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[Theerasak Photha]

My observation is that in general names keep hanging on to archaic forms
much longer than normal language. Examples:

- A very common name around here is Hendrickx. In normal language, the
'ckx' construction is replaced with 'ks'.
- 'Straat' (English: 'street') (or 'straten' in multiple) used to be
written 'straet' ('straeten'); in names it is still written like that:
'Verstraeten' is a common name. 'Verstraten' exists too though, but is
less common I think.

But I can't think of that many names with 'der', so maybe the
declensions have been dropped already.

Dutch 2.5. kekekekeke

I will be touring Flanders and seeing friends up there soon, actually.

-- Theerasak

 

[Antoon Pardon]

Which was my original point in mentioning similar Portuguese names.

But in Belgium (That includes the flemisch region) names are sorted
with the 'van' 'de' etc. De reason is rather simple. If you hear
someone's name as "Van den Hautte", you have no idea how it is spelled

Van Den Haute
Vandenhaute
Vanden Haute

These are all possible. Now I think you can hardly sort "Vandenhaute"
next to "haute" because then you would need to know al kind of
prefixes that may be also written seperately. So by putting all these
names together it makes for easier searching in case you have doubts
on how the name is actually written.

BTW, do Dutch/Flemish family names now follow the trend of dropping
declension, as seen in both languages (dialects?) in general: e.g.,
'de' instead of 'der'?

Yes but not in names (at least in Flemish families)

 

[Florian Diesch]

Don't know about what happens in Holland - my ancestors came over here to South
Africa a long time ago -
a mixed up kid I am - Dutch and French from the time of the revocation of the
edict of Nantes...
And yes, here the phone books are sorted that way - the "van Rensburg"s precede
the "van Rooyen"s. And what is worse, there are a lot of "van der"s too - two
spaces in the string like "van der Merwe" who are preceded by "van der Bank" -
"van" basically means "from" - like the German "von" - but in Germany its an
appellation applied to the nobility -

In Germany "von" is just a part of the name since 1919 when the nobility
was abolished by law. In the local phonebook it seems it's up tgo the
people how they want to be sorted. I see e.g. both "von Fürstenberg,
Ulrich" and "Fürstenberg, Constantin von".

and in my name it makes no sense as "Rooyen" is not a place - its a
strange archaic derivative of the colour red - "rooij' in Dutch, spelt

In Germany names like that were created when a commoner was
ennobled. There is a "von Roth" in the lokal phonebook ("roth" is an
archaic spelling of "rot" which means "red")



Florian

 

[Hendrik van Rooyen]

8<--------------------------------------------------------------

In Germany "von" is just a part of the name since 1919 when the nobility
was abolished by law.

Thanks - was not aware of this - 1919 - just after the Great War, 1914-1918...

- Hendrik