Sometimes I Just Don't Get the Tools

Discussion in 'VHDL' started by rickman, Jan 28, 2013.

  1. rickman

    rickman Guest

    I've learned to use Active HDL some time ago and never had too much
    trouble with it. But now it is not letting me use the waveform viewer in
    an effective way. I typically add all my signals once and then as I
    work on the design and recompile it uses the same signal on each
    iteration of the edit/compile/simulate cycle.

    Now it is deleting all my signals from the waveform every time I
    recompile. Seems it is related to using the "advanced waveform editor".
    I found a setting that says, "preserve signals when simulation is
    initialized". WTF? I guess if you are doing everything from a
    simulation batch file you just add these signals too, but what is the
    purpose of automatically deleting them by default or at all? I would
    think a batch file could easily delete any existing signals before
    creating its display.

    Sometimes I just don't get the mindset of the tool developers.

    Rick
     
    rickman, Jan 28, 2013
    #1
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  2. rickman

    valtih1978 Guest

    > Now it is deleting all my signals from the waveform every time I
    > recompile. Seems it is related to using the "advanced waveform editor".


    This option has always infuriated me. Thanks for saying that the problem
    is the tool, not me.
     
    valtih1978, Jan 28, 2013
    #2
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  3. rickman

    Rob Gaddi Guest

    On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 22:46:05 -0500
    rickman <> wrote:

    > I've learned to use Active HDL some time ago and never had too much
    > trouble with it. But now it is not letting me use the waveform viewer in
    > an effective way. I typically add all my signals once and then as I
    > work on the design and recompile it uses the same signal on each
    > iteration of the edit/compile/simulate cycle.
    >
    > Now it is deleting all my signals from the waveform every time I
    > recompile. Seems it is related to using the "advanced waveform editor".
    > I found a setting that says, "preserve signals when simulation is
    > initialized". WTF? I guess if you are doing everything from a
    > simulation batch file you just add these signals too, but what is the
    > purpose of automatically deleting them by default or at all? I would
    > think a batch file could easily delete any existing signals before
    > creating its display.
    >
    > Sometimes I just don't get the mindset of the tool developers.
    >
    > Rick


    In my college transistor circuits course, back shortly before the
    discovery of electricity, we were targetting -100dB THD, and verifying
    against a distortion analyzer. Look at it on a scope, sine wave. Look
    at it on the analyzer, nuthin'. Back and forth, over and over, for
    10 minutes we couldn't get any results out of the distortion analyzer.

    Turned out to have a tiny button next to the BNC called "Input
    Disconnect". Or as we called it, the Broken button. Since then I've
    been amazed at how many designers of how many things have felt the need
    to include a Broken button.

    --
    Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology -- www.highlandtechnology.com
    Email address domain is currently out of order. See above to fix.
     
    Rob Gaddi, Jan 28, 2013
    #3
  4. rickman

    rickman Guest

    On 1/28/2013 12:16 PM, Rob Gaddi wrote:
    > On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 22:46:05 -0500
    > rickman<> wrote:
    >
    >> I've learned to use Active HDL some time ago and never had too much
    >> trouble with it. But now it is not letting me use the waveform viewer in
    >> an effective way. I typically add all my signals once and then as I
    >> work on the design and recompile it uses the same signal on each
    >> iteration of the edit/compile/simulate cycle.
    >>
    >> Now it is deleting all my signals from the waveform every time I
    >> recompile. Seems it is related to using the "advanced waveform editor".
    >> I found a setting that says, "preserve signals when simulation is
    >> initialized". WTF? I guess if you are doing everything from a
    >> simulation batch file you just add these signals too, but what is the
    >> purpose of automatically deleting them by default or at all? I would
    >> think a batch file could easily delete any existing signals before
    >> creating its display.
    >>
    >> Sometimes I just don't get the mindset of the tool developers.
    >>
    >> Rick

    >
    > In my college transistor circuits course, back shortly before the
    > discovery of electricity, we were targetting -100dB THD, and verifying
    > against a distortion analyzer. Look at it on a scope, sine wave. Look
    > at it on the analyzer, nuthin'. Back and forth, over and over, for
    > 10 minutes we couldn't get any results out of the distortion analyzer.
    >
    > Turned out to have a tiny button next to the BNC called "Input
    > Disconnect". Or as we called it, the Broken button. Since then I've
    > been amazed at how many designers of how many things have felt the need
    > to include a Broken button.
    >


    They charge extra for buttons on test gear, don't they... no matter how
    banal...

    I'm still struggling with this issue, but in a more limited scope. When
    I compile bad code in a way that causes the tool to get upset enough to
    forget what the top level module is, on fixing the problem and starting
    the simulation the waveform display any variables on display can't be
    found in the code and are deleted... stupid tools!

    I guess my real issue is that I had been using an older version of the
    tool and for whatever reason I'm pretty sure I wasn't allowed to use the
    "advanced" waveform viewer. Now that I am using the *advanced* viewer,
    I am finding that it is only advanced in some ways that I don't actually
    perceive. I guess it might be faster. The simulations seem to run a
    lot faster than with the old tool, but I'm comparing apples and oranges
    in terms of the project. This one is still pretty small and is only
    running at a quarter MHz.

    At least I am learning to not "upset* the tools. Otherwise they try to
    get revenge... spiteful tools!

    Rick
     
    rickman, Jan 28, 2013
    #4
  5. In comp.arch.fpga rickman <> wrote:

    (snip, someone wrote)
    >> Turned out to have a tiny button next to the BNC called "Input
    >> Disconnect". Or as we called it, the Broken button. Since then I've
    >> been amazed at how many designers of how many things have felt the need
    >> to include a Broken button.


    > They charge extra for buttons on test gear, don't they... no matter how
    > banal...


    I suppose, but more buttons means that marketing can advertize
    them as additional features.

    Reminds me of the hardest to find button on most oscilloscopes,
    the on/off button (or knob or ...).

    -- glen
     
    glen herrmannsfeldt, Jan 28, 2013
    #5
  6. rickman

    valtih1978 Guest

    On 28.01.2013 23:51, rickman wrote:
    > I'm still struggling with this issue, but in a more limited scope. When
    > I compile bad code in a way that causes the tool to get upset enough to
    > forget what the top level module is, on fixing the problem and starting
    > the simulation the waveform display any variables on display can't be
    > found in the code and are deleted... stupid tools!


    I remember it was loosing everything when (re)compiled a package.
     
    valtih1978, Jan 29, 2013
    #6
  7. rickman

    rickman Guest

    On 1/29/2013 7:14 AM, valtih1978 wrote:
    > On 28.01.2013 23:51, rickman wrote:
    >> I'm still struggling with this issue, but in a more limited scope. When
    >> I compile bad code in a way that causes the tool to get upset enough to
    >> forget what the top level module is, on fixing the problem and starting
    >> the simulation the waveform display any variables on display can't be
    >> found in the code and are deleted... stupid tools!

    >
    > I remember it was loosing everything when (re)compiled a package.


    When I used the Active simulator before it would not delete signals from
    the waveform display no matter what. I would eventually notice that a
    signal was not showing a waveform, most likely because I had deleted the
    signal from the code, and remove it from the display.

    I can't say much about variables in the waveform viewer. I don't recall
    having any problems with them, but I've not typically used them a lot,
    at least I didn't have a lot of need to show their waveforms. I seem to
    be using them more now and for more "important" signals. My test
    benches are full of them and now I'm having these problems.

    I would consider using a macro to add everything to the waveform
    display, I think there is even a menu command to save the current
    waveform setup as a .do file. But only the variables seem to be lost
    now and only after starting the simulation. The .do file would have to
    start the simulation, stop it immediately, delete all signals from the
    waveform display, add them all back and then restart the simulation...
    really?

    There has to be a better way.

    Rick
     
    rickman, Jan 30, 2013
    #7
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