<TBODY>

Discussion in 'HTML' started by JohnWMpls, Jul 28, 2005.

  1. JohnWMpls

    JohnWMpls Guest

    A recent message here about <tbody> caused me to look it up in O'Reilly.
    I have never used it or its companions <thead> and <tfoot>.

    <thead> seems to be just the thing for one table I have that is 3 pages
    long - if, as described, it will repeat the column headers on each page
    (& screen?). But I cannot get it to do that.

    Am I barking up the wrong tree?


    ---
    JohnW-Mpls
    JohnWMpls, Jul 28, 2005
    #1
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  2. hi john,

    "JohnWMpls" <> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:...

    > <thead> seems to be just the thing for one table I have that is 3 pages
    > long - if, as described, it will repeat the column headers on each page
    > (& screen?). But I cannot get it to do that.
    >
    > Am I barking up the wrong tree?


    You can find all the answers here:
    http://www.usability.com.au/resources/tables.cfm?style_font=sansserif

    Regards
    Bernhard
    bernhard schelling, Jul 28, 2005
    #2
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  3. JohnWMpls wrote:

    > <thead> seems to be just the thing for one table I have that is 3 pages
    > long - if, as described, it will repeat the column headers on each page
    > (& screen?). But I cannot get it to do that.


    Browser support is rather absent at the moment, one day it might be there,
    and the markup certainly does no harm in the mean time.

    > ---
    > JohnW-Mpls


    Please fix your sig separator, it should be "-- ". A proper sig separator
    will allow newsreaders to automatically trim it for replies.

    --
    David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
    Home is where the ~/.bashrc is
    David Dorward, Jul 28, 2005
    #3
  4. JohnWMpls

    SpaceGirl Guest

    David Dorward wrote:
    > JohnWMpls wrote:
    >
    >
    >><thead> seems to be just the thing for one table I have that is 3 pages
    >>long - if, as described, it will repeat the column headers on each page
    >>(& screen?). But I cannot get it to do that.

    >
    >
    > Browser support is rather absent at the moment, one day it might be there,
    > and the markup certainly does no harm in the mean time.
    >
    >
    >>---
    >> JohnW-Mpls

    >
    >
    > Please fix your sig separator, it should be "-- ". A proper sig separator
    > will allow newsreaders to automatically trim it for replies.
    >


    Sort of works in IE6 and Mozilla (and in turn Firefox). It makes code
    really hard to read tho! Your footers and headers at the top of the
    table followed by the body... it's weird :) It does work though - and if
    you are writing strict XHTML I think they are required (? maybe wrong).

    --


    x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

    # lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
    # remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #
    # this post (c) Miranda Thomas 2005
    # explicitly no permission given to Forum4Designers
    # to duplicate this post.
    SpaceGirl, Jul 28, 2005
    #4
  5. JohnWMpls

    Jedi Fans Guest

    SpaceGirl wrote:
    > Sort of works in IE6 and Mozilla (and in turn Firefox). It makes code
    > really hard to read tho! Your footers and headers at the top of the
    > table followed by the body... it's weird :) It does work though - and if
    > you are writing strict XHTML I think they are required (? maybe wrong).
    >


    writing scrict XHTML means having a good document structure aka not
    using tables for layout [tabular data is fine if i misunderstood the
    meaning of the table useage]
    Jedi Fans, Jul 28, 2005
    #5
  6. JohnWMpls

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 23:39:26 +0100, Jedi Fans
    <"news[at]jedifans[--=dot==-]com"> wrote:

    >writing scrict XHTML means having a good document structure aka not
    >using tables for layout


    No it doesn't. Garbage code is still garbage code, you can write it in
    XHTML, or in HTML 3.2.

    Strict knocks a few obvious gewgaws out, but it's still no automatic
    guarantee that garbage or less-than-ideal code will also be termed
    mechanically invalid.
    Andy Dingley, Jul 28, 2005
    #6
  7. JohnWMpls

    JohnWMpls Guest

    On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 17:34:53 +0200, "bernhard schelling"
    <> wrote:
    =>> <thead> seems to be just the thing for one table I have that is 3 pages
    =>> long - if, as described, it will repeat the column headers on each page
    =>> (& screen?). But I cannot get it to do that.
    =>>
    =>> Am I barking up the wrong tree?
    =>
    =>You can find all the answers here:
    =>http://www.usability.com.au/resources/tables.cfm?style_font=sansserif
    =>
    Thanks, not the wrong tree - but a variation among browsers.

    No browser repeated the thead when scrolling but the Print Preview in
    all was accurate.

    Mozilla, Firefox, & NS 7 were the same. Thead and Tfoot were placed on
    each printed page. Only funny thing - they print the text before the
    table (1/4 page) but then jumped to start a new page with the thead.
    (Note: include a header or caption in thead or the table name gets lost
    on subsequent pages.)

    Thead etc not recognized by NS 4.8.

    IE 6 printed thead and tfoot at the beginning and end of the table
    but not on middle pages. (If it makes a difference, my IE came from
    AOL - says it is a custom version).

    Opera 8.01, like IE, did not print thead nor tfoot on middle pages - and
    did not even break into columns the thead (it did tfoot though!).

    Following is the top of the code I used (all UC originally from a
    word97-to-html conversion - messy looking but it works!).

    <P ALIGN="CENTER">
    <TABLE width="95%" BORDER CELLSPACING=1 CELLPADDING=7">
    <thead><h3>Choir Schedule</h3>
    <TR>
    <Th WIDTH="20%" VALIGN="TOP">&nbsp;</Th>
    <Th WIDTH="20%" VALIGN="TOP">
    <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">8:30</FONT></Th>
    <Th WIDTH="22%" VALIGN="TOP">
    <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">10:00</FONT></Th>
    <Th WIDTH="18%" VALIGN="TOP">
    <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">Other</FONT></Th>
    <Th WIDTH="21%" VALIGN="TOP">
    <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">11:10</FONT></Th>
    </TR>

    <tfoot>
    <TR>
    <TR>
    <Th WIDTH="20%" VALIGN="TOP">****</Th>
    <Th WIDTH="20%" VALIGN="TOP">
    <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">8:30</FONT></Th>
    <Th WIDTH="22%" VALIGN="TOP">
    <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">10:00</FONT></Th>
    <Th WIDTH="18%" VALIGN="TOP">
    <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">Other</FONT></Th>
    <Th WIDTH="21%" VALIGN="TOP">
    <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">11:10</FONT></Th>
    </TR>

    <tbody>
    <TR><TD WIDTH="20%" VALIGN="TOP">
    <B><FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">Sept. 12</P>
    <P ALIGN="CENTER">Fall Kick-off</B></FONT></TD>
    <TD WIDTH="20%" VALIGN="TOP">
    <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">A Cappella</FONT></TD>
    <TD WIDTH="22%" VALIGN="TOP">
    <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">A Cappella</FONT></TD>
    <TD WIDTH="18%" VALIGN="TOP">
    <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER"></P>
    <P ALIGN="CENTER">&nbsp;</FONT></TD>
    <TD WIDTH="21%" VALIGN="TOP">
    <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">Wellspring</P>
    <P ALIGN="CENTER"></FONT></TD>
    </TR>
    <TR><TD WIDTH="20%" VALIGN="TOP">
    <B><FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">Sept. 19</B></FONT></TD>
    <TD WIDTH="20%" VALIGN="TOP">
    <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">A Cappella</FONT></TD>
    <TD WIDTH="22%" VALIGN="TOP">
    <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">Hosanna</FONT></TD>
    ....etc....


    ---
    JohnW-Mpls
    JohnWMpls, Jul 30, 2005
    #7
  8. On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 23:39:26 +0100, Jedi Fans
    <"news[at]jedifans[--=dot==-]com"> wrote:


    [...]

    >writing scrict XHTML means having a good document structure aka not
    >using tables for layout [tabular data is fine if i misunderstood the
    >meaning of the table useage]


    The OP mentioned he would like to see the column header repeated on
    each page, which suggests to me that he is actually using a table for
    tabular data, which is fine.

    Nick
    --
    Nick Theodorakis

    contact form:
    http://theodorakis.net/contact.html
    Nick Theodorakis, Jul 30, 2005
    #8
  9. JohnWMpls

    JohnWMpls Guest

    On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 19:32:18 +0100, David Dorward <>
    wrote:

    => ---
    =>> JohnW-Mpls
    =>
    =>Please fix your sig separator, it should be "-- ". A proper sig separator
    =>will allow newsreaders to automatically trim it for replies.

    I've been using my sig separator for almost 20 years in the BBS world.
    It is: 3 hyphens, CR/LF, Space, Text.....

    What you suggest looks similar but: 2 hyphens, CR/LF, Text....

    Is that right?

    Does the difference make my old BBS style generally not accepted in
    newsgroups?


    ---
    JohnW-Mpls
    JohnWMpls, Jul 30, 2005
    #9
  10. JohnWMpls

    Adrienne Guest

    Gazing into my crystal ball I observed JohnWMpls <>
    writing in news::

    > On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 19:32:18 +0100, David Dorward <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >=> ---
    >=>> JohnW-Mpls
    >=>
    >=>Please fix your sig separator, it should be "-- ". A proper sig
    >separator =>will allow newsreaders to automatically trim it for replies.
    >
    > I've been using my sig separator for almost 20 years in the BBS world.
    > It is: 3 hyphens, CR/LF, Space, Text.....
    >
    > What you suggest looks similar but: 2 hyphens, CR/LF, Text....
    >
    > Is that right?
    >
    > Does the difference make my old BBS style generally not accepted in
    > newsgroups?
    >
    >
    > ---
    > JohnW-Mpls
    >


    Yes, because, as you can see, your signature is still there when I reply.
    Conforming news clients will remove the signature if it is only two dashes,
    not three.

    If you reply to my message, my signature should disappear, if you are using
    such a client.

    --
    Adrienne Boswell
    http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
    Please respond to the group so others can share
    Adrienne, Jul 30, 2005
    #10
  11. JohnWMpls wrote:

    > I've been using my sig separator for almost 20 years in the BBS world.
    > It is: 3 hyphens, CR/LF, Space, Text.....
    >
    > What you suggest looks similar but: 2 hyphens, CR/LF, Text....
    > Is that right?


    No, 2 hyphens, space, CR/LF, Text.

    http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2646.html

    > Does the difference make my old BBS style generally not accepted in
    > newsgroups?


    Yes.

    --
    David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
    Home is where the ~/.bashrc is
    David Dorward, Jul 31, 2005
    #11
  12. JohnWMpls <> writes:

    > Following is the top of the code I used (all UC originally from a
    > word97-to-html conversion - messy looking but it works!).


    For some definition of "works", although I fear it's not a useful
    definition.

    > <P ALIGN="CENTER">
    > <TABLE width="95%" BORDER CELLSPACING=1 CELLPADDING=7">


    Probably not what you meant to write. The TABLE is a block level
    element, and since it cannot be inside a P element, the browser will
    end the P element again before it (adding the optional end tag for the
    P element). That means that the centering will not work on the TABEL
    if following standards.

    > <thead><h3>Choir Schedule</h3>


    Invalid HTML. The H3 may not appear inside a THEAD (only TR may), so
    error correction might end the THEAD *and* the TABLE right there ...

    > <TR>


    .... and start a new table around this row and forwards. Or maybe not,
    it's never easy to guess what browsers do with nonsensical HTML :)

    /L
    --
    Lasse Reichstein Nielsen -
    DHTML Death Colors: <URL:http://www.infimum.dk/HTML/rasterTriangleDOM.html>
    'Faith without judgement merely degrades the spirit divine.'
    Lasse Reichstein Nielsen, Aug 2, 2005
    #12
  13. JohnWMpls

    JohnWMpls Guest

    On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 22:31:09 +0100, David Dorward <>
    wrote:

    =>JohnWMpls wrote:
    =>
    =>> I've been using my sig separator for almost 20 years in the BBS world.
    =>> It is: 3 hyphens, CR/LF, Space, Text.....
    =>>
    =>> What you suggest looks similar but: 2 hyphens, CR/LF, Text....
    =>> Is that right?
    =>
    =>No, 2 hyphens, space, CR/LF, Text.
    =>
    =>http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2646.html
    =>
    =>> Does the difference make my old BBS style generally not accepted in
    =>> newsgroups?
    =>
    =>Yes.

    I tried cutting back to 2 hyphens on my BBS messages - and it works there
    also.

    Using the above in BBSs, my messages end up with just my sig - the
    separator avoids the 2 lines of advertisement the local BBS usually
    adds.

    --
    JohnW-Mpls
    JohnWMpls, Aug 3, 2005
    #13
  14. JohnWMpls

    JohnWMpls Guest

    On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 20:47:37 +0200, Lasse Reichstein Nielsen
    <> wrote:

    =>JohnWMpls <> writes:
    =>
    =>> Following is the top of the code I used (all UC originally from a
    =>> word97-to-html conversion - messy looking but it works!).
    =>
    =>For some definition of "works", although I fear it's not a useful
    =>definition.
    =>
    =>> <P ALIGN="CENTER">
    =>> <TABLE width="95%" BORDER CELLSPACING=1 CELLPADDING=7">
    =>
    =>Probably not what you meant to write. The TABLE is a block level
    =>element, and since it cannot be inside a P element, the browser will
    =>end the P element again before it (adding the optional end tag for the
    =>P element). That means that the centering will not work on the TABEL
    =>if following standards.

    As I said, code came from the conversion - and it worked.

    =>
    =>> <thead><h3>Choir Schedule</h3>
    =>
    =>Invalid HTML. The H3 may not appear inside a THEAD (only TR may), so
    =>error correction might end the THEAD *and* the TABLE right there ...

    Whatever. The <h3> placed the title inside the header row. I replaced
    <h3> with <caption> and the title was outside the header row.

    --
    JohnW-Mpls
    JohnWMpls, Aug 3, 2005
    #14
  15. On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 02:31:50 GMT, JohnWMpls <> wrote:

    > On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 20:47:37 +0200, Lasse Reichstein Nielsen
    > <> wrote:
    >


    =>JohnWMpls <> writes:

    What's with this ugly == in front of the quoted text? Use >> like anybody else.
    With == you break the quote mechanism for other people.

    >>> Following is the top of the code I used (all UC originally from a
    >>> word97-to-html conversion - messy looking but it works!).

    >>
    >> For some definition of "works", although I fear it's not a useful
    >> definition.
    >>
    >>> <P ALIGN="CENTER">
    >>> <TABLE width="95%" BORDER CELLSPACING=1 CELLPADDING=7">

    >>
    >> Probably not what you meant to write. The TABLE is a block level
    >> element, and since it cannot be inside a P element, the browser will
    >> end the P element again before it (adding the optional end tag for the
    >> P element). That means that the centering will not work on the TABEL
    >> if following standards.

    >
    > As I said, code came from the conversion - and it worked.
    >


    This group isn't about 'it worked'. It is about html. And what you provide is
    not any conforming html to any version. You don't know if it works. You probably
    just see it on your own screen with your own browser. IE no doubt. It might not
    work at all with some other browser.

    >>> <thead><h3>Choir Schedule</h3>

    >>
    >> Invalid HTML. The H3 may not appear inside a THEAD (only TR may), so
    >> error correction might end the THEAD *and* the TABLE right there ...

    >
    > Whatever.


    Què?

    > The <h3> placed the title inside the header row. I replaced
    > <h3> with <caption> and the title was outside the header row.
    >


    Djeez, wake up buddy. You better learn what you're doing or not expect any help
    from here anymore. Can't have it both ways.

    Create correct markup, have it validated. Use css for looks and layout. Validate
    that too. Only if all that has been done, come here with your questions. Or ask
    what you do not understand during the learning proces. But don't expect someone
    who is more serious about markup to help out with maintaining wrong code.

    > --


    Your sig separator is broken. It's missing the space. Correct it, so people
    don't have to delete your sig manually if replying to your posts.

    --
    ,-- --<--@ -- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele interesses: ----------.
    | weblog | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html |
    | webontwerp | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html |
    |zweefvliegen | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html |
    `-------------------------------------------------- --<--@ ------------'
    Barbara de Zoete, Aug 3, 2005
    #15
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