SYNCHRONIZING problem

[adrian.bartholomew]

Try this on for size: the internet was *developed* by the *Pentagon* so
that critical *United States* services would not go down in the event of
a nuclear war. After the internet was privatized and bought by
*American* companies, the companies and organizations in charge of the
standards decided that because the biggest market was America (that is
after all where the internet was), specifications should be written
using American conventions so that people would not have to learn new
conventions. It is a 100% marketing decision: based in *America*,
written by *Americans*, used primarily by *Americans*, you're saying
that it should use *British* conventions? Why don't we then conduct all
government in Latin, it's just as foreign to Americans?

Finally, the internet is *not* international by definition: the internet
is an interconnected network; any time you have a WAN, it is an
internet. Nowhere does international stuff come into the definition.


Sun is an American company, its programming language should then cater
primarily to its primary customers, Americans, so its conventions are
Americans. All major internet companies -- Microsoft, Apple, Google,
eBay, Amazaon, even the Unix developers are/were American; the first
programmable computer was American; precedent biases towards American
conventions. Just as the British Empire exported the British customs and
conventions, so too is the American exportation of technological
innovation exporting American conventions. If you want to write "new
Colour", get a British company (or consortium) to write a new
programming language that gets widely adopted. I'd gladly write it if
the language required it.

spoken like a true american. u should be proud. its YOUR ball after
all.

blacks should continue on with the chip on their shoulder because of
how it WAS?
so TIME plays no part in evolution eh?
i repeat. the internet BY DEFINITION is global.
that interconnected network u talked about? well its now worldwide.
when u talk, include the 4th dimension. u cant escape it.

SUN's major clients are no longer all american. java has spawned
software companies globally. but dont take my word for it. do ur own
research.
many software companies include a japanese version. why?
u sound like the brady bunch. america america america.
u r not an island. no matter how u may feel about it, u cannot survive
without the rest of the world. and vice versa. though only one of us
know it.
ironic since u are asking me to play nice with others.

Adrian

 

[Alex Hunsley]

Try this on for size: the internet was *developed* by the *Pentagon* so
that critical *United States* services would not go down in the event of
a nuclear war. After the internet was privatized and bought by
*American* companies, the companies and organizations in charge of the
standards decided that because the biggest market was America (that is
after all where the internet was), specifications should be written
using American conventions so that people would not have to learn new
conventions. It is a 100% marketing decision: based in *America*,
written by *Americans*, used primarily by *Americans*, you're saying
that it should use *British* conventions? Why don't we then conduct all
government in Latin, it's just as foreign to Americans?

Finally, the internet is *not* international by definition: the internet
is an interconnected network; any time you have a WAN, it is an
internet. Nowhere does international stuff come into the definition.


the first
programmable computer was American;

Natch, it would appear that the Germans got there first: heard of the
Zuse Z3?

http://www.primidi.com/2004/06/07.html

But who did or didn't make the first computer is side-stepping a little
into chest-beating territory...

 

[Alex Hunsley]

hi sherm. hola.
wadduuuuup.
u know u CAN choose to ignore posts written in this style. no ones
stopping u.

Yes, he could, but people who responded to you with suggestions about
posting style were actually trying to *help you*. Fancy that!
Because if you don't follow conventions, and make a teensy weensy bit of
effort to make yourself as understandable as possible, people will just
think, "Why should I make an effort? He's clearly not..." Reap what ye sow.
To get the most efficient help from this group, you have to "fit in" to
a certain extent, where "fit in" means "make an effort and communicate
clearly". And there are two things that could happen to make you "fit in":
a) you follow the advice given here in good faith about communicating
clearly (so one person makes a change)
b) everyone else suddenly changes to "adapt to your style" (many people
change)

What do you think is more likely to happen? A or B?

 

[Ian Wilson]

Try this on for size: the internet was *developed* by the *Pentagon*

Wrong size? DARPA specifically. A lot of development work on the IMPs
was done by BBN wasn't it?

so that critical *United States* services would not go down in the event of
a nuclear war.

So far as I know that is something of an urban myth. The Arpanet was
designed to facilitate sharing of information and computing facilities
between four ARPA research sites. It didn't touch operational military
services. If Berkely had been wiped out by a nuclear strike I doubt the
presence or absence of Arpanet at the remaining three research sites
would have had any impact at all on the organisation of the counterstrike.

After the internet was privatized and bought by
*American* companies, the companies and organizations in charge of the
standards decided that because the biggest market was America (that is
after all where the internet was), specifications should be written
using American conventions so that people would not have to learn new
conventions.

Not according to the IETF RFC editor
http://www.rfc-editor.org/pipermail/rfc-interest/2006-February/000465.html

At the time of transition to commercial funding, the Internet was not
exclusively "in America" (by which I guess you exclude all countries in
the south and far north of the continent) I registered a commercial UK
domain with the US department of defence DDN NIC in March 1993.

It is a 100% marketing decision: based in *America*,
written by *Americans*, used primarily by *Americans*, you're saying
that it should use *British* conventions? Why don't we then conduct all
government in Latin, it's just as foreign to Americans?

Adrian has written some ridiculous things, but I don't think he said
that. Later he writes of coexistence between British English and
American English. Just as the RFC editor does. I think that's what he
meant. I don't care that much but it's unfair to misrepresent what he wrote.

Finally, the internet is *not* international by definition:

Which definition are you referring to? reference?

Not this I guess:
http://www.nitrd.gov/fnc/Internet_res.html
"Internet" refers to the *global* information system
Questions or Systems problems should be reported to
(e-mail address removed).

Frankly, I think ARPA ought to know.

the internet
is an interconnected network; any time you have a WAN, it is an
internet. Nowhere does international stuff come into the definition.

Most commentators make a distinction between internet and Internet
(obviously Adrian disables himself from so doing) The Internet is
international and always has been (excluding early ARPANET)

http://som.csudh.edu/cis/lpress/history/arpamaps/arpanetmar77.jpg

Note LONDON in the bottom right corner using ICL and GEC computers.


OK so the Internet was a US invention, I guess if it hadn't existed I
might today be using an international JANET and cambridge-ring LANs. If
you want to belittle foreigners you could at least get your facts a bit
straighter

 

[Wojtek]

Ian Wilson wrote :

So far as I know that is something of an urban myth. The Arpanet was designed
to facilitate sharing of information and computing facilities between four
ARPA research sites. It didn't touch operational military services. If
Berkely had been wiped out by a nuclear strike I doubt the presence or
absence of Arpanet at the remaining three research sites would have had any
impact at all on the organisation of the counterstrike.

The Internet protocol was developed to be "self-healing". So that
rather than a single defined path from machine to machine, the route
which information takes is arbitrary. In a properly set up network, it
does not matter if a router goes down. Other routers note the absence
and route around it. This is commonly referred to as a "cloud".

This WAS a requirement because in the middle of the Cold War you could
lose a router or two if a nuclear strike occurred.

Of course with the buy outs and bean counter thinking, this has largely
been compromised. There are only a few master routers which service the
Internet in the North America. If one of these goes out, then a lot of
Internet traffic stops.

For instance to send a message from one ISP in Vancouver Canada to
another ISP in Vancouver Canada, the packets actually travel through
Washington DC.

Try a trace route....

 

[Martin Gregorie]

Irrelevant. Let's not go jingo.

Wrong too. Colossus predates ENIAC by a couple of years and Manchester's
Baby was the first *stored program* computer. ENIAC was plug programmed.

ARPANET was the first packet switched WAN and Ethernet was a Xerox
invention, but
the first packet switched network was a LAN at the National Physical
Laboratory in
Teddington.

 

[Ian Wilson]

Ian Wilson wrote :

Joshua was speaking of the original design goals for the Internet. I'll
assume he includes ARPAnet and the period prior to the conversion to TCP/IP.

The Internet protocol was developed to be "self-healing". So that rather
than a single defined path from machine to machine, the route which
information takes is arbitrary. In a properly set up network, it does
not matter if a router goes down. Other routers note the absence and
route around it. This is commonly referred to as a "cloud".

This WAS a requirement because in the middle of the Cold War you could
lose a router or two if a nuclear strike occurred.

Lawrence G. Roberts say that is "totally false".

http://www.ziplink.net/~lroberts/InternetChronology.html
Internet Chronology
Lawrence G. Roberts

Mar-64 First Paper on Secure Packetized Voice, Paul Baran, "On
Distributed Communications Networks", IEEE Transactions on Systems. It
is from this paper that the rumor was started that the Internet was
created by the military to withstand nuclear war. This is totally false.
Even though this Rand work was based on this premise, the ARPANET and
the Internet stemmed from the MIT work of Licklider, Kleinrock and
Roberts, and had no relation to Baran's work.

If Lawrence Roberts says it is false, he should know, he after all
worked on the project in the ARPA days and set out it's design goals.

http://www.cybertelecom.org/notes/internet_historyref.htm
1967: ARPA initiates planning of the ARPANet. Design objectives of
ARPANet included
* interconnecting different research computers,
* sharing data between networks,
* loadsharing of processing power (where one mainframe was busy,
processing could be shifted to a different mainframe with
available capacity) and
* communications between different research centers (minor objective
that became a major benefit and use).

 

[Joshua Cranmer]

Wrong too. Colossus predates ENIAC by a couple of years and Manchester's
Baby was the first *stored program* computer. ENIAC was plug programmed.

ARPANET was the first packet switched WAN and Ethernet was a Xerox
invention, but
the first packet switched network was a LAN at the National Physical
Laboratory in
Teddington.

I was referring to the ABC machine, but I'm not very good at my history
of computing. In addition, I was referring to the idea of an internet
(note the lowercase letter) being an "interconnected network," much
closer to ARPANET than a LAN. Of course, I might be wrong about that too.

 

[Oliver Wong]

More see here!

[spam url snipped]

Stop that.

It's probably a bot, and thus does not understand your posts. In fact,
it probably does not bother to read your posts.

- Oliver