Validation help needed

Robert Baer · Oct 16, 2007

Have two problems with the following.
Firstly, the W3C validator website no longer recognizes previously
recognized DOCTYPE lines.
What is needed now?
Secondly,how can one fix the FRAMESET complaint (CSE validator)?

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=utf-8" >
<style type="text/css" media="all">
</style>
<meta name="copyright"
content="Copyright (C) 2007 Petro-Gas LiftTech LLC All rights reserved.">
<meta http-equiv="description"
content="Customer-oriented manufacturer & supplier of low pressure
gas well dewatering lifters." >
<meta http-equiv="keywords" content="lifter, pump, dewater, de-water,
marginal, marginal well, marginal oil well, marginal gas well, low
pressure gas well, dewatering, de-watering, efficent, economical, green" >
<title>Petro-Gas LiftTech LLC</title>

<FRAMESET rows="114, *" NORESIZE=yes BORDER=0>
<FRAME SRC="header.htm">
<FRAMESET COLS="179, *" BORDER=0>
<FRAME SRC="left_main.htm" NORESIZE NAME="left">
<FRAME SRC="right_main.htm" NORESIZE NAME="right">
</FRAMESET>
</FRAMESET>
</HEAD>
</HTML>

Robert Baer · Oct 17, 2007

Rob said:
Robert Baer schreef:

I have one problem with the following: it's not online.
So I had to copy/paste it to a local file and turn the validator on.
And guess what:

When I tried it, it *was* recognized. At least enough so the validator
could tell me it wasn't valid.

** Your experience differs from mine.
W3C eXplicitly stated that a doctype declaration was not present.
And about a year ago, it did not complain regarding the declaration.

And why wasn't it valid? Because you used a transitional doctype for a
html file with a frameset.
Didn't you know that there is a special frameset doctype?
You'll find it here:
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/present/frames.html

** No, i had no idea such "subterfuge" existed or was necessary.
To add to confusion, one source eXplicitlystates that the statement
is case sensitive, and that "HTML" must be in lower case.
Your reference displays upper case.

The right doctype, ofcourse.

Oh my, I hope this is not going to start one of those CSE-discussions
again.

Anyway, the frameset-complaint is probably because you put the frameset
in the <head>-section, where it doesn't belong.
Like my grandmother used to say: First the head, then the frameset.

You do realize that frames are not very popular these days, do you?

So people tell me; all i know is that a few sites i visit use
framesets, that they work.
Not knowing sh*t from shinola, i borrowed code from one of those
sites and discovered these complaints.
If there is a better way, i would need a working example to crib from.

Beauregard T. Shagnasty · Oct 17, 2007

Robert said:
Have two problems with the following.
Firstly, the W3C validator website no longer recognizes previously
recognized DOCTYPE lines.
What is needed now?

Full, correct doctypes?

Secondly,how can one fix the FRAMESET complaint (CSE validator)?

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">

This is not the FRAMESET doctype. It is a fragment of Transitional.

See: http://www.w3.org/QA/2002/04/valid-dtd-list.html

For Strict, Transitional, and Frameset:

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">

<FRAMESET rows="114, *" NORESIZE=yes BORDER=0>
<FRAME SRC="header.htm">
<FRAMESET COLS="179, *" BORDER=0>
<FRAME SRC="left_main.htm" NORESIZE NAME="left">
<FRAME SRC="right_main.htm" NORESIZE NAME="right">
</FRAMESET>
</FRAMESET>

If nobody has pointed you here yet, have a read:
http://www.html-faq.com/htmlframes/?framesareevil

Rob Waaijenberg · Oct 17, 2007

Robert Baer schreef:

Have two problems with the following.

I have one problem with the following: it's not online.
So I had to copy/paste it to a local file and turn the validator on.
And guess what:

Firstly, the W3C validator website no longer recognizes previously
recognized DOCTYPE lines.

When I tried it, it *was* recognized. At least enough so the validator
could tell me it wasn't valid.
And why wasn't it valid? Because you used a transitional doctype for a
html file with a frameset.
Didn't you know that there is a special frameset doctype?
You'll find it here:
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/present/frames.html

What is needed now?

The right doctype, ofcourse.

Secondly,how can one fix the FRAMESET complaint (CSE validator)?

Oh my, I hope this is not going to start one of those CSE-discussions again.

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=utf-8" >
<style type="text/css" media="all">
</style>
<meta name="copyright"
content="Copyright (C) 2007 Petro-Gas LiftTech LLC All rights reserved.">
<meta http-equiv="description"
content="Customer-oriented manufacturer & supplier of low pressure
gas well dewatering lifters." >
<meta http-equiv="keywords" content="lifter, pump, dewater, de-water,
marginal, marginal well, marginal oil well, marginal gas well, low
pressure gas well, dewatering, de-watering, efficent, economical, green" >
<title>Petro-Gas LiftTech LLC</title>

<FRAMESET rows="114, *" NORESIZE=yes BORDER=0>
<FRAME SRC="header.htm">
<FRAMESET COLS="179, *" BORDER=0>
<FRAME SRC="left_main.htm" NORESIZE NAME="left">
<FRAME SRC="right_main.htm" NORESIZE NAME="right">
</FRAMESET>
</FRAMESET>
</HEAD>
</HTML>

Anyway, the frameset-complaint is probably because you put the frameset
in the <head>-section, where it doesn't belong.
Like my grandmother used to say: First the head, then the frameset.

You do realize that frames are not very popular these days, do you?

Beauregard T. Shagnasty · Oct 17, 2007

Rob said:
Anyway, the frameset-complaint is probably because you put the
frameset in the <head>-section, where it doesn't belong.

Oh jeez. I didn't even notice that! <g>

Rob Waaijenberg · Oct 18, 2007

Robert Baer schreef:

** Your experience differs from mine.
W3C eXplicitly stated that a doctype declaration was not present.
And about a year ago, it did not complain regarding the declaration.

That's one of the reasons we don't like to copy/paste.
If you lead us to an online website there is a remarkably greater chance
that we see the same warnings and errors.

** No, i had no idea such "subterfuge" existed or was necessary.

A frameset doctype for a frames-page qualifies as subterfuge????

To add to confusion, one source eXplicitlystates that the statement is
case sensitive, and that "HTML" must be in lower case.
Your reference displays upper case.

Is that capital X above intended or accidental?
Because the lower case requirement is true for XHTML. Funny huh?

[snipped]

So people tell me; all i know is that a few sites i visit use
framesets, that they work.

That is not impossible, but there are a lot of pitfalls.
Please google for "Frames are evil".

Not knowing sh*t from shinola, i borrowed code from one of those sites
and discovered these complaints.
If there is a better way, i would need a working example to crib from.

I would respectfully suggest that you learn html instead of borrowing
code. It would make you less dependent on the quality of the borrowed
code (or, of course, the absence of quality).

Robert Baer · Oct 19, 2007

Rob said:
Robert Baer schreef:

That's one of the reasons we don't like to copy/paste.
If you lead us to an online website there is a remarkably greater chance
that we see the same warnings and errors.

* NOW, the W3C site does *not* complain about no declaration, and i made
no changes.

A frameset doctype for a frames-page qualifies as subterfuge????

Is that capital X above intended or accidental?

* Was intentional, used as a means to make greater emphasis to the
statement.
In my case, XTML is undesirable.

Because the lower case requirement is true for XHTML. Funny huh?

[snipped]

So people tell me; all i know is that a few sites i visit use
framesets, that they work.

Click to expand...

That is not impossible, but there are a lot of pitfalls.
Please google for "Frames are evil".

* Read some of that; need example of an easy way to do same thing
without frames.

I would respectfully suggest that you learn html instead of borrowing
code. It would make you less dependent on the quality of the borrowed
code (or, of course, the absence of quality).

I have too many other things that needs to be done; setting aside
300+ hours for learning HTML code is not an option.

rf · Oct 19, 2007

Robert Baer said:
Rob said:

Robert Baer schreef:

That's one of the reasons we don't like to copy/paste.
If you lead us to an online website there is a remarkably greater chance
that we see the same warnings and errors.

Click to expand...

* NOW, the W3C site does *not* complain about no declaration, and i made
no changes.

A frameset doctype for a frames-page qualifies as subterfuge????

Is that capital X above intended or accidental?

Click to expand...

* Was intentional, used as a means to make greater emphasis to the
statement.
In my case, XTML is undesirable.

Because the lower case requirement is true for XHTML. Funny huh?

[snipped]

So people tell me; all i know is that a few sites i visit use
framesets, that they work.

Click to expand...

That is not impossible, but there are a lot of pitfalls.
Please google for "Frames are evil".

Click to expand...

* Read some of that; need example of an easy way to do same thing without
frames.

I would respectfully suggest that you learn html instead of borrowing
code. It would make you less dependent on the quality of the borrowed
code (or, of course, the absence of quality).

Click to expand...

I have too many other things that needs to be done; setting aside 300+
hours for learning HTML code is not an option.

And I, for one, dont have more than this 15 seconds to help you out with a
last century technology frames page, which I wont as I don't do frames.

Bergamot · Oct 19, 2007

Robert said:
300+ hours for learning HTML code is not an option.

300 hours? I can't imagine where you came up with that number, but
you're way off.

In the amount of time you spend arguing about doctypes and the W3C
validator, you could probably learn enough HTML to fix your own problems.

BTW, since this is a discussion group, not a help desk, it is
unreasonable to expect us to simply spoon-feed you answers without a
little effort on your part.

Jonathan N. Little · Oct 19, 2007

Robert said:
I have too many other things that needs to be done; setting aside
300+ hours for learning HTML code is not an option.

Can't help you if you are that slow a learner, but normally a couple
spent with the tutorials at www.htmldog.com normally will get you what
you need to fix your problems...

Robert Baer · Oct 20, 2007

rf said:
Rob Waaijenberg wrote:

Robert Baer schreef:

Rob Waaijenberg wrote:

When I tried it, it *was* recognized. At least enough so the validator
could tell me it wasn't valid.

** Your experience differs from mine.
W3C eXplicitly stated that a doctype declaration was not present.
And about a year ago, it did not complain regarding the declaration.

That's one of the reasons we don't like to copy/paste.
If you lead us to an online website there is a remarkably greater chance
that we see the same warnings and errors.

Click to expand...

* NOW, the W3C site does *not* complain about no declaration, and i made
no changes.

Didn't you know that there is a special frameset doctype?
You'll find it here:
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/present/frames.html

** No, i had no idea such "subterfuge" existed or was necessary.

A frameset doctype for a frames-page qualifies as subterfuge????

To add to confusion, one source eXplicitlystates that the statement is
case sensitive, and that "HTML" must be in lower case.
Your reference displays upper case.

Is that capital X above intended or accidental?

Click to expand...

* Was intentional, used as a means to make greater emphasis to the
statement.
In my case, XTML is undesirable.

Because the lower case requirement is true for XHTML. Funny huh?

[snipped]

So people tell me; all i know is that a few sites i visit use
framesets, that they work.

That is not impossible, but there are a lot of pitfalls.
Please google for "Frames are evil".

Click to expand...

* Read some of that; need example of an easy way to do same thing without
frames.

Not knowing sh*t from shinola, i borrowed code from one of those sites
and discovered these complaints.
If there is a better way, i would need a working example to crib from.

I would respectfully suggest that you learn html instead of borrowing
code. It would make you less dependent on the quality of the borrowed
code (or, of course, the absence of quality).

Click to expand...

I have too many other things that needs to be done; setting aside 300+
hours for learning HTML code is not an option.

Click to expand...

And I, for one, dont have more than this 15 seconds to help you out with a
last century technology frames page, which I wont as I don't do frames.

Then *how* you do that kind of thing?
Have a sample i could look at / borrow?

Robert Baer · Oct 20, 2007

Bergamot said:
300 hours? I can't imagine where you came up with that number, but
you're way off.

In the amount of time you spend arguing about doctypes and the W3C
validator, you could probably learn enough HTML to fix your own problems.

BTW, since this is a discussion group, not a help desk, it is
unreasonable to expect us to simply spoon-feed you answers without a
little effort on your part.

Any "schools"?

Robert Baer · Oct 20, 2007

Jonathan said:
Can't help you if you are that slow a learner, but normally a couple
spent with the tutorials at www.htmldog.com normally will get you what
you need to fix your problems...

Looks interesting..how many hours does it take to wade thru all of it?

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Validation help needed

Robert Baer

Robert Baer

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Rob Waaijenberg

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Rob Waaijenberg

Robert Baer

rf

Bergamot

Jonathan N. Little

Robert Baer

Robert Baer

Robert Baer

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