Void Main?

[spinoza1111]

[...]
Is no stealing.. only copyright. US copyright law have no force
here.....
Then you'll get no more help from me.

Hi Look is different law here.. USA have stupid copyright law, not all of
world is US empire yet US want impose bad law on everyone. Please respect
the law to other countries, we are independent country see.....

It's international copyright law, not simply US copyright law.

Also if you hire in Nokia I am eager to get it. Expert C programmer..

Expert but you don't know about void in parameter lists? Hardly.

He can learn, whereas one usually finds that unix C programmers simply
refuse to learn Microsoft and prefer "hating Schildt".

I doubt it.


Your written English is *not* excellent, and your comprehension is not
that good as evidenced by your lack of understanding shown in this group.

Excuse me, I now teach English in China, and his written English isn't
perfect but it's better than most mainlanders. Their language is
radically different from English. It is monosyllabic and not as
inflected but with a correspondingly higher richness in individual
written characters and the use of four tones which Westerners rarely
master.

In fact, the successful mainland author Xiaolu Guo wrote a best-
selling book IN ENGLISH while studying beginning ENGLISH! "A Chinese-
English Dictionary for Lovers" is written in "Chinglish", which uses,
as does Mr Wang in part, the grammar of Chinese and the vocabulary of
English.

The book is perfectly expressive of a full range of thoughts and
emotions, and the corresponding stunt (writing Chinese as an
elementary student) is not possible.

You filthy little bastards are piling on to this guy because you're
fat American and Limey racists, and instead of doing your homework to
follow the self-appointed "thought leaders" just as you cocksuckers
allowed Seebach's document to destroy Herb Schildt's good name.

I suggest you knock it off.

Do you seriously think that people would want you working on their
software when you would not expect their intellectual property rights?

And you DARE to criticise his English when you make such an elementary
blunder as substituting "expect" for respect?

Based on your postings here I would expect you to take the money for
developing software then go and sell or give it to the competition.

What did he say? He said that he thought that US intellectual property
rights do not apply in mainland China, but based on working with
overseas Chinese in Silicon Valley, I'd say that he'd RESPECT them far
more than "native" Americans. Most American programmers give a flying
**** about intellectual property rights: IBM's programmers stole Linux
from the Santa Cruz Operation, and IBM as a corporation like Open
Source because it gives IBM access to what is, in effect, virtual
slave labor: the labor of the developers of Open Source.

Peter Seebach in this thread announces that he doesn't respect law,
but substitutes for it "respect" by which he means, as far as I can
determine based on his behavior, that everybody respect him, his
fashionable disease, and his lifestyle, while he reserves the right to
call his colleagues "morons".

Diaspora Chinese are in fact very careful to obey the laws of
countries to which they emigrate. In fact, the problem is with
Westerners. When I started work in the mainland, the cops made it
clear in a required face to face interview that I had to obey Chinese
laws. They did so because Brit thugs had started two wars and stolen
Chinese territory in the 1840s and 1850s so that drunken British
sailors could avoid Chinese punishment.

The seizure of Hong Kong worked out well, however, because the Chinese
who entered it OBEYED BRITISH LAW and did all the hard work to make it
what it is today.

Lay off Wang Yip, pukes.

 

[spinoza1111]

[...]
Is no stealing.. only copyright. US copyright law have no force
here.....
Then you'll get no more help from me.
Hi Look is different law here.. USA have stupid copyright law, not all of

world is US empire yet US want impose bad law on everyone. Please respect
the law to other countries, we are independent country see.....

Also if you hire in Nokia I am eager to get it. Expert C programmer..

     On the evidence available, this is an absurd overestimate
of your abilities.

lots of experience.. many work in cell phone area.. excellent English
written and spoken.

     On the evidence available, this is an absurd overestimate
of your abilities.

Please email to complete CV.

     No, thanks.  I'm not interested in hiring anyone who thinks
"Whatever I can't be prosecuted for" is "Right."

That is not what he said. He believes that US copyright law does not
apply in China.

 

[spinoza1111]

As a historical note (one definitely not aimed at Flash), I live in a
country that officially sanctioned copyright piracy throughout the
mid-late nineteenth century causing much aggravation to people like
Charles Dickens. The excuse given was generally along the lines that
acceding to international copyright standards would impede the
development of the then-young and developing country (now where have I
heard that recently?).

The country in question? The United States of America. I guess I should
stop being amazed by official hypocrisy, but I'm not.

    Hamish

Excellent point! When I was a kid in Evanston in the early 1960s, the
numerous used bookstores had many British classics illegally printed
in the USA!

 

[spinoza1111]

Wang Yip wrote:

On 24/12/2009 23:44, Keith Thompson wrote:
[...]
Is no stealing.. only copyright. US copyright law have no force
here.....
Then you'll get no more help from me.
Hi Look is different law here.. USA have stupid copyright law, not all of
world is US empire yet US want impose bad law on everyone. Please respect
the law to other countries, we are independent country see.....

It's international copyright law, not simply US copyright law.

Expert but you don't know about void in parameter lists? Hardly.

I doubt it.

Your written English is *not* excellent, and your comprehension is not
that good as evidenced by your lack of understanding shown in this group.

I always love it when my first impressions of someone are borne out. You
make Carmody seem almost normal at times. Try reading some of your
conceited nonsense back to yourself.

Good point. These people are thugs, Richard. They've found a new
target in Wang Yip. I hope he kicks ass.

I wouldn't put it past these bastards to try to get Mr Wang in trouble
in China. We need to be careful in this thread to avoid putting him in
the position of disclosing his location.

 

[spinoza1111]

Wang Yip wrote:

On 24/12/2009 23:44, Keith Thompson wrote:
[...]
Is no stealing.. only copyright. US copyright law have no force
here.....
Then you'll get no more help from me.
Hi Look is different law here.. USA have stupid copyright law, not all of
world is US empire yet US want impose bad law on everyone. Please respect
the law to other countries, we are independent country see.....

It's international copyright law, not simply US copyright law.

Expert but you don't know about void in parameter lists? Hardly.

I'm an expert. I don't know jack shit about void in parameter lists.
If I need to know things I look them up.

You give this Wang Yip character access to computer books, he'll
program rings around you is my guess.

 

[spinoza1111]

Wang Yip wrote:

On 24/12/2009 23:44, Keith Thompson wrote:
[...]
Is no stealing.. only copyright. US copyright law have no force
here.....
Then you'll get no more help from me.
Hi Look is different law here.. USA have stupid copyright law, not all of
world is US empire yet US want impose bad law on everyone. Please respect
the law to other countries, we are independent country see.....

It's international copyright law, not simply US copyright law.

Expert but you don't know about void in parameter lists? Hardly.

He can learn, whereas one usually finds that unix C programmers simply
refuse to learn Microsoft and prefer "hating Schildt".

I doubt it.

Your written English is *not* excellent, and your comprehension is not
that good as evidenced by your lack of understanding shown in this group.

Excuse me, I now teach English in China, and his written English isn't
perfect but it's better than most mainlanders. Their language is
radically different from English. It is monosyllabic and not as
inflected but with a correspondingly higher richness in individual
written characters and the use of four tones which Westerners rarely
master.

In fact, the successful mainland author Xiaolu Guo wrote a best-
selling book IN ENGLISH while studying beginning ENGLISH! "A Chinese-
English Dictionary for Lovers" is written in "Chinglish", which uses,
as does Mr Wang in part, the grammar of Chinese and the vocabulary of
English.

The book is perfectly expressive of a full range of thoughts and
emotions, and the corresponding stunt (writing Chinese as an
elementary student) is not possible.

You filthy little bastards are piling on to this guy because you're
fat American and Limey racists, and instead of doing your homework to
follow the self-appointed "thought leaders" just as you cocksuckers
allowed Seebach's document to destroy Herb Schildt's good name.

I suggest you knock it off.

Do you seriously think that people would want you working on their
software when you would not expect their intellectual property rights?

And you DARE to criticise his English when you make such an elementary
blunder as substituting "expect" for respect?

Based on your postings here I would expect you to take the money for
developing software then go and sell or give it to the competition.

What did he say? He said that he thought that US intellectual property
rights do not apply in mainland China, but based on working with
overseas Chinese in Silicon Valley, I'd say that he'd RESPECT them far
more than "native" Americans.  Most American programmers give a flying
**** about intellectual property rights: IBM's programmers stole Linux
from the Santa Cruz Operation, and IBM as a corporation like Open
Source because it gives IBM access to what is, in effect, virtual
slave labor: the labor of the developers of Open Source.

Peter Seebach in this thread announces that he doesn't respect law,
but substitutes for it "respect" by which he means, as far as I can
determine based on his behavior, that everybody respect him, his
fashionable disease, and his lifestyle, while he reserves the right to
call his colleagues "morons".

Diaspora Chinese are in fact very careful to obey the laws of
countries to which they emigrate. In fact, the problem is with
Westerners. When I started work in the mainland, the cops made it
clear in a required face to face interview that I had to obey Chinese
laws. They did so because Brit thugs had started two wars and stolen
Chinese territory in the 1840s and 1850s so that drunken British
sailors could avoid Chinese punishment.

The seizure of Hong Kong worked out well, however, because the Chinese
who entered it OBEYED BRITISH LAW and did all the hard work to make it
what it is today.

Lay off Wang Yip, pukes.

Mr Wang: do NOT use the following words freely: they are examples of
PROFANE speech: cocksucker, ****, shit. Kinda like saying "falling dog
poo" (è½ç‹—屎 | | lok6 gau2 si2) in Cantonese.

As to the rest of you, why don't you help Wang Yip with his English
instead of telling him it sucks, while making your own errors in your
own native language, such as substituting "expect" for "respect"? Many
of you clowns can't write or read complex English sentences of nesting
depth > 2, so don't go around admonishing foreigners about their
English. It's ugly and stupid.

Seebs, Kiki, et al.: Taikong suoyou de xingqiu saijin wo de pigu!

 

[Wang Yip]

[...]

Is no stealing.. only copyright. US copyright law have no force
here.....



Then you'll get no more help from me.

Hi Look is different law here.. USA have stupid copyright law, not all of
world is US empire yet US want impose bad law on everyone. Please respect
the law to other countries, we are independent country see.....

It's international copyright law, not simply US copyright law.

Also if you hire in Nokia I am eager to get it. Expert C programmer..

Expert but you don't know about void in parameter lists? Hardly.

lots of experience..

I doubt it.

many work in cell phone area.. excellent English written and spoken.

Your written English is *not* excellent, and your comprehension is not
that good as evidenced by your lack of understanding shown in this group.

Please email to complete CV.

Do you seriously think that people would want you working on their
software when you would not expect their intellectual property rights?
Based on your postings here I would expect you to take the money for
developing software then go and sell or give it to the competition.

Hi Buddy look I work in very advanced C project, all very difficult
features as templates, override virtual methods, overload.... and I
never see (void) parameter. You will oppose my experience but US
imperialist only....... Then **** you buddy..

 

[Seebs]

Hi Buddy look I work in very advanced C project, all very difficult
features as templates, override virtual methods, overload....

That would be C++, not C.

and I never see (void) parameter.

This makes it hard to believe you've worked on significant C.

You will oppose my experience but US
imperialist only....... Then **** you buddy..

Congratulations! You've ensured that people will not try to help you
even though you're clearly a newbie who desperately needs help.

So you might (if you think about it, and drop the feeling of
entitlement...) actually get a valuable lesson from this all -- if
you're asking people to spend their time and effort helping you
for free, maybe insulting them and claiming to be a super expert
when you're obviously a complete newbie isn't the best path.

-s

 

[spinoza1111]

That would be C++, not C.

C constitutes a subset of C++. In addition, C chauvinists claim that
templates and override virtual methods can be simulated.

This makes it hard to believe you've worked on significant C.

Because C was poorly designed, it exists in different manifestations.
The Standards did nothing about it because they were controlled by
greedy vendors who would not allow changes to be made lest those
changes force them to change their compilers.

Congratulations!  You've ensured that people will not try to help you
even though you're clearly a newbie who desperately needs help.

He's not a newbie, in all probability. Instead, because he writes
excellent Chinglish, you as a racist think of him as a newbie. If he's
a developer in mainland China, he works 24/7 and writes more code in a
month that you write in five years. I worked alongside developers in
mainland China and I know whereof I speak. He's possibly wrong about
the reach of American copyright, but he's right about most things.

So you might (if you think about it, and drop the feeling of
entitlement...) actually get a valuable lesson from this all -- if
you're asking people to spend their time and effort helping you
for free, maybe insulting them and claiming to be a super expert
when you're obviously a complete newbie isn't the best path.

When will you slobs understand that programming ability is independent
of using your favorite shibboleths? This thread is in fact a case
study in how low-level, lower middle class, half educated programmers
apply the racist way in which they think about English to code, and
vice versa.

I like the guy's English. "**** you buddy" is quite good.

 

[spinoza1111]

That would be C++, not C.


This makes it hard to believe you've worked on significant C.


Congratulations!  You've ensured that people will not try to help you
even though you're clearly a newbie who desperately needs help.

So you might (if you think about it, and drop the feeling of
entitlement...) actually get a valuable lesson from this all -- if
you're asking people to spend their time and effort helping you
for free, maybe insulting them and claiming to be a super expert
when you're obviously a complete newbie isn't the best path.

-s

This thread is a fascinating example of how you, dear boy, start shit
you can't finish. You patronized Wang Yip because he doesn't agree
with your main() shibboleth (where what main returns is only important
in crude operating systems) and because he "talks funny".

But based on my own experience, I'd say that he's way ahead of you.
You see, he has to work like a dog without access to technical
materials, and he cannot send hard problems on to the "real" experts
as you can. Instead, as a mainland Chinese developer, he's where the
buck stops. He's the First Maine Infantry on Little Round Top. He has
to produce code of a size and scale YOU cannot.

He came in here expecting international collegiality and MUTUAL
respect. Instead, you told him you don't care about law, and then
proceeded to disrespect him while speaking of respect, a respect by
which you mean admiring you because you "know" a bullshit standard.

 

[spinoza1111]

it is only 24 hours of plane rides and getting a visa away...




well, it is worth noting that, in that part of the world, ideals and values
are a bit different than in more westernized countries.

it can be noted that in many respects, the westernized ideals are far from
ideal (one can see at the same time a world of progress, and a world of
depravity and degeneracy...). yet, in the western world, it is common
practice to ignore ones' failings and ones' depreaved behavior, and at the
same time take a high stand over particular ideas that they themselves have
created.

A good example is how Peter tells Wang Yip that he doesn't care about
laws, but does care about "respect". This after Wang Yip invited us US
Imperialists to go **** ourselves. He did so because people told him
he was a newbie and not a C programmer because he didn't know about
the void main shibboleth.

A gentleman, which Peter Seebach isn't, would have responded initially
as if he'd misheard, and would not jump to conclusions, just as I
initially, as a gentleman, replied to Heathfield's attacks in 2000,
and Seebach's today, by sending them email in an attempt to resolve
differences.

It is true that if the gentleman's interlocutor persists in calling
him names, the gentleman will then fight back. Indeed, he will be
blamed for smashing up the joint if sufficiently provoked.

Real American men who unlike Peter are fighting for their country,
even if they're misled, in Afghanistan, have learned something he'll
never understand. It is that the Afghan tribesman will give you
respect and hospitality if he finds you dying on the road, while
Americans step over dead bodies on the street and laugh at homeless
men. The Afghan tribesman, Islamic peoples all over, and in my direct
experience Chinese will treat you with courtesy, hospitality, dignity,
and respect.

UNTIL YOU **** WITH THEM.

Whereas Americans, when you **** with them, will roll over and take in
the ass in all too many instances. They can't even get health
insurance.

for example, it is glorified to have a lewd and promiscuous lifestyle, and
yet condemn others for not paying them for every word they speak or write

Peter has told us that McGraw Hill did not offer him enough money for
"C: The Complete Nonsense".

down... it is almost as if people expect an entitlement for their own
vanity.

(and, yes, no fair maiden is safe when there are Americans around...).

No pretty boy, either. And, the sheep are nervous.

I say this while still being an American, as such...

the point here though is not simply to assume that everywhere, everything is
seen in quite the same way.

Damn right.

 

[spinoza1111]

WangYipwrote:

On 24/12/2009 23:44, Keith Thompson wrote:
[...]
Is no stealing.. only copyright. US copyright law have no force
here.....
Then you'll get no more help from me.
Hi Look is different law here.. USA have stupid copyright law, not all of
world is US empire yet US want impose bad law on everyone. Please respect
the law to other countries, we are independent country see.....

It's international copyright law, not simply US copyright law.

Expert but you don't know about void in parameter lists? Hardly.

I doubt it.

Your written English is *not* excellent, and your comprehension is not
that good as evidenced by your lack of understanding shown in this group.

Do you seriously think that people would want you working on their
software when you would not expect their intellectual property rights?
Based on your postings here I would expect you to take the money for
developing software then go and sell or give it to the competition.

Hi Buddy look I work in very advanced C project, all very difficult
features as templates, override virtual methods, overload.... and I
never see (void) parameter. You will oppose my experience but US
imperialist only....... Then **** you buddy..

Even if this guy is a "sock puppet" or a fraud, everything I've said
is true. Peter et al. are racist bullies, and Chinese developers work
harder and are smarter than American script kiddies who send problems
to others for solution. If "Wang Yip" is a sock puppet, Peter et al.
have treated him as if he's real, and they've drawn racist conclusions
from his English usage.

I don't think he is a sock puppet, however.

 

[spinoza1111]

Who cares about laws?

The question is not what is legal; it is what is respectful to other
people.  You're not.

What's respectful is culturally determined. For example, it's not
respectful in a Buddhist temple in Thailand to point your heels in the
direction of Buddha or the monks.

In Hong Kong, people tend not use what we think of as "thank
you" (m'goi or do-ze) when you pay for something. They figure you're
getting something.

This is why I care about law, and you need to learn that "respect" is
not the autistic scanning of texts for symbols you can "prove" mean
either lack of respect or incompetence.

C is such a poorly designed language that it exists in different
dialects and manifestations, only one of which is C99. For example, as
the "moderator" of clcm you did not know that the Texas Instruments
TI-89 calculator is indeed programmable in C and that it's heavily
used in mathematical education.

You hate "law" because "law" is the male superego, which is rapidly
disappearing in the west owing to emotionally or physically absent
fathers, who don't teach compassion, respect, or courage in defending
oneself.

 

[spinoza1111]

Well that explains a good deal. You are NOT programming in C but in e
derived and far more complicated language called C++.

And there really is no need to follow the example of some posters round
here who cannot keep civil tongues in their heads.

When Americans, Brits and other G-8 individuals deliberately use
Victorian language as a fashion statement and as a way of asserting
authority, such as "keep a civil tongue in your head", they fail in
more than one way to see how funny they are.

One reason is that America has exported "freedom", packaged as a
universal market and the dissolution not only of traditional cultural
restraints but also of socialism's restraints on dog-eat-dog, a
freedom which strangely, or perhaps not so strangely, seems like
license, libertinage, concubinage and plundering to many folk.

In fact, the original emergence of this dissonance can be located
rather precisely. It was circa 1970 within American and British hippie
culture in which male members of the counter-culture had to start
admonishing each other not to piss on the carpet, pissing on the
carpet having been in fact licensed by the universal degringolade of
1968.

You advise Mr Wang here to "keep a civil tongue in his head" as if you
were some sort of pukka sahib admonishing a waiter in Hong Kong circa
1890, calling said waiter "boy", since in fact and right here, Wang
Yip has had his professionalism and hard work discredited because he
doesn't know the void main theological shibboleth (in part because
computer books are hard to obtain in mainland China and in part
because it's useless bullshit) and he sounds funny.

I'd suggest that the incivility is yours. Self-restraint is no such
thing if it is dismissed so readily when your correspondent invites
you to **** yourself based on your giving offense. It's at that moment
that you endeavor to correct what's gone before and defuse the
situation, and this is what men do when in face to face encounters, as
opposed to these encounters which are supposed to be risk free,
because there's wisdom in the adage that an armed society (or one in
which everybody knows kung fu) is a polite society. Here, people seem
to think that at the first angry word emerging from a person, who has
been turned upon, is an excuse to regress to the ape.

 

[Flash Gordon]

That would be C++, not C.

I really do find it amazing that people can consider themselves experts
when they don't even know the name of the language they are programming in.

This makes it hard to believe you've worked on significant C.

Not knowing the difference between the two languages makes it impossible
to believe he's worked on any significant C project. If he tried he
would just end up wondering why his code did not compile.

Congratulations! You've ensured that people will not try to help you
even though you're clearly a newbie who desperately needs help.

Yes, he's even got the wrong country. I'm one of the British Imperialists...

So you might (if you think about it, and drop the feeling of
entitlement...) actually get a valuable lesson from this all -- if
you're asking people to spend their time and effort helping you
for free, maybe insulting them and claiming to be a super expert
when you're obviously a complete newbie isn't the best path.

He also needs to learn which language is which. Without that knowledge
he won't get very far. Without improving his English he will also find
it hard to deal with requirement specifications written in English (or
American) which will also limit him (if you can't understand the
requirement spec, you can't design, and requirements often use the
language in fairly sophisticated ways). Mind you, I would stand no
chance of getting a job in a non-English speaking country (or where
documentation was primarily written in another language) because I would
not sand a chance of getting any proficiency in another language.

 

[Keith Thompson]

Hi Buddy look I work in very advanced C project, all very difficult
features as templates, override virtual methods, overload.... and I
never see (void) parameter.

[...]

C and C++ are two different languages.

 

[Keith Thompson]

C constitutes a subset of C++.

[...]

"spinoza1111" is mistaken. C is *nearly* a subset of C++, and Wang
Yip has found one of the areas of inconsistency, namely the meaning
of empty parentheses in a function declaration.

 

[Kenny McCormack]

Hi Buddy look I work in very advanced C project, all very difficult
features as templates, override virtual methods, overload.... and I
never see (void) parameter.

[...]

C and C++ are two different languages.

Feel the love!

 

[Seebs]

C constitutes a subset of C++. [...]

"spinoza1111" is mistaken. C is *nearly* a subset of C++, and Wang
Yip has found one of the areas of inconsistency, namely the meaning
of empty parentheses in a function declaration.

I believe you'll find that, since this difference has actually affected a
poster to the newsgroup, that it is part of a global conspiracy against
Herbert Schildt. Clearly, a dire circumstance, when language features
are designed in the late 80s precisely to make naive readers think Spinny
doesn't know what he's talking about, when in fact, he understood both
languages quite well until time-travelling anti-Schildt conspiracy
theorists went back to the 1980s and introduced the incompatibility.

-s

 

[spinoza1111]

Hi Buddy look I work in very advanced C project, all very difficult
features as templates, override virtual methods, overload.... and I
never see (void) parameter. [...]

C and C++ are two different languages.

Feel the love!

One Love!