trial.


If somebody, anybody, anywhere provides some option that helps to
convuse users then somebody, somewhere, will use that option to
confuse their users. RtS has just proved this.

He found an option in his RunBasic and couldn't resist.
 
N

nice.guy.nige

While the city slept, Beauregard T. Shagnasty feverishly typed:
Ha! You beat me to it. I was going to suggest RtS put his users in
British cars on his American roads (right-hand steering on right-side
roads). I can just envision the piles of smashed minivans and soccer
moms at all the intersections...

And add into that, the other standard feature of a British (or pretty much
any other non-American) car - the gearstick and clutch combination. :)
Why screw with the users just because you can?

Precisely!

Cheers,
Nige
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

nice.guy.nige said:
While the city slept, Beauregard T. Shagnasty feverishly typed:

And add into that, the other standard feature of a British (or pretty
much any other non-American) car - the gearstick and clutch
combination. :)

In right-hand drive cars, don't you use your left foot for the
accelerator and the right foot for the brake? said:
Precisely!

Blame the author of RunBasic for providing the option... else RtS would
have never thought of it. But he's a sheeple, so he used it.
 
N

nice.guy.nige

While the city slept, Beauregard T. Shagnasty feverishly typed:
Brainwashed? Oh, the Mac parody of "1984?" That certainly has been
shown more than once.

Ah yes, I remember this advert from my much younger years. I remember it
airing many times, over here in the UK and being quite impressed by it. It
wasn't - however - (as the OP attests) some kind of groundbreaking leftfield
concept that "couldn't possibly work in the way we do things", there were
plenty of adverts at the time which did far more outrageous things than
parody a film... ;-)

Cheers,
Nige
 
N

Neredbojias

New Zealand is considering changing from driving on the left to
driving on the right, as a courtesy to all the European and American
trourists who visit there and spend lots of money.

They are starting with just buses and trucks as a trial.

Oh? New Zealand's a favorite teamster spot, huh?
 
N

nice.guy.nige

While the city slept, Beauregard T. Shagnasty feverishly typed:
In right-hand drive cars, don't you use your left foot for the
accelerator and the right foot for the brake? <wink>

Depends if you are desparate for the toilet or not! ;-)
Blame the author of RunBasic for providing the option... else RtS
would have never thought of it. But he's a sheeple, so he used it.

:) Will "sheeple" be entering the alt.html lexicon, alongside "proffesional
web dresigner"? ;-)

Cheers,
Nige
 
F

freemont

Originally, it was proposed to have diagonal scrollbars, they were
supposed to have a sort of vector function to operate both horizontally
and vertically via the one bar. The software was brilliant and worked
fine after it was discovered that there was an optimum shape to the bar:

<http://dorayme.netweaver.com.au/justPics/wigglyscrolling.png>

lol! Niiiice one.
But the big drawback was that it blocked the view of the content.
Various transparency tricks were used but the whole project ended in
failure. It was moved to the traditional right and bottom.

But I encourage you to experiment and shake up our well worn habits. I
look to young exciting experimenters like you with your various projects
to keep us all from going stale. Good on you, mate!

He also plans to require right-button clicks and to use right-to-left
text. !gnihtyreve egnahc ll'tI
 
D

dorayme

freemont said:
He also plans to require right-button clicks and to use right-to-left
text. !gnihtyreve egnahc ll'tI

Ah now... left to right text... no, Richard would not go that far. That
is messing with content, not just style, or is it?

Would the spooky real content somehow *really* be there somehow:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<title>The Fox</title>
<style type="text/css" media="screen">
body {direction: rtl;}
p {unicode-bidi: bidi-override;}
</style>
</head>
<body>
<p>The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog</p>
</body>
</html>
 

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