thumbnail and full size images

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Stuart Miller, Sep 20, 2006.

  1. I have a hobby site, with a lot of pictures of family and various other
    hobby group activities. I have always used 'the gimp' to create small
    images, about 160x120 to display with a link to the real image if the caller
    wants to see it. This way I can cut the bandwidth usage and allow the pages
    to load faster, particularly for dial up users.

    If I specify, for example, a 1600x1200 picture into a cell size of 160x120,
    when does the compression take place? Does apache compress the image before
    sending, or does the viewer's browser do the compression? Or can this be
    controlled?

    I would be a help if I did not have to create small images of everything,
    but if the compression is done by the browser then I am still transmitting
    the entire image, so I am not creating faster loading pages.

    Thanks

    Stuart
     
    Stuart Miller, Sep 20, 2006
    #1
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  2. On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 04:58:55 GMT, "Stuart Miller"
    <> wrote:

    > If I specify, for example, a 1600x1200 picture into a cell size of 160x120,
    > when does the compression take place? Does apache compress the image before
    > sending, or does the viewer's browser do the compression? Or can this be
    > controlled?


    The resizing is done by the browser. It is much better to supply a
    correctly sized image. If resampling is a bother I have a Win32 program
    that will resample and upload images. Check
    <http://stevensaunderson.com/pickup.htm> if interested.

    If you want to resample on the server it is easy with PHP provided the
    GD image processing library is available on your server.

    --
    Steven
     
    Steven Saunderson, Sep 20, 2006
    #2
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  3. Stuart Miller

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Steven Saunderson <> wrote:

    > On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 04:58:55 GMT, "Stuart Miller"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > > If I specify, for example, a 1600x1200 picture into a cell size of 160x120,
    > > when does the compression take place? Does apache compress the image before
    > > sending, or does the viewer's browser do the compression? Or can this be
    > > controlled?

    >
    > The resizing is done by the browser. It is much better to supply a
    > correctly sized image. If resampling is a bother I have a Win32 program
    > that will resample and upload images. Check
    > <http://stevensaunderson.com/pickup.htm> if interested.
    >
    > If you want to resample on the server it is easy with PHP provided the
    > GD image processing library is available on your server.


    Which is not a bad way to go I suppose, especially for the
    thumbnails, you just load up the good bigger images. OP's example
    is a bit frightening though! 1600 x 1200 indeed... In fact,
    though, if the situation is not something very dynamic, and we
    are taking just thumbnails and one enlargement, it is not a lot
    of trouble to prepare high quality in a good photo editor and
    load up the lot...

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Sep 20, 2006
    #3
  4. On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 19:01:47 +1000, dorayme
    <> wrote:

    > > If you want to resample on the server it is easy with PHP provided the
    > > GD image processing library is available on your server.

    >
    > Which is not a bad way to go I suppose, especially for the
    > thumbnails, you just load up the good bigger images. OP's example
    > is a bit frightening though! 1600 x 1200 indeed...


    I'd expect the 1600 x 1200 image file to be 100 times the size of a 160
    x 120 image. This is horribly inefficient and unfortunately quite
    common. Being a responsible citizen I have complained to some people
    about their sites. So far I have a perfect record of annoying everybody
    and achieving nothing.

    I'm not recommending resizing on the fly as it is a nasty load for the
    server. But it should be easy to write a PHP script that will accept
    the details and then resize/resample the image and produce a small
    version.

    --
    Steven
     
    Steven Saunderson, Sep 20, 2006
    #4
  5. Steven Saunderson wrote:
    > On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 04:58:55 GMT, "Stuart Miller"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> If I specify, for example, a 1600x1200 picture into a cell size of 160x120,
    >> when does the compression take place? Does apache compress the image before
    >> sending, or does the viewer's browser do the compression? Or can this be
    >> controlled?

    >
    > The resizing is done by the browser. It is much better to supply a
    > correctly sized image. If resampling is a bother I have a Win32 program
    > that will resample and upload images. Check
    > <http://stevensaunderson.com/pickup.htm> if interested.


    Since the OP was sent on OE, we can assume he has access to a WinBox. I
    would recommend the freeware IrfanViewer

    http://www.irfanview.com/

    Really simple to run batch mode where you can resize and apply filter
    like sharpen and even append to the filename if you wish to build all
    your thumbnail in one click. You can select all the file with drag and
    drop so it is ease for the technically challenged.

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Sep 20, 2006
    #5
  6. Steven Saunderson wrote:

    > Being a responsible citizen I have complained to some people about
    > their sites. So far I have a perfect record of annoying everybody
    > and achieving nothing.


    "Who the hell are you to be telling me how to manage my sight?"

    There's other times you find a webmaster, or in this case, webmistress,
    who really get indignant when you write and advise their site is crap. I
    reported this one to the owner (tastefully, I thought), who forwarded it
    to the author, and I got back a scathing email from her telling me how
    wrong and how rude I was, for even suggesting the site was really
    borked. See for yourself in anything other than IE. (Hint: it's an MS
    Publisher site):

    http://www.redskyibizans.com/

    --
    -bts
    -Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck.
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Sep 20, 2006
    #6
  7. Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
    > Steven Saunderson wrote:
    >
    >> Being a responsible citizen I have complained to some people about
    >> their sites. So far I have a perfect record of annoying everybody
    >> and achieving nothing.

    >
    > "Who the hell are you to be telling me how to manage my sight?"


    ROTFL!!!!! I love it! Shame on you for criticizing her *vision*

    I feel ignored, at least you got a response!

    >
    > There's other times you find a webmaster, or in this case, webmistress,
    > who really get indignant when you write and advise their site is crap. I
    > reported this one to the owner (tastefully, I thought), who forwarded it
    > to the author, and I got back a scathing email from her telling me how
    > wrong and how rude I was, for even suggesting the site was really
    > borked. See for yourself in anything other than IE. (Hint: it's an MS
    > Publisher site):
    >
    > http://www.redskyibizans.com/


    I got so frustrated that I took a day and whipped this up

    http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/lu/

    Most of the time was spent deciphering the Publisher crap and
    downloading the monster images, many >2.5MB! My version, the whole site,
    is only 1.2MB, less than MS Publisher markup(forget the media)!!!!

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Sep 20, 2006
    #7
  8. Stuart Miller

    Els Guest

    Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    > Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:


    >> There's other times you find a webmaster, or in this case, webmistress,
    >> who really get indignant when you write and advise their site is crap. I
    >> reported this one to the owner (tastefully, I thought), who forwarded it
    >> to the author, and I got back a scathing email from her telling me how
    >> wrong and how rude I was, for even suggesting the site was really
    >> borked. See for yourself in anything other than IE. (Hint: it's an MS
    >> Publisher site):
    >>
    >> http://www.redskyibizans.com/

    >
    > I got so frustrated that I took a day and whipped this up
    >
    > http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/lu/


    Gives a 500, on the entiresite, not just that directory.

    --
    Els http://locusmeus.com/
    accessible web design: http://locusoptimus.com/

    Now playing: Ace Of Base - Happy Nation
     
    Els, Sep 20, 2006
    #8
  9. Els wrote:
    > Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    >> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

    >
    >>> There's other times you find a webmaster, or in this case, webmistress,
    >>> who really get indignant when you write and advise their site is crap. I
    >>> reported this one to the owner (tastefully, I thought), who forwarded it
    >>> to the author, and I got back a scathing email from her telling me how
    >>> wrong and how rude I was, for even suggesting the site was really
    >>> borked. See for yourself in anything other than IE. (Hint: it's an MS
    >>> Publisher site):
    >>>
    >>> http://www.redskyibizans.com/

    >> I got so frustrated that I took a day and whipped this up
    >>
    >> http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/lu/

    >
    > Gives a 500, on the entiresite, not just that directory.
    >



    Try http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/lu/index.php

    Damn Fatcow, must be futzing with their servers again. I am about to do
    a Joe Pesci on them "Dats it!"

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Sep 20, 2006
    #9
  10. Stuart Miller

    Els Guest

    Jonathan N. Little wrote:

    > Els wrote:
    >> Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    >>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

    >>
    >>>> There's other times you find a webmaster, or in this case, webmistress,
    >>>> who really get indignant when you write and advise their site is crap. I
    >>>> reported this one to the owner (tastefully, I thought), who forwarded it
    >>>> to the author, and I got back a scathing email from her telling me how
    >>>> wrong and how rude I was, for even suggesting the site was really
    >>>> borked. See for yourself in anything other than IE. (Hint: it's an MS
    >>>> Publisher site):
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.redskyibizans.com/
    >>> I got so frustrated that I took a day and whipped this up
    >>>
    >>> http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/lu/

    >>
    >> Gives a 500, on the entiresite, not just that directory.

    >
    > Try http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/lu/index.php


    Nice entirely blank page :)

    In the mean time the other link is working properly now though. I can
    actually see pictures of dogs, while the original site doesn't show
    any picture (or link) at all.

    --
    Els http://locusmeus.com/
    accessible web design: http://locusoptimus.com/

    Now playing: Duran Duran - Notorious
     
    Els, Sep 20, 2006
    #10
  11. Els wrote:
    > Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    >
    >> Els wrote:


    > Nice entirely blank page :)
    >
    > In the mean time the other link is working properly now though. I can
    > actually see pictures of dogs, while the original site doesn't show
    > any picture (or link) at all.
    >



    Yep, just got of the phone with tech support, seems my server is under
    repair and will be 'flakey' (that was the technical term used) until 6PM EST

    Well I guess it is impetus to host shopping. Mine is not a vanity site
    but my business. I have been with them for many years and I manage
    several other sites for clients. Have been very good in the past but
    recently but frustrated with their 'upgrades' that involve complicated
    server configs that has muck management and deployment. I'm looking at a
    Kentucky company Host Excellence. I think I'll move my dog site over and
    test them out. They seem to have good reviews.

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Sep 20, 2006
    #11
  12. Els wrote:
    > Jonathan N. Little wrote:



    >>>>> http://www.redskyibizans.com/
    >>>> I got so frustrated that I took a day and whipped this up
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/lu/
    >>> Gives a 500, on the entiresite, not just that directory.

    >> Try http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/lu/index.php

    >
    > Nice entirely blank page :)
    >
    > In the mean time the other link is working properly now though. I can
    > actually see pictures of dogs, while the original site doesn't show
    > any picture (or link) at all.
    >


    Now it is up! Guess it is going to be an up|down thing today! Great I am
    trying to sell my friend on this over the POS site she has and it will
    be a crap shoot if she can see it!


    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Sep 20, 2006
    #12
  13. Stuart Miller

    Els Guest

    Jonathan N. Little wrote:

    > Els wrote:
    >> Jonathan N. Little wrote:

    >
    >>>>>> http://www.redskyibizans.com/
    >>>>> I got so frustrated that I took a day and whipped this up
    >>>>>
    >>>>> http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/lu/
    >>>> Gives a 500, on the entiresite, not just that directory.
    >>> Try http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/lu/index.php

    >>
    >> Nice entirely blank page :)
    >>
    >> In the mean time the other link is working properly now though.

    >
    > Now it is up! Guess it is going to be an up|down thing today!


    Sounds like a good description of flakey ;-)

    --
    Els http://locusmeus.com/
    accessible web design: http://locusoptimus.com/

    Now playing: Dire Straits - Money For Nothing
     
    Els, Sep 20, 2006
    #13
  14. "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote in message
    news:10eb5$451147a6$40cba77f$...
    > Steven Saunderson wrote:
    >> On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 04:58:55 GMT, "Stuart Miller"
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> If I specify, for example, a 1600x1200 picture into a cell size of
    >>> 160x120, when does the compression take place? Does apache compress the
    >>> image before sending, or does the viewer's browser do the compression?
    >>> Or can this be controlled?

    >>
    >> The resizing is done by the browser. It is much better to supply a
    >> correctly sized image. If resampling is a bother I have a Win32 program
    >> that will resample and upload images. Check
    >> <http://stevensaunderson.com/pickup.htm> if interested.

    >
    > Since the OP was sent on OE, we can assume he has access to a WinBox. I
    > would recommend the freeware IrfanViewer
    >
    > http://www.irfanview.com/
    >
    > Really simple to run batch mode where you can resize and apply filter like
    > sharpen and even append to the filename if you wish to build all your
    > thumbnail in one click. You can select all the file with drag and drop so
    > it is ease for the technically challenged.
    >
    > --
    > Take care,
    >
    > Jonathan
    > -------------------
    > LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    > http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com


    Thanks for the information.
    I post from an xp box because I have it keep it running for the business.
    I have a file server running linux, and I have my own web server running
    linux/apache here as well.
    The large images are so that family & friends can edit and print the images
    for themselves. I just post them exactly as they come from the camera.
    The workload to the server of resizing images on the fly is not going to be
    significant, so one day I will figure out how to do that. But for now, I
    will continue to manually create the thumbnail size.

    Stuart
     
    Stuart Miller, Sep 20, 2006
    #14
  15. Stuart Miller

    richard Guest

    "Stuart Miller" <> wrote in message
    news:jU3Qg.554481$Mn5.250010@pd7tw3no...
    >I have a hobby site, with a lot of pictures of family and various other
    >hobby group activities. I have always used 'the gimp' to create small
    >images, about 160x120 to display with a link to the real image if the
    >caller wants to see it. This way I can cut the bandwidth usage and allow
    >the pages to load faster, particularly for dial up users.
    >
    > If I specify, for example, a 1600x1200 picture into a cell size of
    > 160x120, when does the compression take place? Does apache compress the
    > image before sending, or does the viewer's browser do the compression? Or
    > can this be controlled?
    >
    > I would be a help if I did not have to create small images of everything,
    > but if the compression is done by the browser then I am still transmitting
    > the entire image, so I am not creating faster loading pages.
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    > Stuart


    To load the page faster, you should use true thumbnails, not compressed
    versions.
    Resample the original to your desired size, as in your 160x120 case, then
    rename it to photo101-tn.jpg.
    Why do you want to display a 1600x1200 image knowing that your viewer would
    have to scroll either way to see it all?

    Define the area the same size as the thumbnail, or a tad bigger, and load
    the thumbnail into it.

    A simple editor like Irfanview can easily do the trick.

    www.irfanview.com
     
    richard, Sep 21, 2006
    #15
  16. Stuart Miller

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    "richard" <> wrote:

    > Why do you want to display a 1600x1200 image knowing that your viewer would
    > have to scroll either way to see it all?


    He did say.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Sep 21, 2006
    #16
  17. Stuart Miller

    Andy Mabbett Guest

    In message <10eb5$451147a6$40cba77f$>, Jonathan N. Little
    <> writes

    > I would recommend the freeware IrfanViewer
    >
    >http://www.irfanview.com/


    With few exceptions, I would recommend not automating the
    thumbnail-making process:

    <http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9611.html>

    --
    Andy Mabbett
    Say "NO!" to compulsory ID Cards: <http://www.no2id.net/>

    Free Our Data: <http://www.freeourdata.org.uk>
     
    Andy Mabbett, Oct 16, 2006
    #17
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